Surefire, L1... and now L2!?!

First off, i know everyones gona be telling me ML1... but hold up for a min...

Ok... so I'm intrested in getting a good EDC flashlight.. I work for paramount pictures and well a maglight just doesnt cut it when your in a dark stage trying to look for a LRE (work for a subdivison of IT) and I'm the type of person who when he goes out to get something (like my benchmade knife) i try to get the best i can afford you know?

anyways.. I was looking around and I am just digging the look of the surefire L1.. but the whole current spec of 1.1 low and 22 high scares me that it wont be able to light up when say there is ambient light or if im trying to shine something that is a good 25 feet up.

Got the catalog and saw that the new 2007 version is gona be 10/65 lum... what do you guys think? How much light is that anyways? I mean in comparison? I read that 20 lum is roughly what a 2D cell.. reason im holding off on getting an ML1 is 1 the new L1 is gona be the same price (no price increase) 2 i wonder if perhaps the new L1 can be modded to have even better specs or am i just daydreaming?


aye... well any input would be great... oh btw i sent an email to surefire to see when its gona come out they told me Aug 1st for anyone's that intrested

Re: Surefire, L1..

I bet that if you got a current L1 you would be happy with it besides the impending Cree upgrade. Unlike normal flashlights, the TIR lens system of the current L1 does not waste any of its light on spill. It is hotspot ONLY. Thus, it can appear as bright as a 60 lumen Surefire incandescent when you compare the two hotspots.

Lumen ratings rate overall output, not output that most people compare when looking between two lights, the amount of light and size of the hotspot. The L1's hotspot is a bit wider but almost as bright as a 60 lumen Surefire incandescent, and thus gives the appearance of being as bright while putting out less overall light. The new L1 will feature an "improved" TIR lens that gives the light some spill, thus "wasting" light, depending on your purposes.

On the other hand, if Surefire's latest estimates of when the new L1 will come out is true (that they'll be out in a month or two) then maybe you should wait. Or buy one now and one later and then sell the one you like least. Surefires retain much of their market value even when used, as you can sell them here close to what you bought them for. OpticsHQ offers a huge discount to CPF members, too.

If you don't understand what I mean by "hotspot" and "spill" I can draw a diagram for you.

Re: Surefire, L1..

I have an L1 and I think that you would be happy with it; I agree with carrot that there are no "wasted" lumens coming from this light. It all depends how much ambient light there is. I have found that if it is dark enough to have to use a light, the L1 is sufficient.

When it is really dark, you would be surprised how much light 1.1 lumens is. I find 1.1 lumens is actually too much light if I need to get up in the middle of the night and my eyes are adjusted to the darkness.

If you decide on the L1, make sure to get the F04 beamshaper too. It turns the spot into a flood to make an extremely versatile light.

Hope this helps, and yeah, I dig the looks and form of the L1 also.

Re: Surefire, L1..

The L1 provides a very useful amount of light. The other great thing about it is that it only uses one cell, and lasts for 4 hours on high. If you use this light daily, you'll appreciate not having to change batteries all the time.

Re: Surefire, L1..

I would think when you're looking around on a stage trying to find something, that you would need a little more spill (flood). The tight spot of the L1 means you have to scan the light around a lot more when trying to see the whole picture.

I like the L1, but in short, I think it's almost useless for me if I didn't have the F04 beamshaper. In fact, I can't really think of the last time I used it without the beamshaper.

Re: Surefire, L1..

I have and use an L1 daily. Great light. Most of the time I use the beamshaper (around house, outside, etc) but do take it off from time to time. For example, the dog was having a fit a couple nights ago. I used the L1 with beamshaper but did not see anything (could not see anything with the big floodlight on the house either), but when I removed the beamshaper I spotted a neighborhood cat hidden in the trees.

Great light, plenty bright. I may consider the new one also, but so far it's my favorite of all lights.

Re: Surefire, L1..

I have SF L1 and love this light.
Look these photos for comparison:
http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/109/173513.html
Length of room - 25 meters (~75 feets).
This link also can be useful:
http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/109/189483.html

Re: Surefire, L1..

I like the L1 so much I have three though it's more than I really should afford.
* One old style UW0J ML1 with McR18,
* one new style SSC ML1 (great throw with good optic spill (tapering off) like the Kroma is and new L1 will be), and
* one old style stock one with optic and nice tint I keep on a E1 body with a McE2S two stage switch.
If you are looking at distant things, spill is often too dim to help, so it is wasted lumens. I used to use the stock current L1 for running at night because the low was enough to illuminate the road or sidewalk in a dark area without drawing attention to myself, and plenty bright with a big even spot good for medium to medium far distance on high. Not a tight spot, so good size area is illuminated at medium distance on out.

I liked the current type so well for night time running that I consider getting one again (SSC changed the beam a LOT even with stock optic) but I don't run at night any more.

A MILD diffuser (the F04 is strong) would be a great addition to the current light for all uses.

Re: Surefire, L1..

to be honest, if i could only own one light it would be the l1, yeah, i would rather have it than my McG PD, why? because its a bit longer and makes it very easy to use, and the low is the perfect ammount of light for when your eyes have adapted, and the high IS NOT 22 lumens its much more closer to mid 30's id say,and is very bright much brighter than you expect i dont know how they did it its got to do with the tiros optic im sure which doesnt waste any lumens at all its a thrower when its on high thats for sure. the light is VERY durable, and a work of art through and through. man, this makes me want one really bad. must... wait... for... new... model...

Re: Surefire, L1..

Personally, I would be reluctant to buy a light when a major upgrade is only a couple months away. But either way, the L1 has useful low & high settings with low about right for dark adapted eyes and high for general use. The pocketable size, long runtime & ability to run on a single recahargable cell are great, and it is tough as nails. However, to me the intense hotspot make the current factory L1 not a very practical light without a beamshaper, and I really don't like to use the beamshaper since it makes the light less pocketable.

I just got my old L1 back from Milkyspit with a Seoul emitter. It is not only brighter, but it has a fantastic beam with a nice combination of hotspot and spill. This is now my favorite EDC light.

Re: Surefire, L1..

Gwaihir said:

...
Look these photos for comparison:
http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/109/173513.html
Length of room - 25 meters (~75 feets).
This link also can be useful:
http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/109/189483.html

Click to expand...

Excellent comparison photos. Thanks!

Re: Surefire L1..

I agree. Comparing my stock L1 to my other lights, including an HDS U60, it is much closer in brightness to 40 lumens. Appears almost as bright as 60L.

mossyoak said:

...and the high IS NOT 22 lumens its much more closer to mid 30's I'd say,and is very bright much brighter than you expect. I don't know how they did it its got to do with the tiros optic I'm sure which doesn't waste any lumens at all ...

Click to expand...

Re: Surefire L1..

first off thanks Gwaihir for the comparision, and everyone else.

Yeah dont get me wrong guys i am defenatly planning on getting a defuser (something tells me its not gona be the F04). Truthfuly i dont think i would be using it soo much at night when i just wake up..to go .. ::insert thing you do at night::.. but if i do.. dont you guys think that with a defuser that that should be enough for on low to be able to keep your nightvision? with the new version i mean the 10 lums?

oh and i wonder what milky might be able to do with a light like this new L1..hummm...

Re: Surefire, L1..

they fo4 diffuser is a very good diffuser, and 10 lumens is pretty bright i tihnk its kill your night vision.

Re: Surefire L1..

10Lumens will kill most of your night vision even with a diffuser. The F04 will still have a bit of a hot(ter) spot, it is not 100% diffuse. I am happy with the SSC version non diffused. If I get a new current L1, I might make a stick-on diffuser spot just over the center 6-7mm or outer 2-3mm (I'd need to experiment) to get a little bit of spill, but it would need to be re-applied whenever I need it unless I can find a slim sleeve to hold it in.

Milky can swap the resistor in the tail switch to lower the 10L low back to a lower level. Other than that, there may not be much he can do beside put in a higher flux bin emitter and/or a different tint.

Great comparison Gwaihir.

Cobra1027 said:

first off thanks Gwaihir for the comparision, and everyone else.

Yeah don't get me wrong guys i am definitely planning on getting a diffuser (something tells me its not gonna be the F04). Truthfully I don't think I would be using it soo much at night when i just wake up..to go .. ::insert thing you do at night::.. but if i do.. don't you guys think that with a diffuser that that should be enough for on low to be able to keep your night vision? with the new version i mean the 10 lums?

oh and i wonder what milky might be able to do with a light like this new L1..hummm...

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Re: Surefire L1..

Milky can swap the resistor in the tail switch to lower the 10L low back to a lower level.

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that might actually do it... even bringing it down to half that to say 4 or 5 lums should be enough no?

Blindasabat said:

10Lumens will kill most of your night vision even with a diffuser. The F04 will still have a bit of a hot(ter) spot, it is not 100% diffuse. I am happy with the SSC version non diffused. If I get a new current L1, I might make a stick-on diffuser spot just over the center 6-7mm or outer 2-3mm (I'd need to experiment) to get a little bit of spill, but it would need to be re-applied whenever I need it unless I can find a slim sleeve to hold it in.

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and what do you mean by that? you mean you want to place the defuser a bit farther from the lense right? what about mounting it on a railway with a sleave and that way you can adjust it move it closer and farther away.. problem is mounting it ofcoures.. the only think i could think of is zipties i dont have access to metals and and tools to do all that fun jazz

Re: Surefire L1..

Cobra1027 said:

that might actually do it... even bringing it down to half that to say 4 or 5 lums should be enough no?

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I think that may still be too much. This is just MY opinion, but I think 3-4 lumens may already be too much under most circumstances. If you want to preserve night vision, put a red filter over a 10L LED. You will get about 1-2L of red light. White LEDs are narrow band light emitters with very little red.

Cobra1027 said:

and what do you mean by that? you mean you want to place the diffuser a bit farther from the lens right? what about mounting it on a railway with a sleeve and that way you can adjust it move it closer and farther away.. problem is mounting it of course.. the only think i could think of is zip ties i don't have access to metals and and tools to do all that fun jazz

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I was going to put the diffuser film directly on the lens using sticky film I have. I don't think distance from the lens does much (assuming moving it less than a cm back and forth) except for what your mounting mechanism will do to block some light.
I already have this film on a couple of lights I have now, and the effect is minimal, but for slightly smoothing the beam out. It helps the ringyness of a P1D CE.
I was thinking for a more easily removable solution, to make an F04 style sleeve, just thinner using a thin hard rubber sleeve, but with the film glued or heat soldered (melted) to the top edge. Most likely glued.

Re: Surefire, L1..

carrot said:

Unlike normal flashlights, the TIR lens system of the current L1 does not waste any of its light on spill. It is hotspot ONLY.

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While I agree that the beam is collimated, I wouldn't call it "hotspot ONLY". Especially when used indoors, there's still plenty of sidespill and light scattered around that you can see outside the hotspot really well. It's definitely not like those Inova lights with the pencil-like beam.

I've been very happy with my L1, and even more so after I started using a diffuser lens on it (thanks to rscanady!). I expect the new version to be even better.

Re: Surefire, L1..

Get an SF L2. LuxV all perfect beautiful white wall 'o light flood, plus an integral 2 stage tailcap.
L2, L2, L2!

Re: Surefire, L1..

Cobra,

What do you think would be most useful in a light? Being able to point and shoot, lighting up a specific area - OR - hitting the button and illuminating a whole room?

I ask this because L1 is very good at being a discrete light. It doesn't have much side spill, so you can light up a specific area without disturbing much else. This works well in situations like night fishing/hunting, checking in on a room where people are sleeping, etc.

If you need to go into a large props room or whatever and want to illuminate everything infront of you, a different light like the L2, L4, or a Fenix might be a better choice. The FO4 diffuser works great, but the 22+ lumen high with the F04 won't compare to 100+ lumen wall of light that the the L2/L4's Lux5 produces.

Of course, the lower output means that it draws a lot less power from it's battery, which may or may not be important to you.

Just something to think about.