Prometheus        
Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: Farkle Cosmetic Update

  1. #1
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mesa, AZ. USA
    Posts
    4,706

    Default Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Farkle Cosmetic Update:

    The cosmetic issue we are calling "farkle" (Foreign object/Sparkle) is a small crystal like pattern sometimes seen around the center of the LED Lens on a Luxeon Star flashlight.



    This appears in luxeon star flashlights from several different manufacturers. The above picture was taken by 'Klaus' of the CPF.

    First, I want to say that this is strictly a cosmetic issue. It does not affect the beam of the flashlight and it does not affect the durability or lifespan of the LED.

    Farkle is produced when an adhesive residue left over from LED manufacture is deposited on the underside of the NX05 optic. Often just a light brushing of the LED and optic is all that is required to produce the farkle image in the optic. The optic magnifies any small object placed on the rear of the optic so that the farkle appears several times actual size.

    For proper light transmission, the NX05 optic must be placed either very close or flush with the LED housing. Therefore, farkle is a common result.

    Variations in the amount of farkle is common because of irregularities in the amount of adhesive residue. The adhesive has the consistency of uncured silicone adhesive.

    Cleaning of the LED prior to insertion does reduce the instance of farkle to some degree but does not eliminate it.

    Arc Flashlight has been testing several different types of cosmetic enhancements for our line of Luxeon Star (“LS”) flashlights.

    Peter Gransee

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* B@rt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Land of Tulips and Philips
    Posts
    10,213

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Originally posted by Gransee:
    My home computer monitor is a pricey 19" Sony E500 I bought pre-Arc. All Trinitron monitors have several horizontal wires across the screen that I have learned to ignore over time.

    Peter
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah I hate those lines too... Although I just have a 200ES, It is one of the few things that bother me. [img]graemlins/bluesigh.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/bluedead.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* Sean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    IL, near St. Louis MO
    Posts
    2,944

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Originally posted by Gransee:
    My home computer monitor is a pricey 19" Sony E500 I bought pre-Arc. All Trinitron monitors have several horizontal wires across the screen that I have learned to ignore over time.

    Peter
    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just bought a sony computer with matching sony 17" monitor and those wires dirve me nuts! I would have never bought it if I would have known about the wires ahead of time. [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img]

    But I am getting used to it. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

  4. #4
    *Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    7,447

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    The Trinitron wires don't bug me at all...in fact I'm happy when I get to leave my laptop with it's old, tired LCD and use my dad's (Trinitron) Viewsonic with 2 tiny horizontal wires.

  5. #5
    Flashaholic* GeoffChan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    908

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    I've got a Sony G400 19", those wires don't annoy me that much.

    Geoff

  6. #6
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    4,874

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    When I first bought my monitor, I knew about the wires and was "looking" for them. Now I think absolutely nothing about them and never notice them at all.

  7. #7
    Flashaholic* snakebite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    dayton oh
    Posts
    2,384

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    it is an everyday thing here to explain the lines on a trinitron/diamondtron.
    so many folks think they are a defect that i have an aperture grille from a scrap tube hanging on the wall to show the wires.i even get complaints on repair jobs about the lines.
    those werent there before!
    it can be fun to explain the fact that all of these tubes have them whether you see them or not.

  8. #8
    *Retired* The_LED_Museum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Federal Way WA. USA
    Posts
    19,418

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    When I first fired up my new Dell with Sony monitor, I saw those lines/wires too, but I learned to ignore them pretty quickly. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

  9. #9
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    171

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Craig!!?!! Great to have you back! How ya doin'?

  10. #10
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    218

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Thanks, Peter, for explaining that 'farkle' thing. That's what i was referring to in another thread, and i was hoping for an explanation as i had no idea what it was. Mine covers one half circle around the LED. I also see that very thin black line mentioned in this thread (caused by the wire). It never bother me 'cos it's only seen if you shine your light on a white wall at a close distance, and it is so, so faint.

  11. #11
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mesa, AZ. USA
    Posts
    4,706

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Oops. I got home and realized I have a E400 not a E500. I think the 500 is the 21 incher and I have the 19 incher. If I am gonna say something, it better be correct.

    Good to see you Craig!!! Do you feel up to going to the SHOT show this year?

    Peter

  12. #12
    *Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    7,447

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    He he...another problem people have form switching from shadow mask to aperature grill is that the AG is flat but they're used to staring at convex CRTs but the brain has learned to conpensate so the image looks concave [img]graemlins/icon15.gif[/img]

    I have just the opposite--the 2 screens I use the most (An LCD and Trinitron) are flat so when I go to school or what not I feel like I'm staring into a beach ball (Fingerprints! Oh the fingerprints) trying to work.

    Hmm...Farkle...(Quick check of LS) don't see any on mine.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Seattle, WA area
    Posts
    2,128

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Why does my mind think of a comedic character, Sparkle Farkle, every time farkle is mentioned?

    Maybe I'm dating myself with that question, eh?

    (Might as well, no one else will ... [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] )

    Anyway, am I the only one who remembers the Farkle family?

    (Frank and Fanny Farkle and their kids: Frank Jr, Mark Farkle, Simon and Gar Farkle, Flicker Farkle, and Sparkle Farkle, and their friend and trusted neighbor Ferd Berfel.)


  14. #14
    Flashaholic zackhugh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    303

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Peter,

    Thanks for the explanation. I saw a reference to that yesterday and sort of assumed that that's what farkle was. I have a very thin line across the beam of my LSH-P. I didn't notice it at first and it's really only visible at certain distances. To me it's a minor issue and I'm pleased with my LSH-P.

    Steve

  15. #15
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mesa, AZ. USA
    Posts
    4,706

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    The thin line that actually shows up in the beam is caused by the two LED bond wires. One on each side of the die. These are small gold wires that connect the LED chip ("die") to the lead frame wires on the outside of the LED package.

    If you look into the optic, those wires will shows up as two gold strands. They are usally on direct opposite sides of the middle.

    Your LS would not work without these wires. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

    Peter

  16. #16
    Flashaholic zackhugh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    303

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Whoops. Reread your original post on how the farkle does not affect the beam pattern. Sorry for my confusion. I don't ordinarily look at much besides the beam pattern and light output. For me, the anodizing and dust in the optics aren't issues. In fact, my KL3 had a slight crack on the optics but I ignore this because it doesn't seem to adversely affect the light.

    Thanks for explaining the line. And don't I feel stupid. No sense complaining about something that causes the light to run!

    Steve

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* Wits' End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Remote NEast Minnesota, next to Lake Superior
    Posts
    2,317

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Whenever I see someone on a tricycle I think of R+M L-in. But I was born in '60 so some of the humor was beyond me. But most of it I got.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mesa, AZ. USA
    Posts
    4,706

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    My home computer monitor is a pricey 19" Sony E500 I bought pre-Arc. All Trinitron monitors have several horizontal wires across the screen that I have learned to ignore over time.

    If you look at your typical Nichia powered LED, you will also notice bond wires. Some of the other brands just have a single bond wire. Interestesting that the two top LED manufactures both choose to use dual bond wire setups?

    Peter

  19. #19
    Flashaholic* sunspot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Graham, NC
    Posts
    2,708

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    You are not alone Tomas. I remember the red headed Farkle family.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* Klaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,998

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    LOL - but let me bring this back to topic

    @Peter - not wanting to question your experience and explanation on the farkle subject - but what made me concerned (besides cosmetics) where some comments on the original thread you "loaned" my picture from [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    QUOTE: Its not glue. Basically what happened is that who ever put the unit together had very bad judgement of using herculean strength when screwing the lens holder on to the LS. The force of the lens pushed down on the LS causes the silicon inside to seep out and go onto the botton of the NX-05 lens. This will also shorten the life of the LS. If anyone does not believe this is true, get a LS that can be thrown away and force the NX-05 lens onto the LS. ENDQUOTE

    This is from a guy (ARC mania - think he´s NOT related to your company though) who showed up on CPF only lately but posted quite impressive mods using Nichia and Luxeon LEDs which led me to believe that he knows what he is doing / posting.

    I don´t want to question your explanation though and my ARC LS doesn´t show such farkle so there is no real issue between us but I also want to mention that PK emailed me that he would like to have a look at the unit the pic was taken from.

    Best regards

    Klaus

  21. #21

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    I see the same on the three mods that I have i.e. with Lambda Illuminator, LGI and MadMax. I have taken out the collimator and washed it thoroughly and I still see those scratches even without the LED being there. I had also noticed that those were getting progressively worse on my MadMax. I had assumed that twisting motion to turn the light on and off had caused the edge of the collimator to rub against the led and had scratched the collimator inner edge. I thought this was one of the reason many people are using the tail-cap switches with datzip's creations.

    - Vikas

  22. #22
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    US
    Posts
    7,796

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    i always thought the "farkle" (that is a very cool word by the way) was actually the thermal goo...

  23. #23
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Mesa, AZ. USA
    Posts
    4,706

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Klaus- I hope you don't mind me using your picture. I hosted this copy so it doesn't use your bandwidth.

    I too was very concerned for the health of the LED when I first noticed the farkle. My thinking was that the silicone was obviously placed there for a reason and moving it might affect the delicate parts inside.

    I spoke to alway helpful Sal Cassirino at Lumileds about this and this is what I learned:

    - The material is a silicone gel. It is two part and does cure from a liquid to a gel. It is placed inside the dome to facilitate optical coupling between the die and the dome lens.

    - It is normal to find a small amount of residue on the outside of the black bezel. Pressing on the lens may cause a very small amount of oozing (Sal said he observed it with a microscope) but should not be appreciable.

    -Pressing on the bezel certainly should not cause any silicone to ooz out of the dome. The bezel is designed for relatively large loads and transfers any pressure past the dome, die, cup and aluminum slug directly to the PCB.

    Btw, All Arc LS designs do not apply any downward pressure to the dome of the LED. We press the NX05 optic firmly against the bezel only.

    - If some how some of the silicone was removed from inside the dome, a bubble would result near the edge that would interefere with coupling in that area. It would not damage the die.

    - Clean up of the residue is fairly difficult because of it's oily, sticky nature. Care must also be taken with the nearby dome. Lumileds is looking for solutions we might use to clean this area. We (Arc) have also come up with several methods that reduce (but not elimenate) the amount of residue.

    See my notes above for other farkle thoughts.

    Hope this helps.

    Rothrandir- Thanks! Merri actually used the word to describe something else and I coopted it to describe this artifact. I noticed later that the word could also be broken up into Foreign object/spARKLE.

    Peter Gransee

  24. #24
    *Flashaholic* Rothrandir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    US
    Posts
    7,796

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    ...she uses words like farkle?!

    so that is what i was talking about. i thought is had thermal properties though.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Off Topic, but could not resist [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    R+M L-in

    "Lookit the moon...GOTCHA!" "Eh, Eh, Eh..."

    [img]graemlins/twak.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/twak.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/twak.gif[/img]

    "ooooooooooow" &gt;falls off bench&lt; [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    Back on topic now.

  26. #26
    Flashaholic* Klaus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,998

    Default Re: Farkle Cosmetic Update

    Peter,

    you are very wellcome to use that pic whatever way you like - I was just kidding using the word "loaned" and was putting that smiley behind it to make that clear - I´m really happy I used "loaned" and not "stolen" which even with smiley might have made a somewhat lame joke [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    And thanks a lot for your in-depth follow-up explanation

    Best regards

    Klaus

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •