What are your runtimes for ROP and C li-ions?

Hello folks.

Would you share your runtimes with AW's new C li-ions in an ROP with cells?

Also what runtimes are you seeing on other bulbs such as the WA1111, WA1274, Osram 64250, Philips 5761?

FYI, the only run test that I have done so far is for the Pelican Low bulb, where I got 1 hr., 15 min. --- about 25% more than 58 min. using 6x Eneloops in an FM holder.

Thanks!

WA1185 : 61 minutes
WA1111 : 50 minutes
Philips 5761 : 28 minutes

AW said:

Philips 5761 : 28 minutes

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I'm confused by reading the other threads about this bulb drawing 5.6A at 7.1 to 7.2V, and some saying it won't work with the C Li-Ion because of that.

Some people have had the C Li-ion cells not start on one click with the 5761 if their light has extremely low resistance. It might take multiple clicks, but I have not heard of anyone being unable to get it to work at all. Northern Lights has a light with such low resistance that it takes 5 clicks, and he went through a lot of work to get the resistance down that far. I thought I had a low resistance light, but mine works with one click so I guess it's not as low as I thought. Either that or the current limit is slightly higher for mine (doubtful). Now with the advent of AW's regulator you will be able to make the resistance as low as you want to squeeze 100-200 extra lumens out of it. :huh:

Interesting. I have a stock(except for reflector, lens and tailcap) 2C that takes 3-5 clicks to start a cold 5761. :thinking:

Nitro said:

Interesting. I have a stock(except for reflector, lens and tailcap) 2C that takes 3-5 clicks to start a cold 5761. :thinking:

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Nitro, out of curiosity, what are you using to plug the 5761 into? A Kiu socket, or a bipin adapter (FM or other) of some sort, or are they potted (if they exist) bulbs?

-Rick

Does anyone have some runtime info for the Pelican 3854 High and Low bulbs they would like to share?

Thanks!

RickB said:

Nitro, out of curiosity, what are you using to plug the 5761 into? A Kiu socket, or a bipin adapter (FM or other) of some sort, or are they potted (if they exist) bulbs?

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I'm using this bipin adapter.

I don't know of any potted 5761 bulbs.

zehnmm said:

Does anyone have some runtime info for the Pelican 3854 High and Low bulbs they would like to share?

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With AW's C's, I'd guess 50min for the ROP Hi, and 110min for the ROP Low.

Hello Nitro.

Thanks for your information.

Are these actual runtimes that you have experienced?

What I am looking to find out are actual runtimes that people have been getting versus the theoretical times calculated from a formula.

Regards.

zehnmm said:

Hello Nitro.

Thanks for your information.

Are these actual runtimes that you have experienced?

What I am looking to find out are actual runtimes that people have been getting versus the theoretical times calculated from a formula.

Regards.

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Those are calculated. I have not done an actual runtime test yet. It's on my list of things to do.

I would guess it will vary quite a bit from light to light, depending on the charge of the batteries, resistance of the light etc. Maybe someone who has can weight in.

Nitro said:

I'm using this bipin adapter.

I don't know of any potted 5761 bulbs.

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Nitro, thanks for the info. It seems like there are several factors at play, such as resistance mods to host, the exact trip threshold of the cells' protection circuits, and maybe even variances in the bulbs' resistance. Depending on what that all adds up to, one may or may not need to multi-click to get a 5761 lit with the AW "C" cells.

I'm keeping my eye on this because I'd like to put together a 2C AW "C"-powered 5761 light soon.

zehnmm said:

What I am looking to find out are actual runtimes that people have been getting versus the theoretical times calculated from a formula.

Click to expand...

Zehnmm, I have not done an actual runtime test on my ROP for two reasons: 1) I use the light in short bursts, and 2) I have not wanted to deep-cycle my expensive "C" cells and by doing so reduce their life.

-Rick

Thanks RickB.

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One of the reasons that I am asking about this is that I am not getting the runtimes in my ROP setup that I thought that I would get.

RickB said:

Nitro, thanks for the info. It seems like there are several factors at play, such as resistance mods to host, the exact trip threshold of the cells' protection circuits, and maybe even variances in the bulbs' resistance. Depending on what that all adds up to, one may or may not need to multi-click to get a 5761 lit with the AW "C" cells.

I'm keeping my eye on this because I'd like to put together a 2C AW "C"-powered 5761 light soon.

Click to expand...

With AW's new switch it becomes a non-issue.

Zehnmm, I have not done an actual runtime test on my ROP for two reasons: 1) I use the light in short bursts, and 2) I have not wanted to deep-cycle my expensive "C" cells and by doing so reduce their life.

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That's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to do it. However, I have thought about doing 5-10min runs to see how many I can get.

zehnmm said:

One of the reasons that I am asking about this is that I am not getting the runtimes in my ROP setup that I thought that I would get.

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Zehnmm, about what runtime are you getting? Maybe you have a cell that's not pulling its weight. Do you have a multimeter you can use to measure the cells' voltage individually before and after a run? What are you using to charge the cells? What voltage are you charging them to?

-Rick

Hello Rick.

For my ROP with the Pelican low bulb, as I stated in my original post, I have achieved 75 min. I do have a DMM that I measure voltage with. My cells are charged at 4.10V with a Schulze charger. Using formulas, charging the 3.7V cells to 4.1V instead of 4.2 decreases the capacity by 10%. Hence, for a charge at 4.1V, instead of 3300 mah, I should get 2970 mah. If 2970 mah goes from the batteries to the bulb, I should get runtime for the Low bulb at or near 90 min. (assuming 7.0V to the bulb for a 2 amp draw.)

For my 75 min. runtime (runs of 2-5 min. with 1 min. rest in between...) that means that some 2500 mah is going from the batteries to the bulb. I was expecting 90 min. or so. Perhaps this is all I can expect.

When I finish charging the cells I measure the voltage several times, once right after the charge and the other about 3 hrs. later, and put two in my light that are close on voltage. As a matter of fact, I charge two in parallel if they are close in voltage from the start.

Thanks for your information.

Regards.

Zehnmm,

Well, it sounds like you know your way around your cells, charger and the DMM. I don't have any answers to explain the shortfall in your runtimes.

Maybe you have already seen this:

021411 said:

Done deal. I got approx. 36 minutes out of a full charge on the ROP high before it completely turned off. Not bad I suppose. The entire light was hot but nothing burned. Everything is still intact and not deformed due to the excessive heat.

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From this thread:
2C ROP stuff came in! (now with beamshots and runtime)
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/168766

Again it looks like runtime is less than calculated. I guess either the ROP bulbs draw more current than we think or the cells have less capacity than labeled.

-Rick

The capacity of the C cell is rated @ 1.5A ( 0.5C ) vs the industrial standard of 0.2C of 660mA. Under higher current draw, you 'll experience a capacity drop due to voltage sag / rising internal resistance. The following discharge curves show the different capacities you 'll get under different loads. Under 4.5A load ( about the draw of the ROP Hi ), you 'll get about 2750mAH from these cells.

AW said:

Under 4.5A load ( about the draw of the ROP Hi ), you'll get about 2750mAH from these cells.

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AW,

Thanks for the clarification. Now that you mention it I believe I have read you post similar info before.

This info matches perfectly with the results 021411 got: 2750/4500 * 60 = 36.6.

-Rick

AW: Thanks very much for sharing the information. This is very helpful to me.

RickB: Thanks for your posts, too.

FYI, I did another run-time test with the ROP Low bulb and got 82 min. This was a series of runs from 2 to 5 min. with rests in-between runs of about 1 min. I use this method because it closely parallels my actual use of the light. I calculate that for a 2 amp bulb draw, the 82 min. calculates to be 2733 mah. This is pretty good, imho.

Bottom line: After receiving some very helpful charging hints from Silverfox, I am finding that my earlier concern about not enough mah getting to these C's is without foundation. The more I use these cells, the more I like them.

Regards.