My APC Back-UPS ES500 did NOTHING when I had a blackout

Sinjz · Jun 14, 2007

Had a black out last night and when the power went down, so did my computer. The UPS did NOTHING except that it started to BEEP! !@#$%^&. The beeping lasted about half an hour. Power was out for about 4 hour. When I finally plugged everything back in, I now get a "replace battery" warning beep from the UPS. It didn't signal anything before the blackout. BTW, my multimeter reads ~13.3 volts on the SLA battery, when I removed it. Is that about right? Anyway, should I upgrade, find a replacement battery or find someway to revive this battery? I repeat it didn't even give me a minute to shut down properly.

I assume it's all about the battery, but if my UPS is just too crappy, somebody let me know. :sigh:

Handlobraesing · Jun 14, 2007

Sinjz said:
Had a black out last night and when the power went down, so did my computer. The UPS did NOTHING except that it started to BEEP! !@#$%^&. The beeping lasted about half an hour. Power was out for about 4 hour. When I finally plugged everything back in, I now get a "replace battery" warning beep from the UPS. It didn't signal anything before the blackout. BTW, my multimeter reads ~13.3 volts on the SLA battery, when I removed it. Is that about right? Anyway, should I upgrade, find a replacement battery or find someway to revive this battery? I repeat it didn't even give me a minute to shut down properly. I assume it's all about the battery, but if my UPS is just too crappy, somebody let me know. :sigh:

Battery voltage only tells relative capacity. I had a few of those modern oversized power strip style UPSs and I've never liked them much.

Get something that looks like this:
http://www.upsforless.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=30

Some of them have a lower VA rating, but don't be fooled. These older units have a bigger battery pack in most cases and since battery can produce more usable power when they're not heavily loaded, twice the battery capacity offers more than twice the runtime.

My 450VA is a BackUPS from 1992 that I bought used and got new batteries for. It has a 12v 12Ah battery pack. Yours has 7.2Ah battery pack.

Eugene · Jun 14, 2007

APC are usually good UPS units so I'll bet its a bad battery. Mine lasted about 5 years but I haven't gotten around to replacing it yet. Some of them have a fuse on the battery leads, check and make sure you have power at the circuit board and not a blown fuse. You haven't see a fuse blow until you see a spark and 200A fuse on a big ol UPS pop.

eluminator · Jun 14, 2007

Am I allowed to chuckle, or would that be mean

13.3 volts sounds good to me. If you are measuring it when it's not under load, you might try loading it. I would hook it up to the computer and pull the plug from the wall and see what the battery voltage is.

Of course I don't have a UPS for my computer, and don't see the need. You might want to try a different load. Maybe some lamps would do.

I'd also check the wire connections going to the battery.

Sinjz · Jun 14, 2007

Handlobraesing, my computer doesn't draw that much power. It's a pretty low end machine.... I dooubt I'm drawing more than 300 watts, so my UPS is suppose to be good enough. I'm not looking for long runtime. I just want 5 minutes, so that the computer can shut itself down properly. Beside don't have the $50 spare to spend on this right now. Of course it looks like the battery is gonna cost me $30, so maybe I will look. :ohgeez:

When I pull the plug from the outlet, I get one dying gasp of a beep and NO power at all.

Can't even get a clock radio to light up.

Chuckling is mean!!! :mecry: Of course it might just be that constant beeping going on right now. I gotta shut my computer down cause this UPS is giving me a FREAK'IN headache!!!! :banghead:

I remember reading something awhile ago about someone using a car battery or something as his UPS. Anybody remember that? Link?

Anybody know of a single place I can get a new battery for this and my toothbrush to consolidate the shipping cost?

orionlion82 · Jun 14, 2007

well, you are limited by input power from the battery and output power from the inverter.

SLA batteries are the way to go and a car battery might not be the best solution.
perhaps you can research manufacturers and look for more AH?

i am betting your inverter is shot though. that or the regulation circutry...

i hear the APC models made for buisnesses and industry are far above howmowner/consumer grade ones, so i would look into those.
i have heard good things about them from reputable people in comparison to the "everyday joe" ones

allso, your computer power supply might be the culprit. (known as a PSU)
most models made by fortron, emacs, zippy, silverstone, and PcP&c are known to be above most in terms of quality.
(some antecs are good and some are not, so that is a trickier matter)

Handlobraesing · Jun 14, 2007

Eugene said:
APC are usually good UPS units so I'll bet its a bad battery. Mine lasted about 5 years but I haven't gotten around to replacing it yet. Some of them have a fuse on the battery leads, check and make sure you have power at the circuit board and not a blown fuse. You haven't see a fuse blow until you see a spark and 200A fuse on a big ol UPS pop.

The most economical thing maybe to get a UPS with the biggest battery you can find. This usually means you have to buy a higher VA capacity unit since they don't make lower VA rating one with a big battery pack.

If you bought it based on acceptable runtime out of the box, you'd need to replace the batteries about every other year. The battery lives in harsh conditions. The temperature of battery pack while on continuous trickle charge is around 100F.

If you significantly oversize the unit for considerably more runtime than you want, the batteries can deteriorate significantly more, but still provide a performance adequate to your need.

snakebite · Jun 14, 2007

that unit may be subject to a recall.
seems they catch fire!
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml03/03068.html

Handlobraesing · Jun 14, 2007

snakebite said:
that unit may be subject to a recall.
seems they catch fire!
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml03/03068.html

Huh? That's the CS, not ES.

Torque1st · Jun 14, 2007

Using the on/off switch on the front of my APC UPS unit does a battery test every time it starts up. It has been a few years since my battery was replaced and it occasionally fails the battery test. My APC UPS unit has worked flawlessly thru a couple of recent power outages tho.

I have three UPS units. I use two on my computers and one older low power unit for the cable modem and router.

Lite_me · Jun 15, 2007

I run 4 UPS's. Two on Hi-def TV's, one on some components (VCR, DVR, Receiver, DVD) and one on my main PC. I've not had any problems with them. The oldest one is about 10 yrs. old. I recently changed the battery in that one. It wouldn't power the equipment more than a few minutes anymore. I have more power outages than normally acceptable on my street. I've complained and it has been getting better. Bad thing about that is, I don't need my flashlights as much anymore. :thinking: :shakehead

LuxLuthor · Jun 15, 2007

Sinjz said:
Had a black out last night and when the power went down, so did my computer. The UPS did NOTHING except that it started to BEEP! !@#$%^&. The beeping lasted about half an hour. Power was out for about 4 hour. When I finally plugged everything back in, I now get a "replace battery" warning beep from the UPS. It didn't signal anything before the blackout. BTW, my multimeter reads ~13.3 volts on the SLA battery, when I removed it. Is that about right? Anyway, should I upgrade, find a replacement battery or find someway to revive this battery? I repeat it didn't even give me a minute to shut down properly. I assume it's all about the battery, but if my UPS is just too crappy, somebody let me know. :sigh:

Sinjz, I feel your pain. Had the same situation happen in the past and it was the battery. Like others have said, if the batteries are not forced to power your PC which puts the real strain on them, they often continue indicating they are good. They usually last 3-5 years depending on use. If older than 5 years, plan on it being bad.

I had a series of talks with engineers at APC and read a bunch of sites before I began to realize how crappy and overstated many UPS brands and models really are. I typically bought mine at Staples.

If you are like me, you sort of guessed at your actual needs rather than measuring the amps being drawn by your whole setup while plugged in and running. I have owned about 15 UPS's, and I have to laugh when I remember back to my early purchasing decision was based up the "seems about heavy enough when lifted" test. APC does have a decent website you can lookup your equipment and get a rough idea of what you need here.

I ended up getting one of these Sperry Digisnaps years ago for pretty cheap, and you plug everything into a powerstrip, turn it all on, then measure the current being used at full load while doing a couple of common tasks. This gives you a reliable indicator of what you need...then you add another 20-30% above that....then figure out how long you want to run without power and pick the model you REALLY need.

I ended up getting their APC Smart UPS 1500 which periodically puts the UPS into being used by your setup, shows how much of the load capability is being used of the UPS capability, and conditions the power coming into your house to smooth out spikes and drops. After about 3.5 years, my battery replace alarm came on, and I'm about a year into the new one.

Handlobraesing · Jun 15, 2007

LuxLuthor said:
Sinjz, I feel your pain. Had the same situation happen in the past and it was the battery. Like others have said, if the batteries are not forced to power your PC which puts the real strain on them, they often continue indicating they are good. They usually last 3-5 years depending on use. If older than 5 years, plan on it being bad.

I had a series of talks with engineers at APC and read a bunch of sites before I began to realize how crappy and overstated many UPS brands and models really are. I typically bought mine at Staples.

If you are like me, you sort of guessed at your actual needs rather than measuring the amps being drawn by your whole setup while plugged in and running. I have owned about 15 UPS's, and I have to laugh when I remember back to my early purchasing decision was based up the "seems about heavy enough when lifted" test. APC does have a decent website you can lookup your equipment and get a rough idea of what you need here.

I ended up getting one of these Sperry Digisnaps years ago for pretty cheap, and you plug everything into a powerstrip, turn it all on, then measure the current being used at full load while doing a couple of common tasks. This gives you a reliable indicator of what you need...then you add another 20-30% above that....then figure out how long you want to run without power and pick the model you REALLY need.

I ended up getting their APC Smart UPS 1500 which periodically puts the UPS into being used by your setup, shows how much of the load capability is being used of the UPS capability, and conditions the power coming into your house to smooth out spikes and drops. After about 3.5 years, my battery replace alarm came on, and I'm about a year into the new one.

If you have a serial port on your computer, make a cable(or buy one) for your SmartUPS. Using hyperterminal, you can get it to report how much the UPS is loaded in percent. Keep this well below 50%. Any higher and lead acid battery becomes inefficient and your runtime would be far worse than 1/2 the runtime of 50% load.

Connect to it using hyperterminal @ 2400 bps/8N1
push shift+Y

shift+P reports load in percent
shift+B reports battery voltage

The SmartUPS lets you change battery transfer voltage as well as sensitivity to sags.

(more commands here: http://www.networkupstools.org/protocols/apcsmart.html)

LuxLuthor · Jun 15, 2007

That's pretty amazing. Gotta love h@x0rs!

jrmcferren · Jun 15, 2007

I don't know about APC UPSes, but my Powercom has a self-test function. The self-test can be activated on my Powercom in one of three ways (two of which are by software).

-Press the on/off button for about a half second.
-Press the self-test button in software
-A time set in software.

These self-tests allow the UPS to test the battery and the inverter as the load is placed on the battery for about 2-3 seconds.

I don't usually recommend stuff from Taiwan, but Powercom UPSes are good.

Handlobraesing · Jun 15, 2007

jrmcferren said:
I don't know about APC UPSes, but my Powercom has a self-test function. The self-test can be activated on my Powercom in one of three ways (two of which are by software).

-Press the on/off button for about a half second.
-Press the self-test button in software
-A time set in software.

These self-tests allow the UPS to test the battery and the inverter as the load is placed on the battery for about 2-3 seconds.

I don't usually recommend stuff from Taiwan, but Powercom UPSes are good.

The batteries are good for at least a few dozen cycles of full discharge, so it's not a bad idea to do a full discharge with expected load connected. If the runtime is unacceptable relative to new state, it's time to replace the batteries.

barkingmad · Jun 15, 2007

Was it overloaded or near capacity? 500va does not seem a lot if you have a PC and other things running off it? Was it just the PC running on it or a monitor, printer etc.

How old were the batteries?

How old is the UPS?

orionlion82 · Jun 15, 2007

you could cut out the batteries entirely and use one of these:

http://www.genpropower.com/powerware_pf2_flywheel.htm

but its a bit spendy, and you would need some space.

(they use them in industrial plants to keep systems running in brownouts and to handle loads while switching external power sources, before the generator kicks in, etc...)

allthough i imagine you could make one in a better size for cheap enough...

turbodog · Jun 15, 2007

I deal in this stuff for a living. Whether or not your battery or unit is bad, those units are pretty much junk.

Save a little $ and buy a used/refurb smart-ups off ebay. Any of the apc smart-ups series will last a lifetime. Their batteries are cheap to replace. They have much better self-test features, and most of them put of pure sine wave power.

OddOne · Jun 15, 2007

I snagged a military-grade 1,500VA rackmount standby UPS off eBay several years ago that was used at a university and replaced with a newer model when it came due for batteries. It had a selling price of $3,400 at the time and included a line conditioner. I paid $80 + shipping for it and spent another $120 on batteries. (It takes SIX 7Ah gelcells in SERIES!) Recently put new batts in it as the first set I bought finally reached their life expectancy.

It runs my computer, monitor, stereo, router, modem, and desk lights for about two hours.

Under typical conditions for a UPS, SLA batteries should be replaced every 5 years regardless of how many times the UPS went to batt power, as SLAs lose their capacity to produce appreciable current when they get old.

oO

My APC Back-UPS ES500 did NOTHING when I had a blackout

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