Which Mag for tri/quad cree

Hey,

I'm unsure what mods to do with my Maglites... I have a 6D ROP with FM 2.5" head, a 2D ROP and am going to get a 12AA -> 3D Fivemega one if he does a second round. The 2.5" head will go on the FM 3D if I get that, so the 2D and 6D will be standard heads.

Now, I want to make the 2D(6AA) or 6D into a tri or quad Cree, but i'm wondering which host would be best for that job. They both will be 7.2v so I guess it just depends on how much current draw a tri/quad cree will have and the possible runtimes. What would you guys recommend?


Thanks in advance

KrisP said:

Hey,

Now, I want to make the 2D(6AA) or 6D into a tri or quad Cree, but i'm wondering which host would be best for that job. They both will be 7.2v so I guess it just depends on how much current draw a tri/quad cree will have and the possible runtimes. What would you guys recommend?

Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

Don't forget the 8AA-2D adaptor as well to give you 12 (alkalines) or 9.6 (NiMH / Eneloops) volt options, and I think that's a better option.
The way to think about it is in terms of power (watts) or energy (watthours).
A quad Cree will draw up to 14.8 watts at full blast (1amp times 4 Crees times 3.7volts drop over each cree = 14.8W).
Eight Eneloops can supply about (2000mAH at 1.2volts each) 19watthours. So that's an hour or so of runtime when you factor in some convertor losses. Much longer at lower outputs as available from Fatman or Shark/Remora converters.
The Tri-Cree will be 25% longer runtime, while the 6 AAs will be 25% shorter on either the Tri- or Quad-Cree.
I like both 3 or 4 Cree mods, you can use bigger reflectors in the Tri-Cree but obviously more ouput from the Quad.
The 6D with alkalines will be quite a handful, but I don't know the runtime- you need to find their rating at 1amp discharge.
Hope this helps.

Can someone point me toward where these parts can be purchased? Thanks!

Remora / Shark combo, LEDs, heatsink, battery adaptor and reflectors all available at Sandwich Shoppe.
Mags all over.
Alternatively the Fatman (and other) drivers can be had from Georges80.

Shark driver is definitely the way to go for multi LED setups.
I have one running 4 X P4 and just about to start a 3 X P4, both run from 2 X 18650 in 2 C mag bodies. The remora looks interesting if you want stepped output.
Norm

ICUDoc said:

Don't forget the 8AA-2D adaptor as well to give you 12 (alkalines) or 9.6 (NiMH / Eneloops) volt options, and I think that's a better option.
The way to think about it is in terms of power (watts) or energy (watthours).
A quad Cree will draw up to 14.8 watts at full blast (1amp times 4 Crees times 3.7volts drop over each cree = 14.8W).
Eight Eneloops can supply about (2000mAH at 1.2volts each) 19watthours. So that's an hour or so of runtime when you factor in some convertor losses. Much longer at lower outputs as available from Fatman or Shark/Remora converters.
The Tri-Cree will be 25% longer runtime, while the 6 AAs will be 25% shorter on either the Tri- or Quad-Cree.
I like both 3 or 4 Cree mods, you can use bigger reflectors in the Tri-Cree but obviously more ouput from the Quad.
The 6D with alkalines will be quite a handful, but I don't know the runtime- you need to find their rating at 1amp discharge.
Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to anywhere that can bore out the Mag to fit a 4 cell wide pack. Or is there certain 2D->8AA adapters that will fit a stock host?

All batteries i'll use will be NiMH.

How would the shark driver be used? It says 11.5v or 22v output. Four Crees at 1A would be 3.7*4=14.8v. On the 22v setting, won't that cause issues or do in need a resister to drop the voltage down to 14.8v? Or is 22v fine as long as the current is limited to 1A? These current driven devices confuse me

On the 22v setting, 7.2v input would be too low, wouldn't it?

The Shark is a constant current step up driver. It will raise the battery voltage to whatever level is needed to maintain the LED current you set. The 22V is just the maximum. For example, I just finished building a quad Cree with a Shark driver with an external pot. With the pot at full, about 1 amp to the LED, it puts out around 12.8V. When I dim it down to minimum, it only puts out around 10.5V. And it would go lower than that, but I am using a 2D-8AA battery pack so the 10.5V is the point at which trying to go any lower causes Vbatt to be more than Vled so the Shark goes direct drive at that point. If I replace one of the cells with a dummy, the Shark puts out around 10.2V with the pot at full minimum and the LEDs are no longer glowing. One issue to watch for is too low battery voltage. If you go much below about 1/2 of the LED voltage, the Shark starts having trouble outputting the full set current. I have successfully run a Shark with 4 Crees off of a 5 cell Magcharger battery pack, so 6 cells should be fine. BTW, all the newer Shark drivers from the Shoppe now come with the jumper already installed for the 22V max output.

Well said Don- I just wrote a long reply almost identical to that, but it has disappeared!
OUTPUT power= input power + losses.
If output is 14 watts input is about 17 watts.
17 watts divided by 7.2 volts from the batts is 2.4 amps of input current, which is fine (up to 3+ is allowed).
So the 7.2 volt batt arrangement isn't too much of a problem until the batts are nearly empty...

If you are looking for a simple starter Tri-Cree, I have made many Tri-Cree lights using 3D host direct connected to 3 Crees in parallel. As long as you have a decent heat sink this works great and is about as efficient as you can get. Besides being simple it's also cheaper (no converter board).

Building a 2D MAG mod using the PTS2



For those that have not done it and call your self a flashaholic, I say you should all have one of these!



They rock. The amount of work requires some drilling and cutting of plastic, thermal epoxy and soldering, but this work is very minor compared to the great results.


The parts list consists of

3x IMS17(?) reflectors (thesandwichshoppe http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/index.php)

3x UBIN lux3 but can be any 3 of the same.

1x maxflex (taskled.com)

2x 3AA to 1D adapter (series 3.6V) lightmania

1x pts2 for D MAG light (theshoppe http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/index.php)

Thermal epoxy arctic alumina or arctic silver thermal epoxy

Wire

Small heatsink for maxflex (see maxflex documentation)



The work is easy. 2-3 hours



The cost is kind of high for all the parts, but considering that you will have the light FOREVER, is high on my list.



Reasons for this MOD.



The light from the MAG is awesome. Since you have the volume of 3x LUX3 LEDs. You end up with reasonable hotspot, side spill and good throw.

The light uses AA cells. This is a huge advantage for emergencies. You can use AA rechargables. In emergencies AA alkaline run out last and emergency services gives AAs out for use and AA batteries sell out from Walmart and Target last.

D batteries sell out first and can be hard to find in emergencies.

The current using the Maxflex driver can be scaled up or down as needed.

Heat management is scalable using Maxflex dirver.

The PTS2 provides great heatsinking and the MAG body is a great heatsink.

Light levels of this now TriLUX MAG are adjustable in 5-8 levels. This gives you good combinations of runtime and brightness that is adjustable on the fly.



You can set the notification for the Maxflex to not over discharge AA NMIH cells beyond a user selectable level.

Batteries can be made to last from 1-30 hours or more using AA 2500mah cells with some user light management.


There have been combination of battery problems with the Maxflex, but in this combination, the Maxflex driver works really well.

I also like the 6x AA combination because this combination requires no boring of the 2D MAG.

If you like 2C size, you can do roughly the same MOD, but the battery choice is 18650, a sleeve so the battery does not rattle and you have to modify the tailcap so the batteries fit, but there are threads on this.

Ok... So far it looks like the 2D Mag is the one for me to use for this mod, i'll just leave the 6D as the long lasting ROP.

I'm looking at getting the following, please let me know if it's the right gear
- Shark step up/boost board (http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?products_id=721)
- Remora UI board for selectable output (http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?products_id=988)
- 4 Cree P4 U bin on star or circle? (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3417)
- 4 x McR-17XR reflectors (or do I need the model with "19" in it?) http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=48_50_64&products_id=725
- Arctic alumia heatsink epoxy (http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=48_39&products_id=171)
- Perfect Emitter Sink2 Tri/Quad PES - D (http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=48_53&products_id=909)

Is there anything else I need?

I found this example and substitued my numbers in and it seems OK:

Battery near dead state: 6 cells * 1V/Cell = 6V minimum.

Cree 1000mA: ~ 3.7V/LED = 3.7V * 4 = 14.8V

Input output ratio 14.8/6V 2.5:1 or 1:2.5 depending on direction.

Efficiency 85% (For this example)

========================================
Substitute into the Power in = Power Out equation.

Power in = Power out =
Vin * Iin = ( Vout * Iout ) / effficiency

Substituting we have 6V * Iin = (14.8V * 1A) / 0.85

6v * Iin = 17.41

Solving for Iin we have Iin = 17.41W / 6V = 2.9A.

Click to expand...

Also! If I wanted to make a floodlight version, is there a Cree reflector/optics to make it flood VERY evenly or would I need to swap to SSC's?

I have a TL-EX5 (SSC) in my Minimag without the reflector and love the near perfectly even light but would like to make something a fair bit brighter that gives the same even output.


Thanks

Be aware, the "Perfect Emitter Sink2 Tri/Quad PES - D" will not work with the Cree LED, it is for Luxeon emitters only. What you want is the Perfect XR19 Cree Heatsink - D to use with 3 or 4 Cree emitters. Also, you would use the emitters only with this heatsink, not the emitter mounted on a star or circular board. The emitter is the rectangular piece with the LED dome shown in the middle of the photo in your link. The Shoppe has a Cree + McR17XR Bundle package with both the LED and the reflector.

I suspected that, but didn't know which was the correct heatsink. Thanks for clearing that up for me Will the Cree + McR17XR fit on the Perfect XR19?

I'm having trouble finding the LED's not mounted to boards. I can only find those Sandwich Shoppe ones and they don't supply much info on what LED's they actually are, like the tint.

I was also looking at these as they seem like an easy way to mount a star instead and could be a much better option if I wanted flood from a SSC.

The quad Cree setups I've built were done with that heatsink and the McR19XR reflectors. since the 17's are smaller in diameter, they should fit with no problems. I don't know what kind of beam the 17s put out but the 19s give a pretty good throw with plenty of spill for my uses, but that's one of those personal preference type of judgements.

Thanks for all your help, DonShock

I've had a change of heart though... I really want to make it a quad Seoul P4 Mag now as my goal is now flood. I have the ROP and will have a 100W 3D soon for throw, so this can be my floodlight.

Now, i'm trying to work out if I should go for a heatsink that still takes straight emitters or one that takes stars.

[edit] Having a positive slug has told me that using stars would be a much easier option... Now I just need to find a heatsink that takes 4 stars.
[edit 2] It seems that there's only heatsinks for tri stars, not quad stars. Very confused now.

Yep, stars are easier to work with but are too big to fit 4 in a stock mag head. I think the Seoul P4 emitters are the same size as the Luxeon emitters, so they may work with the PES2 heatsink. But I don't know for sure. If you are looking for flood, three would probalby be more than enough. I did three Lux3 stars in a PTS2 sink before I did the four Crees in a PXR19. The four Crees was a definite improvement in throw, but the extra brightness was not all that noticable when used indoors where I was using the flood more.