Opinions on Surefire L5 (and also L2)

After months of searching and reading on CPF I think my "first" real flashlight will be a Surefire. I've seen somewhere on the forum that "everyone ends up buying a Surefire".
I already own a couple of lights: UK 4AA (inc.), Streamlight Scorpion (LED), Bushnell 1W, Minimag, Maglite 4C, North49 6 LEDs, Dorcy 3 LEDs (crank) and also a Thor.

I'm not a pro so I need simple answers.

I'm really interested in the incoming L5 from SF with the Cree LED.
I like the beam (actual L5): somewhat hotspot with a nice spill beam.
I've found on the 2007 SF catalog that the new L5 will push 120 lumens.

What I'm looking for:
Regulation
Be able to use rechargeables CR123
100 lumens + (I want something BRIGHT)
NO reverse clicky (this is why I'll not buy a P3D-CE... but 160 lumens would have been nice...)

But there is some questions I need to be answered:
Can I use rechargeables CR123 in the L5 ?
What do you think of the current L5 ?
Is there other flashlights that worth looking at ?

All advices and answers will be very appreciated.

Thanks in advance !

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

i may be wrong but i read a post here that said the L5 was put on hold and may not even come out

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

I hope it will not be on hold... because I saw in the 2007 catalog that the L5 will get a new LED and will push 120 lumens.
I think I'll contact SF.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

I am debating this myself. Should I or shouldn't I. I demo'd a KL5 today and found it sufficient in brightness at the claimed 100 lumen range. I might go ahead and get the 2006- L5 and not wait. Although the KL5/L5 is bright it's not BRIGHT. If you're used to Cree brightness the L5 might let you down.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

It is why it would be nice to have a SF L5 with a Cree LED.
I was very interested in the P3D-CE but the reverse clicky is a total turn-off for me But the output of the P3D-CE look really nice on the turbo mode.
I'm looking for something BRIGHT but don't want to pay 300$ for it
The L5 is in my price range.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

What you can also is buy a Surefire C2 and drop in a P60 sized Cree module. Still ends up being around the same price. Gives you a bit more versatility and allows you to keep up with the changes. It seems like new modules are being released often.
Wolf-Eyes sells a nice Cree module as well as Bug Out Gear.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

The new L5 is on "indefinite hold".
Further, none of SureFire's LuxeonV models are being considered for the Cree XR-E LED either. We knew this already since it was mentioned at SHOT Show 2007.

I get the impression that SureFire don't consider the Cree XR-E LED to be the 'one and only LED that they must update to'. I realise this may not fit with general feeling on CPF but that SureFire have never sought to fit with CPFers since we are not SureFire's market.
SureFire use the appropriate LED for the job. Mostly that is the LuxeonIII and LuxeonV. It appears the Cree XR-E LED is a suitable replacement for the LuxeonIII because the KL1, L1 and X200(A) are being updated.
"indefinite hold" on updating the L5 (KL5) indicates to me that SureFire are looking wider [than just the Cree XR-E] in their search for a LuxeonV replacement.

Should you wait?
Should you wait when you don't know what you're waiting for, nor how long you'll have to wait?
I guess that depends on your illumination tool requirements/needs/desires.

I read some threads where people question whether updating to brighter flashlights is actually necessary when current models do the job just fine.
I don't think this takes into account the desire of Flashaholics to have the latest and greatest regardless of whether it is strictly required/needed or not.

Further, if you want to have the latest flashlight then it seems to me that you shouldn't stick to just one brand but select from those offering things new and improved on a case by case basis.

My personal preference is to stick with my SureFire L2 until PK comes up with something that I think can replace it as my EDC. The new L1 is a strong contender for this. I don't think it's worth waiting for a new L5 at the expense of getting a new L1 in the meanwhile.

It is perfectly reasonable to me that others decide not to wait either and go elsewhere to models from brands other than SureFire.

Al

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

I think I can wait. Waiting = more $ in my wallet

Seriously: do I need a new flashlight ? Yes. I'm not totally satisfied with my Scorpion, my current EDC. It is why I want to get something better and brighther. I tought the Surefire's would be a good choice because I see a lot of good comments about them.
The reasons I want a new light: MORE lumens, durability, be able to use rcr123 and NO reverse clicky.
SF are expensive I know... but I think they worth what we pay for.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

I am not an expert--but isn't virtually every light you have the equivalent of a "reverse" clicky--or at least a full click (or twist) required to turn on?

If you need a forward clicky--fine. But a light with a reverse clicky still works fine as a general purpose light.

Even a "forward clicky" once on, requires a full click off--of course with a multi-level light--many of them will change light levels/functions with switch manipulation.

You can get worst lights as a place holder (at, apparently 1/5 the cost) while waiting for your ideal next light to be available (and in this case, they use the same batteries--so they will not be a write-off).

-Bill

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

I know that a reverse clicky works fine but I like to momentary push the switch to have a rapid illumination and I don't like to fully push the swith to get the light on.
For the moment I use my Scorpion as my EDC and it is using 123 cells so I will be able to use the cells in other lights.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

I was waiting for the new L5, but now I'm definitely getting the new L1 as soon it comes out, that plus a Novatac.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

This is a very interesting philosophy from Surefire.

They've mentioned that their future is LED models and that they won't be introducing any new incandescent models in the future.

But, they are stalling on improving the majority of their LED lights.

Either the Cree or Seoul aren't as great as people think and Surefire has something "big" in the works to replace the Lux V emitters...

I completely understand that Surefire has the majority of the market share of their main customers (which are not CPF members), but it is also true that one of the "surefire" ways to lose said market share is to rest on ones laurels.

By not upgrading in a timely fashion, the door is being left open for competitors to come on in and grab that share....

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

Lux V is electrically much different from Cree (it has 4 dies inside) so a Cree head from Surefire would probably be an L1 or KL1 successor, not L5.

LED Surefires aren't that interesting to me though; if you want a high end Cree-based EDC, consider a McLux PD-C(?) or something like that.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

Well, I'm sure Surefire gets notified by manufacturers when there is something new coming out. Maybe they have heard that something else is coming in a few months that will suit their needs better? Just a thought.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

I think I will wait for Surefire to give some news.
Beside Surefire I don't know which brands of flashlight worth paying attention.
The Fenix looks amazing but I don't like the reverse clicky on the P3D-CE.
It may be difficult for me to find the light I really want because there is a lot of things that i'm looking for: NO reverse clicky, 100+ luments, LED, Cree, good beam with hotspot and great spill, rechargeable cr123a.
Well... I really look forward the SF... but I don't know if it is a good idea to wait for their new or upgraded models.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

From a specification comparison even the "NEW" L1 seems already dated compared to the Novatac lights that are coming out.

The only L1 advantage may be runtime @ 60L as the Novatac hasn't published the runtime for 85/120L modes. If they can get 1 - 1.5hr regulated @ 120L from one cell in the Novatac, Surefire should just hold the L1 until they can compete....It wouldn't even be close.

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

Spypro said:

Seriously: do I need a new flashlight ? Yes. I'm not totally satisfied with my Scorpion, my current EDC. It is why I want to get something better and brighther. I tought the Surefire's would be a good choice because I see a lot of good comments about them.
The reasons I want a new light: MORE lumens, durability, be able to use rcr123 and NO reverse clicky.

Click to expand...

If you can't wait you should look at the Novatac 120 that is due to come out in late July/early August. If you can you might want to wait until the Surefires are ready and/or HDS comes out with his new lights.

In the meantime you can always buy one of the more interesting Chinese lights. They aren't quite in the same class, but they aren't bad either.

Hans

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

Size15's said:

I get the impression that SureFire don't consider the Cree XR-E LED to be the 'one and only LED that they must update to'. <snip> SureFire use the appropriate LED for the job. Mostly that is the LuxeonIII and LuxeonV. It appears the Cree XR-E LED is a suitable replacement for the LuxeonIII because the KL1, L1 and X200(A) are being updated. "indefinite hold" on updating the L5 (KL5) indicates to me that SureFire are looking wider [than just the Cree XR-E] in their search for a LuxeonV replacement.

Click to expand...

That's an interesting point. Do you think it's conceivable that they want to see how well the Crees do in actual use before committing their entire product line to this (relatively) new LED? After all, the "typical" Surefire customer depends more on his light then most people here do, and reliability is surely more important to a soldier in Irak than to the average flashoholic.

Size15's said:

I read some threads where people question whether updating to brighter flashlights is actually necessary when current models do the job just fine.

Click to expand...

I'm in two minds about this. I'm not really certain I *need* more than, say, 80 lumens, and I usually need far less than that. The longer runtimes are of course nice, but unless I'm in the middle of nowhere with no access to mains electricity to recharge my Li-Ions I can get by with shortish runtimes, as long as I've got a light that has some lower level that lets me extend the runtime if I need it.

Size15's said:

My personal preference is to stick with my SureFire L2 until PK comes up with something that I think can replace it as my EDC. The new L1 is a strong contender for this. I don't think it's worth waiting for a new L5 at the expense of getting a new L1 in the meanwhile.

Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to the new E1L myself, but I'll have to see the beam pattern and the output first. The present E1L is a specialized light with its very narrow beam, and there are situations where I really like that kind of beam pattern. I don't really need another light with a wide spill, there are already plenty of those about.

Hans

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

Spypro: To answer your question about rechargeables for the L5: The KL5 head can also be used on 3-cell lights (9 volts). 2 normal 3.7V RCR123 cells get up to 8.4V fresh from the charger. So they work fine!

Re: Surefire L5 with cree... worth waiting ?

The Toecutter said:

This is a very interesting philosophy from Surefire.

Click to expand...

My opinion may not represent SureFire's philosophy and I do not claim it does.

The Toecutter said:

They've mentioned that their future is LED models and that they won't be introducing any new incandescent models in the future.
But, they are stalling on improving the majority of their LED lights.

Click to expand...

I don't consider that SureFire are "stalling". The situation is far more complex.
I feel it is fair to say they have not rushed in on this Cree XR-E craze. But then you know what they say about those who rush in...

The Toecutter said:

Either the Cree or Seoul aren't as great as people think and Surefire has something "big" in the works to replace the Lux V emitters...

Click to expand...

Why not both?
Even at SHOT Show SureFire were hinting that the Cree XR-E and SSC LEDs were [in my own words] 'only the start of a new generation of LEDs'.

The Toecutter said:

I completely understand that Surefire has the majority of the market share of their main customers (which are not CPF members), but it is also true that one of the "surefire" ways to lose said market share is to rest on ones laurels.
By not upgrading in a timely fashion, the door is being left open for competitors to come on in and grab that share....

Click to expand...

'Fools rush in [and get the best seats!]'
If you look outside of CPF at the real world are SureFire being left behind by any of companies who can give them a serious run for their money in the tactical light market? Does this market even want white-light LEDs?

I'd suggest that current white-light LEDs are not even close to what the 'tactical' market wants. They want an illumination tool that can easily transition from IR light to full-spectrum white light truly useful outdoors and in low-light / ambient light conditions. The Cree XR-E is no better for this than the LuxeonV.
Perhaps we will see that some companies are left sitting down as others move on forward to the 'real party'?

Hans said:

Do you think it's conceivable that they want to see how well the Crees do in actual use before committing their entire product line to this (relatively) new LED?

Click to expand...

I don't think it has anything to do with this.

The Toecutter said:

From a specification comparison even the "NEW" L1 seems already dated compared to the Novatac lights that are coming out.
The only L1 advantage may be runtime @ 60L as the Novatac hasn't published the runtime for 85/120L modes. If they can get 1 - 1.5hr regulated @ 120L from one cell in the Novatac, Surefire should just hold the L1 until they can compete....It wouldn't even be close.

Click to expand...

There is more to a flashlight than just the output. Whether the output ratings are accurate is a significant hurdle to begin with.
I personal consider that flashlights like the 'Novatac' seriously fail on ergonomics including the 'user interface' switching compared to the L1 and other models with the two-stage push button pressure switch.
Of course I don't pretend my personal view is the only right view because ergonomics is personally subjective. However, ergonomics and switching are just as important when considering the suitability of various flashlights as the output & runtime etc.

Al