less than lethal projectile options?

any suggestions for less than lethal projectiles?

I'm looking for something that can be used indoors 10-25 feet with minimal or penetration.

I haven't bought the firearm yet, but would like to know my options...

I'm looking at some higher caliber revolvers or a shotgun for use while backpacking in bear country.

thanks again for all your help

If it's for bear protection the best thing would be to pack something that will alert them of your presence (they usually only attack if surprised or startled). However, packing non lethal ammunition would not help too much as it would only get them extremely agitated and cause them to possibly charge. I believe there were flares or bangers that were used to scare them off without killing them (if it's at night though, they most likely think you're prey so you'll need something to do significant damage -i.e. you'll have to pack a gun with (live?) ammo if camping in grizzly country).

http://www.bearsmart.com/backcountryManners/Deterrents.html

Just my 2 cents

Like what D@rk Messenger stated. But if going with shotgun, try checking out something like crowd control rubber projectiles.

http://www.securityandsafetysupply.com/product-firearms/Firearms.html

Hope you find what you're looking for and Enjoy!

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http://www.pepperball.com/

I'm not looking to use a rubber bullet on a bear... that could be bad

I'm just weighing my options for home defense and backcountry backpacking.

I will carry live ammo in the back country,
but would like something less than lethal for home defense.

Ideally, I'd like to load the weapon with 2 or 3 less than lethal, followed by lethal rounds if things really get out of hand in a "home invasion" type scenario.

I only have enough money for 1 firearm right now, and want to make the most of my money.

Thanks for the links, I'll check those out.

beautifully-stupid said:

I'm not looking to use a rubber bullet on a bear... that could be bad

I'm just weighing my options for home defense and backcountry backpacking.

I will carry live ammo in the back country,
but would like something less than lethal for home defense.

Ideally, I'd like to load the weapon with 2 or 3 less than lethal, followed by lethal rounds if things really get out of hand in a "home invasion" type scenario.

I only have enough money for 1 firearm right now, and want to make the most of my money.

Thanks for the links, I'll check those out.

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Get you a .44 mag then use .44 specials at home.
the S&W MOD 629 Mountain revolver is a great choice.
I have been wanting one of those myself. But can't justify
the cost as I have 6 mod 29 as it is.

I'm very hesitant to talk about any "non lethal" ammo. If you're in a situation where shooting is the last resort, then anything less than a serious stopper would not be wise. Shoot to stop or don't shoot.

That said, I second the 44mag. CCI makes a good shot load of #9 shot that is short enough to work in a 44spl. It would satisfy your non-lethal requirement.

Regular 44spl is deadly. Don't think of it as a less than lethal option. I've taken a deer at 18 yards with one shot of Silvertip from my Charter 44spl.

If you're serious about bear protection, I would consider nothing less than a 12ga with slugs. The scenario of stopping an attacking bear with a handgun is pretty much fantasy. Pepper spray is probably a better option, at least for an "impending" attack.

We've got a couple of Alaska hunters around. Maybe they'll pitch in.

beautifully-stupid said:

Ideally, I'd like to load the weapon with 2 or 3 less than lethal, followed by lethal rounds if things really get out of hand in a "home invasion" type scenario.

Click to expand...

I would counsel you to forget the idea of loading 2-3 "non-lethal" rounds followed by "lethal" rounds. This is a recipe for disaster. Reality comes at you in many different ways and this is a situation in which you've "overthought" the scenario. Pick good reliable ammo that you're very familiar with and load only them into your weapon.

"Home defense" and "needing some weapon during backcountry backpacking" sound like situations where you would want the most pwning weapon you can handle accurately. So go with some reliable gun, no non-lethal nonsense.

Money is an issue and you are of course right that less-lethal means might come in handy. So how about adding pepperspray (cheap) to your arsenal? That way you can grab the gun first, and once you have evaluated the situation and there is no need for lethal force you can resort to OC. OC usually should do the trick at short distances - pretty low fail rate, pretty low fatality rate, easy to use (stream sprays).

Speer shot loads sound like a bad idea. They would probably not be lethal, but they could certainly blind someone or injure them permanently, or injure them to the point where even a mediocre lawyer could argue that they are permanently disabled now, and guess who would be liable for the perps lifetime compensation. Cheaper to just give him your car keys and sign over the deed to your house.

If I HAD to do something like this, I MIGHT consider (for a revolver) getting a full power black power blank for the first shot, and real bullets thereafter. You can try letting them have the first shot center of mass to see if that will scare them off. If not, the situation has probably been escalated (by you taking a shot and the perp not running off) into a life and death situation, and you'll need to act accordingly.

If you try this with a revolver, be real careful aligning the rounds so you know the first one fired (which is NOT the one immediately behind the barrel) is the blank.

I personally think my "non lethal projectile" would be me projecting my voice and saying "I'm armed and ready to kill you if you come any closer...". Don't know what more is needed.

Just my 2 cents...

Maybe for overall "protection" in and around the home~backcountry and for "inexpensive[ness]," go with a lever action 30-30 rifle? :huh:

http://www.sshep.com/stun_gun.htm

taser interantional

If you are intending to defend yourself with a weapon then it should be with a weapon that is capable of stopping the assailant as quickly as possible (usually by killing them). A 12ga pump shotgun is an excellent choice for both home defense and bear protection while stomping around in nature. There are dozens of different types of loads available which makes the 12ga pump shotgun one of the most versatile firearms ever invented.

beautifully-stupid said:

any suggestions for less than lethal projectiles?

I'm looking for something that can be used indoors 10-25 feet with minimal or penetration.

I haven't bought the firearm yet, but would like to know my options...

I'm looking at some higher caliber revolvers or a shotgun for use while backpacking in bear country.

thanks again for all your help

Click to expand...

Depending on the state you live in (you should let us know for this situation), you may be opening yourself up to a can of legal whoop-*** on this one.

Beyond that, if you intend to use a handgun as a self-defense tool, it must be fully capable of doing its job immediately. If you want less-than-lethal for the home, get a taser -- so long as it's legal and you can't get sued by the intruder for using it. Even then, incapacitation is only temporary and depending on the intruder it may be much less effective than intended.

On another note, the best home defense weapon is a shotgun. A Remington 870 is an excellent tool for this purpose.

.

chevrofreak said:

If you are intending to defend yourself with a weapon then it should be with a weapon that is capable of stopping the assailant as quickly as possible (usually by killing them). A 12ga pump shotgun is an excellent choice for both home defense and bear protection while stomping around in nature. There are dozens of different types of loads available which makes the 12ga pump shotgun one of the most versatile firearms ever invented.

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I think you are right about that. Also, you would be less likely to shoot through the walls accidentally. That would reduce the chance of unintentionally hitting a family member.

Forget non-lethal options, other than pepper spray or a Taser. Using a firearm, even with rubber bullets or beanbags, legally usually counts as full deadly force. Laws surrounding the use of trick loads are pretty unclear, and probably would leave you open to major lawsuits and whatnot. Basically, from the legal perspective, if you're in a situation where you can legally use rubber bullets, you'd be better off using real ones. If you use a non-lethal load in a situation where you didn't feel it correct to risk killing them, you're already in the wrong.

From a practical perspective, less-than-lethal stuff is usually used for compliance or riot control. If some drug freak breaks into your house in the middle of the night with a crowbar and attacks you, your only consideration is stopping the threat as quickly and safely (to you) as possible.

If you're only concerned about home protection, get a 12 guage pump or semi shotgun. For bear defense I'd probably go with a powerful revolver. A midsize .44 would be handy, and also good for home use.

when I went backpacking at philmount scout ranch (bear country) two years ago. what I took for bear was industrial strength pepper spray. and no.... firearms was not allowed...

note I'm not endorsing company below. I took the strongest by percentage of capsicum (10%) and chose medium sized containers. my boy and I was the only ones in our group with pepper spray.

we took studious pre-cautions for keeping food smell away at night. there were several bear sightings while we were at philmont, but we never saw any.

here's a few bear encounter stories...

http://www.udap.com/testify.htm#testimonials

Here is a good article from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service about defending yourself from bears.

http://mountain-prairie.fws.gov/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf

beautifully-stupid said:

any suggestions for less than lethal projectiles?

I'm looking for something that can be used indoors 10-25 feet with minimal or penetration.

I haven't bought the firearm yet, but would like to know my options...

I'm looking at some higher caliber revolvers or a shotgun for use while backpacking in bear country.

thanks again for all your help

Click to expand...

art, thanks for that article. coming from dept of fish & wildlife sure gives it credibility!

Look up Glaser safety slugs for home defense.

:buddies:


Edit: I should clarify that I don't use Glaser safety slugs and don't especially endorse them. I've played with them and the energy dumped into a burnt side of beef was obviously higher than other rounds I used. YMMV.

I agree with others. They know better than you do that your tv isn't worth their life. If you tell them you're armed with deadly force and they still come at you, they're interested in more than stealing your tv. Put them down.