Torn between several models for general use.

Hello everyone,

This is my first post to CPF. I have been reading through the forum threads for the past two weeks as I am intending to buy a new light. I'm still having trouble trying to decide on exactly which light to go for, so I decided to register so I could ask others here with a lot more knowledge and expertise on the subject.

I am looking for a good light to use around the house and up until recently, I never owned anything better than a very cheap plastic 2D light with an incandescent bulb. Its power output is poor and even with new batteries, the light is rather dim and orange these days. What with the size and weight of the light not compensating for the lousy output, it is time to get something more decent.

I've been reading up on the differences between LED lights and incandescents and the thought of an LED seems very appealing due to its efficiency. Also, seeing as it would mainly be for indoors, either during a blackout or needing a bit more temporary light in a certain area, etc., the lower range of an LED compared to an incan' wouldn't be an issue.

I've visited www.flashlightreviews.com as well as checked out the opinions at CPF and feel I have narrowed my choices down to a few lights at more budget level pricing (Surefires are lovely for instance but costly). I have thought about one of the Maglite LED models such as the C or D cell models, mainly due to their adjustable beam, but I get the impression from some of the forum threads here that they are rather lacking in one way or another. The other choices I am looking at are the Streamlight 3C ProPolymer Luxeon 1 Watt LED or one of the Fenix lights: either the L2D CE, L2T or L2S.

There seems to be pros and cons with each light that has left me undecided which to go for. Leaving the Maglites aside for the moment, the Streamlight, due to its size and C cells looks to be better as it will have a wider beam (and be better for lighting up a room) with longer battery life, and yet I have read that it is very bright. This sounds like it could possibly be a problem if I need to examine something close up in the dark (maybe writing for example).

The Fenix lights look appealing because of the adjustable power but are very thin. Due to this, does this mean that they are less than ideal for conventional use, in that thinner size means a thinner beam? Also, which of the Fenix models is preferable? Would the L2D CE Cree model be too bright, would the Luxeon L2T be better or would those 3-watt versions be too much anyway and mean the 1-watt L2S is more suitable?

Or should I get more than one light for different roles?

-> :duh2: ->

Hopefully, you gentlemen can, ahem...shed some more light on the matter.

(Yeah, sorry that was a really bad and obvious joke to use.)


Best regards.

Personally, I would go with the L2D CE. I find the Cree based lights get the most bang for the buck as far as brightness and battery life. And since it is a multi-level light, you can dial down the brightness for longer battery life if needed. And it's easier to have too much brightness that can be dimmed than to have a dim light that can't go any brighter. Although larger reflectors can focus better, properly designed small reflectors can do very well. Although I don't have one yet, the fenix lights seem to put our a pretty nice beam.

Welcome to CPF Solaris Wave. It is impossible to find a light that is perfect for every situation, and I can't think of anyone here that would be happy with only ONE light. That said, there are some lights that are great all around lights.
Of the lights I have, two, the Fenix L2D-CE and the Streamlight ProPolymer 4AA Luxeon are considered by many here to be great all around lights [and/or "must haves"], and really are fantastic lights, especially considering their cost. The 4AA ProPoly will be smaller than the 3C you mentioned, but almost as bright. Smaller will mean less runtime - although you still get hours of great light. To me the 4AA beats the Maglight in EVERY way. Although the beam is adjustable on the Mag, it is NEVER as good as the beam on the ProPoly. Same with the Fenix beam, which is not thin - the beam shape is determined by the angle of the reflector and the position of the light emitter. Also, since the L2D has four output levels, it will not be too bright for most situations [too few lights have a LOW LOW that some people want for dark adapted eyes].

Either of those two lights would be a great first good light to get, as would the ProPoly 3C as long as the large size of it doesn't mean you wouldn't be carrying it when you need it.

For working up close in the dark a small single AA light like an Innova X1 [Target ~$20] is good. There are many good lights in this category. FlashlightReviews is a GREAT resource, as is The LED Museum which has good info on beam characteristics.

Thanks for the information and for the welcome. The size of the light wouldn't really be an issue as it would spend more time at home than in one of my pockets when I am out and about. The Streamlight does have a clip though, should I need to carry it around. Obviously though a Fenix is better for carry, however.

I have ruled out the Maglite after LED Thrift's information about reflector angle (something I was stupidly unaware of). If I was to go for one of the Fenix models, is there ever a reason to pick one over the other? They are all the same size so it just comes down to output. Apart from battery life, which I read was the best with the L2S, is the L2D Cree better in every way or could there be some instances when it would be overkill? Would the Luxeon L2T or 1 watt L2S ever be more preferable? Has the L2T been made obsolescent now that the Cree version is out?

Finally, regarding the Streamlight ProPoly 3C, what advantages does it have over the Fenix models other than battery life?

The L2d is great for around the house , it is the 1 light i could use the rest of my life ...until something brighter and more efficient comes along

you will shocked how bright it is for a tiny light when compared to lights you have been using thus far

Solaris Wave said:

Apart from battery life, which I read was the best with the L2S, is the L2D Cree better in every way or could there be some instances when it would be overkill? Would the Luxeon L2T or 1 watt L2S ever be more preferable? Has the L2T been made obsolescent now that the Cree version is out?

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There's no advantage to the L2S/T series, unless you are a modder looking to buy cheaper hosts for emitter upgrades. The L2D-CE will give you longer runtimes for equivalent output of the L2S/T series, and give you the option for much brighter output when you need it.

If I were to recommend only one general, all-purpose light for anyone, it would be the L2D-CE.

If you are looking at any 1AA versions, I've recently posted a runtime review of a lot of popular models around here:
Rexlight, DX X.1 & X.V, Jetbeam MkIIX & CLE, Fenix L1DCE review: RUNTIMES + BEAMSHOTS

[Solaris Wave] "Or should I get more than one light for different roles?"


Welcome to CPF! About that quote of yours.. you dont know how true it is. You will face it times and times again, since there is no such thing as a perfect light. Everyone of us loves or hates brands and likes, but we do all love flashlights and 99% of us mess with them and mod them, upgrade them, whatever..

It is a good start to go for lights that use AA batteries or regular C or D since the cost of batteries is not so scary. Eventually you might praise the usefulness of rechargeables and those little goldmines of power the 123's.
And one thing for sure, you will never stop buying lights (this is our blessing and our curse here at CPF!)

The L2D is a great light for all around use and you will love it at once. Still, dont get dissapointed from maglites. Everyone has them, everyone loves them and a small search will show you what kind of beasts they can be turned to..

My everyday carry is my Surefire L2O with the 65lumen MN03 SF lamp, that I trust my life on it, even if its has not such a great runtime. But I love its beam and color and tiny little package that hardly will be ever replaced..
In my work I use a Surefire rechargeable 8X so I dont care about batteries and it is bright as hell for a regular sized light. In my car I have a 3D maglite with 4C batteries in it and a Radioshack XPR103 lamp and it is usefull both for light and for defense (i bet everyone has a maglite thrown in their car as a politically correct bat), plus a Surefire 9P with a P91 lamp and a bunch of 123 batteries for when I REALLY need light.. In my home (aside a big box full of all my lights batteries and accesories) I have several eveready value 2D lights with LED drop in lamps just for the sake of runtime in emergencies, plus a few mini maglites with 3LED niteize lamps..
And no, I have not yet the perfect light that will replace all and do it all..

You will read lots of comments and advices from people here, and keep them in mind. My advice, go with the light that appeals to you the most and take it from there.

Another vote for the L2D-CE. You will love it. Eventually, you will get a spare L1D body for it and then have something for all occasions, forever....

Solaris Wave said:

The size of the light wouldn't really be an issue as it would spend more time at home than in one of my pockets when I am out and about.

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I would suggest that you do look at a light to carry everywhere. ARC AAA was designed as pretty much the first small and reliable light that you can carry everywhere for emergency use and not have to worry about size. I still carry an original ARC AAA in my wallet with two batteries. It was surprising about how much light it would throw on a dark night or in a building without lights. Plus with the light and two spare batteries--I am good to go for something like 12-16 hours of very usable light.

That being said, I now carry a P3D-CE, not because it is very bright--but because it is "very dim". What has always turned me off on the standard tactical flashlight (and don't get me wrong--I LOVE great mechanical workmanship and a very bright light), was that very bright filament light does three things "wrong"--is too bright for 90% of day to day use (ever try to read a map or a menu with a spot light?), eats batteries (new lithium batteries every hour or two), and eats bulbs (every 10-20 hours--plus every time they get a good drop).

A "dim" light is comfortable on the eyes (no covering the lens with your hand to use it without bothering others) and gives a long runtime (P3D-CE is ~65 hours on two lithiums on low). But with the modern CREE and other LED lights now--you can get tactical brightness and about two to four times the runtime as any other light out there.

Yes, LEDs are pale/ghostly white and don't give ideal color rendering. A good quality Halogen/Xenon filament bulb will give a much more natural beam--and you can obviously get insanely bright filament flashlights too. I got a UK Light Cannon for that though-8 C cell diving light. ~4 hours of HID light (beautiful blue/white beam, relatively compact in size, $80 dollar if I break a bulb). Did I say it was waterproof? I really like long run times and reliable (long life bulbs)--over that of just a small/bright light with 20 minutes to an hour of light.

Yes--the P3D-CE (and others of this class of lights) feel like toys--but that is because they are small, light weight, and have a lot of options. I would rather have small, light, and options in illumination--but have it with me everywhere than have a my too expensive to lose, too big to carry, too bright to use, too many spare batteries needed for a night's of use--light at safely at home--when I am not safely at home.

Would I have loved to get one of the older ARC or HDS single CR123 multifunction lights--Yep. They were built like tanks, both structurally and like the military requiring $$$ to put one in your garage.

At 1/3 to 1/4 the price (or less) and twice the brightness/runtime, you can have a similar product and find out how handy it is to always have your "toy" with you everywhere.

It won't hit you the first day you use your light, or even the first week--but after about a year or so, you will find that carrying a light everywhere becomes just 2nd nature. And, you will probably find that you have two or three with you at all times because the "backup lights" are so small (key chain, ARC AAA type in wallet, etc.) that they take virtually no extra room/work to carry and are always at your finger tips ready for use.

Don't think that these new lights will replace the 3D Mags--Those lights are only at home because they are so big and heavy--and many times with leaking batteries because the kid found it and left it on last spring. These new lights are used all of the time because they are small and easy to carry everywhere, highly useful and much more reliable (if you take into account that a battery replacement or bulb change means the typical flashlight "fails" every hour or two--or has dead batteries every time you need it in an emergency).

Even if the Fenix (or any of a dozen of other multi-function LED light vendors out there) electronics/LED failed after two battery changes--that is ~100-120 hours of use and/or 10 years of sitting in a drawer unused on the first set of lithium batteries--none of my other "old fashion" lights would lasted 1/10 as long before requiring vast quantities of batteries, new bulbs, and the occasional trying to dig out leaking batteries from a corroded drawer queen.

Add the whole new world of rechargeables to the equation--you have a hobby that will keep you busy and out of trouble for years to come.

-Bill

Thanks for all of the replies. That is certainly a wide range of lights you guys use and for different occasions! I am starting to seriously consider buying more than one light now. 1) Because I shouldn't depend on one light and not have a backup. 2) For various uses. 3) Because even though I am now sold on buying the L2D, I still am thinking about the Streamlight 3C (due to such high opinions about the 4AA version).

I think eventually I will bite the bullet and go for a good quality rechargeable, later down the line. At least then I can possibly have a Xenon filament incan and not worry about it eating through those CR123 batteries. Because I live in the UK (a.k.a. Rip-off Britain) where everything is more expensive, the high quality rechargeables, Surefires and other similiar brands, are real wallet munchers.

Who knows, I may even find myself wanting a handy pocket light as well! It has never occurred to me before because I have never felt the need for one when outside. I suppose it is like that line in the movie "True Romance" where he says, "It is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it."

Only in this case you substitute the word "gun" for "light".

Having just gotten my first Streamlight ProPolymer Luxeon 4AA flashlight this week maybe I can help. This is a nice bright white light with a good spill and plenty of throw. Nice form and lifetime warrany too. $24 from
Fox International. I have a Dorcy Metal Gear also and this Streamlight is
far more powerful. The streamlight can use regular AA or rechargable and
run time is a regulated 4 to 5 hours, then dims after that. I does come in
the C battery style too, maybe more throw, definitely longer run time.

If you are willing to stray from AA batteries, I would highly recommend this fine light with variable output.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=112127
It comes in 3 and 4 watts, sports a luxeon but is perhaps the simplest mod around. Uses 2 cr123/rcr123 or single 17500 through 18650 rechareables.
Sized like a thicker AA mag, I find myself picking it up for every household task as well as evening hikes. The user interface is the best thing. Button up or down for power mode. 4watt version modded with seoul or cree throws like a Huntlight F1 cree. And the stock lux provides all the light you'll ever need around the house. You'll be looking for reasons to use it.
Not to mention that Herb is one of the nicest guys to work with.

A bit smaller but close in user friendliness and equal in output, P3D is a winner. Yes, fenix has had minor qc issues from the start, but not like so many others lately. Clean the contacts thoroughly and this is one great light. It also gives you choice of primaries v rechargeables with an interface that lets you toggle from low to turbo without suffering through blinking beacons and sos signals.

If you want a BIG light in a little, pocketable form, I'd go P2Dce but I'd try to snag one of the special edition Q2's now offered by fenix-store. I matched it up against my P3D original and with a primary battery it is noticeably brighter than the P3D on rechargeables (brighter, smoother beam, warmer color, better spill, broader spot, and equal or better throw on low med and high)! On turbo it's a draw. The special edition fenix's sport textured reflectors, premium bin with noticeably higher output and beam quality. You'll pay a slight premium but having compared this light to all the others I own, it's well worth the price. And the emitter is easily accessible for a Q4 transplant.

Definitely get more than one light for different roles.

Regardless of which light you decide to get, it's always best to have more than one. Any light can fail. Some, less likely than others, but still....

Most CPFers have several lights scattered about their homes in case of a Blackout. If we're talking about what lights are best for dealing with a Blackout, LEDs have an advantage. You never know how long you'll be without power, and LEDs aren't going to burn out; even if the power stays off for several days.

As far as a main flashlight goes, I know you wanted to put the Maglite LED models on the back burner, but they're a good choice. I use a 2-C MagLED model at work, to patrol darkened office floors. Must admit, it works extremely well. You can adjust the beam for flood or for throw. (Not something you can do with a lot of other LED lights). I can definitely tell you that it has very good throw if you narrow the beam. Yes, you still get rings and dark spots at the flood setting; but that is easily eliminated if you tighten the beam. The batteries will last longer than a traditional Maglite. And, with the C cell models, you are more likely to find batteries at your local hardware or drug store, during a Blackout, than the more common types of batteries that most folks use in their lights. (Ex. D and AA cells).

I'll be honest, I have had a couple of Maglites fall apart on me in the past. But I believe those were rare lemons that squeezed by Quality Control. Zero problems with the several Maglites I've recently bought. Some CPFers don't like Maglite because of their claims of being the best in the industry. Obviously that's not a correct claim. But, ask the average person to name who's the best flashlight maker, and you know what they're answer will be. Also, the guy who owns Maglite has a reputation for suing his competitors..... even the Little guys who truly come up with something innovative that Maglite claims is one of their ideas. None of this effects the performance of a MagLED flashlight, though.

I also recommend keeping smaller lights around as well. LED versions of the classic 2AA Mini-mag. (Since AA cells are popular, keep extra batteries at home). They don't even have to be from Maglite. Dorcy is a good alternative. Nite-Ize is a company that makes aftermarket parts for mini-Mags. Their 3 LED w/ tailcap switch kit is a winner, and only costs $10. The LEDs are made more for very long runtime instead of being very bright. But it's ideal in a Blackout, and easily found at Target.

Every family member should have an LED headlamp. There are a variety of good choices here. One inexpensive model is the one from Energizer. Not waterproof, but easily available at most Target stores for not too much money.

While you're there, consider picking up an Energizer lantern (large model) as well. Definitely comes in handy. Not an LED, but still useful during a Blackout.

Not often recommended for Blackout or General use, a small keychain sized LED light is great for those small chores that only require a bit of light. You can use button cell lights, but as far as Blackouts go, a 1AA or 1AAA model is better. Dorcy and Garrity both make very good 1AAA lights. There's also the Gerber Infinity ultra task light that will run for days on one battery, that's with continuous use. I own each of those LED key-chain lights, and I recommend them.

Hope this helped.

Solaris Wave said:

...I think eventually I will bite the bullet and go for a good quality rechargeable, later down the line...

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I often use rechargeable NiMH AA batteries in my SL ProPoly 4AA. They work fine.

L2D CE Cree is the way too go,,,,also get some recharegable batts and a charger,,,mag 3 D cell ....have both lights ,,,love em,,,

and welcome to the forum solaris,,,

Originally posted by Solaris Wave: I suppose it is like that line in the movie "True Romance" where he says, "It is better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it."

Only in this case you substitute the word "gun" for "light".

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Words to live by, my friend...words to live by.

I use a 2AA MagLED at work everyday (I work building maintenance) and I'm quite happy with it...it's a VAST improvement over the old MiniMag and for "real" world use it's a very nice light. I have many other lights, a Surfire 6P with CREE LED drop in (AWESOME light), various cheaper CREE LED lights from Deal Extreme (all VERY bright), a DX MTE SSC-P4 1AA light that I carry in my pocket every day (VERY, VERY bright), and various other "D" Mags with Luxeon LED drop ins, a couple of Mag 2C "hotwires" (incredible throw!), etc. and I use the 2AA MagLED more than any of the others for everyday, looking under sinks, in dark ceilings, behind water heaters, in crawl spaces, etc. because it's quite bright, but not overwhelming...the brighter lights I have would blind me in a lot of situations due to hitting reflective surfaces and shining back at me. In fact, my MTE SSC-P4 left spots in my eyes after I shined it in my brothers eyes...that's right, I shined it in my brothers eyes, up close, in a dark room (aren't brothers just lovely to each other?) and the light that reflected off of his face actually left spots in my eyes! :devil:

A lot of people here don't like this light for various reasons, a couple I agree with...such as the fact that when the battery is dead, there is little warning before it begins to flicker badly for a moment, then just goes out. Some say that it's not very tough, but I have dropped mine several times, a couple of times from the top of a 6 foot ladder and once off the ladder, then it bounced down a flight of concrete stairs and it's still going strong.

I did have one problem with it about a month after I got it...it started flickering for no reason. I simply sprayed some Progold on the positive contact and it's been rock solid ever since and that's been about four months of pretty heavy use.

It sounds like you've made your choice, but if you ever run across a good deal on a 2AA MagLED, I say go for it!

Welcome to CPF! :wave:

The L2D CE Cree model would be too bright, No it would be just right as
it has a good usable light selection mode

Thanks for all of the excellent information and the welcoming!

The Maglites still seem popular despite their apparent flaws but I'm not sure I would buy one if I was going to get the Streamlight. I do actually prefer the look of the Maglite to the ProPoly 3C because the ProPoly appears a little tacky from the photos. That however, is pretty much a superficial matter if the light does what it is supposed to do and does it well.

Toohotruk's comments about the MagLED is interesting though and kind of what I was worrying about with regards to the Fenix L2D Cree and Streamlight 3C. Would those two lights, even the Fenix with its adjustable brightness, still be too bright for looking inside cupboards, under sinks or other enclosed spaces? Would the MagLED be more suitable for that situation and due to having the option to allow for flood or throw, be the better general purpose light?

I can see the benefits of lights that use CR123 batteries (and Surefires seem to use only those except for rechargeable models) but AAs and C-cells are much easier to get hold of and are cheaper. I could buy the batteries online and get them cheaper but annoyingly they are still more expensive in the UK than in the US. Sometimes much more (just like the lights themselves in fact). Knowing their cost and that some lights eat through them in a matter of hours would put me off wanting to use the light for any period of time. I could see myself using them as flashlights in the original sense.

So, from what others have said here, I will definitely get a Fenix L2D but for a second light, what would you think would be better between a MagLED C-cell (or even D-cell) and a Streamlight ProPoly 3C?

Just don't say get all three! :laughing:

Right, I have finally made my mind up. I saw a pretty good advert on YouTube.com that showed various Fenix lights working alongside two different Maglites (unsure whether they were MagLEDs though, probably not) and a Surefire.

I've decided to go for the L2D CE and pick up the L1D CE while I am it, thanks to what others advised me to do. It would be a good idea to have a smaller one for the pocket when outdoors at night. Night vision does only go so far, especially when your eyes haven't had time to adjust due to walking in and out of areas that have street lights.

For good measure though and despite what I said at the end of my last post, I'll get a Streamlight ProPoly 3C as well. It will be interesting to compare it to the smaller Cree based Fenix lights.

So from being a flashlight rookie that only had a rubbish 2D clunky incan', I'm already going to be owning three different lights. I guess I'm on the road to being a CPF aficionado.

Thanks for the info, guys!