Blinded by the light

Dreck

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I like the new technologies as much as the next guy but this buisness of putting megawatt hid bulbs behind some crappy projector lenses on cars is a bit too much. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Driving around being blinded by these things is getting quite old. I would suppose being the lighter is better than being the lightee. Has anyone else lost any retinal cells lately?
 

Wolfen

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i can't stand those %^$&^^&%^* lights either. I'm a FIB also. I wonder if it's a local( as in state) thing?
 

B@rt

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I don't think so... We have them here too, and a lot of them are more blinding than the regular halogen bulbs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 

Zelandeth

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Yes, try dealing with them through a 23 year old, non-polarised or tinted windscreen, when you've only got 50/45W tungsten headlights...
More often they seem to get me in the mirrors...just because I'm driving a 23 year old car, why do people find it necessary to tailgate?!? Whether or not I'm at (or above) the speed limit??? (More often than not, I pull over to let them past (rather than go blind), then they overtake...and slow down to 45 or 50mph....what the heck's going on?) OK, that bit's totally off topic...ignore me...bad day....
 

rrtanton

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I'm hesitant to be critical, partially because I have always been fascinated by these lights...I think there are some important questions that need answering, but first, a bit of background:

When my dad bought his retirement toy (a Seal Gray '02 Boxter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif) he did NOT want these headlights...felt they were a waste of money. I'd advocated getting them, as I'd noticed when such cars spent any time passing me slowly, the wavelengths and intensity seemed to really cut through inclement weather/provide better general visibility. In the end, he got an excellent deal on an on-lot model, which came with HIDs anyway. After driving it for some time, he's confessed he likes them better, as do I on the rare occasions I've gotten to pilot 'er. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

One of the details of these lights, as learned through the manual and through observation of the lights themselves, is they come with fantastically complicated self-levelers and reflectors. They never need adjustment as they adjust themselves (or rather, if they do somehow get out of adjustment your dealer is the only one who can fix them!) When travelling uphill, for instance, the beams actually tilt downward to prevent blinding drivers. The beams themselves have a very sharp "cutoff point" minimizing "bleed" of light into unwanted directions.

The thrust of all this is to explain that at least some of these cars are not designed to just throw blinding light as far as they can. I can't at all swear to it, but I THINK I've noticed one or two of the HID-equipped Boxters on the road and had to double-take to be sure it was running HIDs. Maybe.

I have three theories:
1. Some countries require elaborately designed HIDs to prevent blinding. Some manufacturers meet these specs, but some don't. So, for example, perhaps American HID cars are bad while Germans are good.
2. The lights aren't blinding at all. WHAT, you ask? They put out a million percent more light! Well...what do you do when you see HIDs coming at you, especially when you first saw 'em? You probably subconsciously stared at them, eh, noticing the unique wavelength? Of COURSE that's blinding. Even if you try to not look at 'em, you probably still stare at them more than you think. You're used to yellowish halogens so you don't look at them anymore, you focus on your own road...but try staring at oncoming ordinary halogens sometime. Also, there's the possibility that the "bad" HID lights are just misaligned ones, or ones that bleed light badly in unintended directions.
3. The lights ARE blinding, either from sheer volume of light or because the human eye is more sensitive to the HID wavelengths (though they ARE brighter, so I'm not exactly sure how that would work.)

From my own personal experience, I rarely feel these lights are any worse than normal halogens. But there are occasions where I think they're unusually bright, and different people probably have different sensitivities to them. And just because I don't THINK they affect me negatively doesn't mean they DON'T. I'm wondering if there isn't some research from an insurance automotive safety institute, or interviews with company executives/engineers, talking about this. They can prove how much distraction cellphones provide...couldn't they study these too, especially any relationships between distraction/brightness/color, and possible eye sensitivity to certain colors? Is there even any ACTUAL benefit to these lights? If there is, does it outweigh potential blindingness and the $1,000 price tag? I'd love to see some real controlled studies on this sort of thing.

rusty
 

leddite

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NuEnglandia
euro headlights have much better, farther, and sharply defined throw
patterns, what with better reflectors/baffles/etc. compared to the usual
american throw patterns, there's no contest. you can thank DOT for that,
as they don't seem to WANT the USA to have better. just "throw the old
light out there". hopefully, this will improve.

lots of folx with german/euro cars replace the required bits to get the
euro throw patterns even with xenon/halogen setups. it's lovely.
the self levelling hardware is even present/available on halogen lights.

regarding those three theories (below), yeah, dead on imho, people see
something new, and stare at it. my dad bitched about it, and i pointed
out HIS car has those lights, and he stopped looking into them like a deer
and quit bitching too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


[ QUOTE ]
...
One of the details of these lights, as learned through the manual and through observation of the lights themselves, is they come with fantastically complicated self-levelers and reflectors. They never need adjustment as they adjust themselves (or rather, if they do somehow get out of adjustment your dealer is the only one who can fix them!) When travelling uphill, for instance, the beams actually tilt downward to prevent blinding drivers. The beams themselves have a very sharp "cutoff point" minimizing "bleed" of light into unwanted directions.
...
I have three theories:
1. Some countries require elaborately designed HIDs to prevent blinding. Some manufacturers meet these specs, but some don't. So, for example, perhaps American HID cars are bad while Germans are good.

2. The lights aren't blinding at all. WHAT, you ask? They put out a million percent more light! Well...what do you do when you see HIDs coming at you, especially when you first saw 'em? You probably subconsciously stared at them, eh, noticing the unique wavelength? Of COURSE that's blinding. Even if you try to not look at 'em, you probably still stare at them more than you think. You're used to yellowish halogens so you don't look at them anymore, you focus on your own road...but try staring at oncoming ordinary halogens sometime. Also, there's the possibility that the "bad" HID lights are just misaligned ones, or ones that bleed light badly in unintended directions.

3. The lights ARE blinding, either from sheer volume of light or because the human eye is more sensitive to the HID wavelengths (though they ARE brighter, so I'm not exactly sure how that would work.)
...

rusty

[/ QUOTE ]
 

Wolfen

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I actually haven't had a problem with the HID lights when they come stock on the car. The problem is when someone retro fits their '79 Cutlass with the HID lights. One light is aimed up in the trees like they are racoon hunting and the other is aimed straight at your eyes. Then the bass coming from the trunk is rattling your car to pieces. This can induce a lethal amount of road rage. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif
 

Greta

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I think Wolfen has it nailed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I just bought a Nissan Murano with Xenon headlights. They are awesome!! And yes, the cutoff is very distinct. Where I can see a potential problem is the little adjustment wheel. I have the ability to adjust how far out I want my low beams to go. Mind you, there's not ALOT of control but it's there. The GOOD thing is that it's only the passenger side that you can control. I believe this is for just the reason you all are discussing here.

Now when I turn the highbeams on... OUCH!! Yeah, I'll blind anyone who unfortunately stumbles into my path. This is where just plain old good driving etiquette comes into play.

I don't think that the manufacturer installed lights are the problem. I honestly think it's the do-it-yourself'ers who are giving these fantastic lights a bad name. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsdown.gif
 

rrtanton

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Interesting...makes a lot of sense that a retro kit would have serious problems working properly.

Anybody noticed this slightly related problem? Not to cast aspersions on your cool-looking new SUV, Sasha (and we'll ignore my general, somewhat hypocritical mislike of SUVs) but has anyone noticed that trucks and SUVs in general seem to have more-blinding lights? I've been told me it's because the lights are mounted higher...but I wonder, are they also aiming farther? I presume there's a good reason for mounting them higher on a pickup or SUV...and I suspect proper optics would keep the beam non-blinding, as discussed above. Funny...I'd never really thought of considering plain-ol' headlights as such an important factor in buying a car!

rusty
 

Tombeis

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I remember when the automotive industry started switching over to halogen lamps in headlights.

You heard the same complaints from the old f**t mentality.

"They are blinding us." (whine, whine)

I would think that people on this forum would be more "enlightened"

While I'm at it, the complainers of SUV's and pickup trucks are usually driving Honda Civic type Japanese shitbox rollerskates. They woulden't know a real vehicle if it bit them in the ***. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

Greta

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WHOA!!! Tom... easy! Ya wanna take that post down a notch? Please? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thanks in advance... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 

Greta

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/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif uh boy! Ok... seeing as how Tom is not going to edit his post and now others are seeing fit to actually quote it... should we close this thread or can we all just move on please and get back to the original discussion?

And let's ALL take it down a notch? K?
 

Dreck

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When I started this thread I made no mention of what type or size of vehicle, just megawatt hid bulbs behind crappy projector lenses splattering light everywhere. In this discussion, size doesn't matter. Misaligned and dirty lenses do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Let's not get all huffy O.K.?
 

Tombeis

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Sasha: I forgot the smiley face after the last line in the last post. I edited the post, and hope it brings it down a notch as you suggest.

I drive a pickup truck because I have tools to carry and materials to haul just about every day.

I addition I am careful not to do unto small car drivers as they do unto me.

If people have large families, or need a large vehicle for their work or recreation then I believe they should drive the type of vehicle that meets their needs without being hasseled by those who don't.

I looks like InThe Dark can dish it out with his criticism of SUVs and pickups, but he can't take it when someone levels the same at him.
 

tkl

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tom, are you sure you lawyered up before that post? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

after this thread, you may need a tkl consultaion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif
 
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