Why are we doing this

Hi all,

In another thread a member asked the honest good natured question why I'm looking into a certain mod.

Not wishing to read too much into the simple query I pondered some time the implication of spending so much time, effort, money etc.

To stay within the boundry of CPF I wanted briefly to share something one of my favorite authors Frank Sheed wrote:

"It's incredible how long science has succeeded in keeping men's minds off their fundamental unhappiness and its own very limited power to remedy their fundamental unhappiness. One marvel follows another -- electric light, phonograph, motor car, telephone, radio, airplane, television. It's a curious list, and very pathetic. The soul of man is crying for hope of purpose or meaning; and the scientist says, 'Here is a telephone' or 'Look, television!' -- exactly as one tries to distract a baby crying for its mother by offering it sugar sticks and making funny faces."

It's so easy to get obcessed with anything of interest. But then, it's not fun.

Jim

Fun is the key. The day I stop having fun with flashlights is the day I stop buying flashlights. Time in precious and it should not be devoted to something that is not enjoyable.

The really deep questions - where did we come from? where do we go? - have been pondered for a long time to the point of diminishing returns. Science - excepting the far edges of cosmology and abstract theories no one understands - does not touch these deep issues; but it does provide a string of new things. Given the finite attention span of all humanity, that is simply what those of us who like logic have left to look at. Those who don't like science will be looking at Entertainment Tonight...

The Answer is 42.......


.....admittedly, we don't know what the *question* is, but.....

I like my useful and purposeful incan mods just fine. It was fun figuring some of them out. I don't have any of the super duper incans. I do have an 1166 set up that I'd like to try one of the Osram lamps in. (can't remember which one. it takes 11 cells.) Even if it only ran for five minutes it would be a pleasant distraction. Of course, it would be nice to reveal that those eight orange dots on the other side of the pond were four deer instead of the four 1200 lb saber toothed wild boar or the four 9' tall Big Foots I imagined.

Some applied science and technology is soothing to the mind. The jingle for Entertainment Tonight promotes an uncomfortable dullness to the mind followed by a rapid scramble for the remote.

Da da da da da daaaah *shudder*.

jimjones3630 said:

Hi all,

In another thread a member asked the honest good natured question why I'm looking into a certain mod.

Not wishing to read too much into the simple query I pondered some time the implication of spending so much time, effort, money etc.

To stay within the boundry of CPF I wanted briefly to share something one of my favorite authors Frank Sheed wrote:

"It's incredible how long science has succeeded in keeping men's minds off their fundamental unhappiness and its own very limited power to remedy their fundamental unhappiness. One marvel follows another -- electric light, phonograph, motor car, telephone, radio, airplane, television. It's a curious list, and very pathetic. The soul of man is crying for hope of purpose or meaning; and the scientist says, 'Here is a telephone' or 'Look, television!' -- exactly as one tries to distract a baby crying for its mother by offering it sugar sticks and making funny faces."

It's so easy to get obcessed with anything of interest. But then, it's not fun.

Jim

Click to expand...

It's not fun? Then you should go drink some grape Kool Aid again! LOL!

Speculating that you are talking about the high power Osram bulb as the mod project we have been talking together about, I'm hoping this is a reverse psychology "trick" post, or else you are more akin to the real Jim Jones that I would have suspected. LOL!

Or perhaps you are exemplifying another of Sheed's apologies:

"One way to prevent conversation from being boring is to say the wrong thing."

Click to expand...

That is an interesting quote, however morosely morbid. It incorrectly posits a "fundamental [human] unhappiness" as the basis for Sheed's "Myth of Sisyphus" despair that human creativity, science, play, and exploration are but meaningless distractions.

Creating, discovering, and contributing new things, ideas, relationships, art, etc., carry with them an authentic joy that is akin to children playing with eyes wide open to the wonderment of the world. Nature is filled with endless examples of animals playing for nothing more meaningful than the joy of play & discovery.

I do not call my passions: "obsessions," nor do I assume they are designed to distract me from Sheed's theoretical drumbeat of fundamental unhappiness. Having grown up in Catholic grade & high schools, I now reject the haranguing soliloquy of man's innate wickedness, evil, and fundamental unhappiness. They are not the human failings that must be religiously transformed before an annointed entrance is allowed into "The Kingdom of God" that Rome would have everyone believe. That is the evil and manipulative distortion of God by His supposed (and self-appointed) apostolic successors.

In short, I enjoy flashlights for the joy of playing with flashlights.

Here's how I see it....

Activities like flashlight collecting, watching TV, experimenting, playing video games, etc, are all surrogate activities. Technically they are unnecessary to our survival. These activities are there for the health of our brains. There was a time in human history, where man spent every ounce of effort, to survive. At the end of the day, if you were still alive, then your hard work rewarded you with the greatest gift, life. In todays world (by that I mean civilized 1st world economic driven countries), surviving requires only obedience. Anyone can get a simple job, and shelter and feed themselves with minimal effort. When simply surviving required GREAT effort, the satisfaction of working hard to be alive was great. At the end of the day, the mind was content, and happy, and required little to no further entertainment to be happy. A days work and our survival has become so separated, that there is no direct satisfaction, no feeling of content, so we seek out other activities to fill the void. For some people, achieving the highest level in an online game, fills the void. For me, I temporarily filled the void by writing a guide to lithium-ion-incandecent-tactical-flashlights. Some aspire to become president because for them, only such an achievement, will fill the void. Everyone needs to fulfill their power proccess, some people are more content to drink a beer and call it a day, while others frenzy through life trying to accomplish everything. We're just a buncha goofy animals if you ask me. When it comes to this kinda discussion, there is no right, no wrong, there are only ideas. Have a good idea.

I have my hobbies to keep my sanity...Knives, zippos, flashlights, they all give me somethgin to think aboiut, and read about and spend money on in my spare time...This world is a crazy place, and if I dont have somethgin to do that takes my mind off of all the bad thigns Ill go crazy, its that simple for me...Plus if I can get a usefull tool in the mean time its a 2 for 1...I often have to stop myself from getting this to just "show off" Often people hobbies turn into a "show off contest" I try to just get thigns that make me happy, if I buy a new knife and I have a smile on my face for a week its worth it to me, and to be able to use that knife often is just a bonus...Same goes for lights, although I find that I have not purchased a new flashlight in a while...I already have way more than I "need" but dont we all, lol...

mdocod said:

Here's how I see it....

Activities like flashlight collecting, watching TV, experimenting, playing video games, etc, are all surrogate activities. Technically they are unnecessary to our survival. These activities are there for the health of our brains. There was a time in human history, where man spent every ounce of effort, to survive. At the end of the day, if you were still alive, then your hard work rewarded you with the greatest gift, life. In todays world (by that I mean civilized 1st world economic driven countries), surviving requires only obedience. Anyone can get a simple job, and shelter and feed themselves with minimal effort. When simply surviving required GREAT effort, the satisfaction of working hard to be alive was great. At the end of the day, the mind was content, and happy, and required little to no further entertainment to be happy. A days work and our survival has become so separated, that there is no direct satisfaction, no feeling of content, so we seek out other activities to fill the void. For some people, achieving the highest level in an online game, fills the void. For me, I temporarily filled the void by writing a guide to lithium-ion-incandecent-tactical-flashlights. Some aspire to become president because for them, only such an achievement, will fill the void. Everyone needs to fulfill their power proccess, some people are more content to drink a beer and call it a day, while others frenzy through life trying to accomplish everything. We're just a buncha goofy animals if you ask me. When it comes to this kinda discussion, there is no right, no wrong, there are only ideas. Have a good idea.

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I like that analysis. Much wisdom there about real survival related satisfaction, vs. modern job fulfillment today.

The other aspect which is interesting to examine, and has always been available once humans developed language and sentience is that of creativity, play, and fulfillment in work or projects....all beyond survival or filling a power void.

I think all of us have had experiences of childlike joy and fulfillment while working on a project, creating/enjoying a work of art/music, exploring nature, doing something that contributes to others, etc.. We often describe those time as "having gotten lost in the work/activity."

No matter how hard or strenuous the demands in those settings, these other activities can be just as satisfying as the hard work of animalistic survival you described from centuries ago.

LOL!...Jeff, I had no idea that so many people collected Zippo lighters. I have not seen one of those since my dad used his for his Lucky Strikes which ultimately killed him from lung cancer. I guess it has sort of a bad memory....but I can still smell that zippo lighter fluid when I close my eyes.

MacTech said:

The Answer is 42.......


.....admittedly, we don't know what the *question* is, but.....

Click to expand...

Uh, oh! *quickly erases "chicken pot pie"*

Lux, I could not agree more with your comments: "Having grown up in Catholic grade & high schools, I now reject the haranguing soliloquy of man's innate wickedness, evil, and fundamental unhappiness. They are not the human failings that must be religiously transformed before an annointed entrance is allowed into "The Kingdom of God" that Rome would have everyone believe. That is the evil and manipulative distortion of God by His supposed (and self-appointed) apostolic successors."

Those of us who visit CPF and the other "flashlight", knife, watch, etc. forums are keeping our brains alive with interests outside those that earn our daily bread. I have learned a tremendous amount here, which gives me pleasure, in addition to any satisfaction associated with the purchase of "things". Learning is for me a joy, and I suspect it must be so for many others who continue to develop very technical solutions to lighting problems.

Beethoven wrote a glorious Symphony, No. 9, entitled An die Freude: Ode to Joy. It has been my inspiration since I first listened to it 48 years ago.

To Joy,

HAK

Throwing some light in a world of darkness is no small accomplishment.

Wow,

Interesting posts and personal insights.

I know a man who knew Frank Sheed and he talks about a man who was at utter peace within himself and had such a radiance he affected those around him. He spent his life in service to others. That man resembles anything but "The Myth of Sisyphus." Nor did he advocate the idea of absurdity of exsistance.

Quite the contary he found meaning to his life and a profound happiness that affected everyone who came into contact with him.

I wouldn't slurr someone's name based on my personal predilections nor attack anyone's religion especially when I'm happy with my life.

If someone is happy they know it. Sheed didn't say the pursuit of science is anything. I am not saying the pursuit of science, electronics, hobbies is anything good bad or indifferent, meaningful or meaningless.

What he said is "It's incredible how long science has succeeded in keeping men's minds off their fundamental unhappiness..."

100 years ago mankind lived, worked and existed much as mankind did for the prior 1000 years. It's only in the last 100 years mankind has gone from riding in wagons to riding to the stars.

My experience is one hobby after another I've gone through losing interest and going to another. And that is in part because I have the time to do so. All of us have only so much time.

This if fun now and that's all I am looking to get out of this. To make a bussiness, a living out of it would not be fun and I don't think there is anything intrinsicly good or bad with making a living out of it.

If you are looking for some "meaning to life" reading that elaborates on what I touched on there.. read the unabomber's manifesto. I don't entirely agree with it, nor his suggestions to readers, but reading it answers some of the big questions, and helps you understand your existence in a modern world much better.

With all due respect to you, and The Order of Saint Benedict, I paid my dues to say, feel, and believe what I stated in response to your post. I also know a lot more about Frank Sheed and his writings than you might assume.

For the record, I am not challenging him (or you) as a person. Nor am I intimating anything about his (or your) deeds, personal contentment, interpersonal relationships, or accomplishments. Rather I responded to the words that you quoted on their own merit.

While a man is not the sum of his writings, such words are none-the-less a window into his soul. They can be examined and challenged for their own sake, especially once foisted into the public domain.

Sheed, like many erudite and respected religious scholars is looking for ways to expose what they believe is the existential moral bankruptcy of science...especially because it has supplanted the power of religion in modern times. Thus far, they have not been sucessful at reducing the results and influence science has subsumed from their own ranks. Their earthly doctrines of original sin and permutations of subjective good vs. evil constructs have no practical intersection with modern science.

As a result, they attempt to diminish science by assaulting it on scales of moral relativism and eternal salvation. Sheed suggests that science successfully distracts man from what he believes is his fundamental unhappiness. The tenet of "fundamental unhappiness" traces back to the Garden of Eden when man turned his back on God. Eating the forbidden apple forever brought "Original Sin" and its sequelae upon mankind, and which of course cannot be resolved by science.

As I said earlier, much mischief, manipulation, and dogmatic interpretation has been foisted upon mankind by Rome over the last 2,000 years regarding his relationship to God, as if it is really under their providence. How many centuries back in time do you wish to go while examing the Church's domination of man's soul and property in the name of God? I'll take science over apostolic domination of mankind any day.

While it is not a wise idea to start a philosophical/theosophical topic on a pagan flashlight forum, it is especially provocative with your endorsed quotation of Sheed's assumed "fundamental unhappiness" of man. If you are going to start a post like that, you need to be prepared to take whatever you get in response. Maybe next time try a more innocent quote from one of my favorites, that at least portends to relate to CPF:

St. John of the Cross said:

If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.

Click to expand...

MacTech said:

The Answer is 42.......


.....admittedly, we don't know what the *question* is, but.....

Click to expand...

The question is "What is 9 x 6?", and the universe works anyway.

mdocod said:

If you are looking for some "meaning to life" reading that elaborates on what I touched on there.. read the unabomber's manifesto. I don't entirely agree with it, nor his suggestions to readers, but reading it answers some of the big questions, and helps you understand your existence in a modern world much better.

Click to expand...

Yeah, often the [fringe] fanatics have an underlying perverse & profound logic.

I can just imagine the average FBI agent trying to read this, let alone understand it or what they were dealing with.

He certainly took a different approach to exposing the effects of science than Sheed's ilk.

Originally Posted by MacTech
The Answer is 42.......


.....admittedly, we don't know what the *question* is, but.....

stonehold said:

The question is "What is 9 x 6?", and the universe works anyway.

Click to expand...

:huh2:

I would think the question is "What is 7 x 6".

If the question was 9 x 6, the answer would be 54, would it?

Actually the answer to "What is 9 x 6" or "What is 7 x 6" would more accurately be:

The number Nine (or Seven). The Letter X. The number Six.

Maybe the question should be: What is the multiplication product of the number seven multiplied times the number six?

Or easier yet:

What is the atomic number of molybdenum?

stonehold said:

The question is "What is 9 x 6?", and the universe works anyway.

Click to expand...

...and it works because 6 x 9 does = 42 if you calculate in base 13, and that means....