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Thread: Law enforcement. help

  1. #1

    Default Law enforcement. help

    Ok, I'm new to the site. I did the search but found nothing really useful so I thought I'd ask. I work at at prison where I have to use a flashlight on a daily bases, looking into cracks in walls and opening in steal frames. I'm looking to spend no more then $100 on a compact flashlight. My requirement are....

    1. Compact
    2. Rechargeable batteries
    3. Awesome throw.
    4. No LED's, I dont believe they have a good throw.
    5. Durable in case I have to beat in inmate with it. Purely seld-defence.
    6. Cost with shipping doesn't go over $100.

    I'm not a flashlight guru like yourselfs, but I was thinking about getting the Streamlight Strion. I think the stinger is a bit to big. But, I know you all know more about different brands and I was thinking when someone buys a Streamlight, they're really just buying the name and it's possible to get something better for less. Keep in mind I'm not looking for something cheap i'm more then willing to pay 100 for something good. Any one have any opinion on what light I should get or comments about the Strion?
    Thanks.

    I also really like the Streamlight Twin-Task 3C-UV Flashlights but it's to big to place on belt.
    Last edited by ddgarcia05; 07-26-2007 at 11:43 PM. Reason: add in.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Without knowing any further details, I'd like to throw out this one as a suggestion (if you must go incan):

    http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1317

    The WF500 might not be a true "tactical level" light, but should be sufficiently durable as long as you don't rough handle it while it's on. Pair it up with AW's 18650 batts and you'll have a bright light that's cheap to operate.

    On another note, I hope your perception of LEDs not having throw will change. The new wave of Crees will outthrow a lot of incan lights. The Pelican LAPD 7060 is probably out of your budget, but it's honestly a throw monster.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Nice suggestion but it's a bit to big to have on a belt. I just think LED are more flood lights. Feel free to recommend a LED if you have some in mind.
    But remember i'm going to something compact. 7in. or less.

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* PhantomPhoton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Quote Originally Posted by ddgarcia05 View Post
    4. No LED's, I dont believe they have a good throw.

    That statement is almost flamebait around these parts, and I would suggest that you are quite wrong. However incandescent lights do have good qualities that make them better than LEDs in certain situations. There is nothing wrong with simply liking incandescent more.

    Anyhoo, I can't think of any stock incandescent light that is rechargeable off the top of my head.
    My recommendation would be a simple Surefire 6P and and two 3-volt lithium ion RCR-123 batteries, plus a charger. There are many options that you can add on to a surefire light like higher power lamp assemblies.

    Ah wait I just remembered who makes very durable, rechargeable incandescent lights after writing all that above... oh well.

    Wolf Eyes lights can be bought here: http://www.pts-flashlights.com/
    I might suggest a wolf eyes 6M Explorer.
    Pacific Tactical Solutions gives discounts for CPF members too if you contact member Mike@PTS via PM and sign up for an account (free) at PTS.

    Hope this helps.

    And please don't "beat" the inmates; that word carries plenty of trouble with it from my experience.
    1) Neutral white, it's the new black. Heck, it's not even "new" anymore.
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    3) Proprietary cells and battery packs - Just say NO!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    I just saw the Fenix P3D CE, and i think i'm going to buy it. Keep it coming.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    it really is quite hard to have both a compact light and a beat stick at the same time... I'm sure they let you carry batons right? most metal bodied tactical lights are more than sturdy enough to survive through a beating when used like a kubatan

    I believe that Streamlight's tactical xenon series of lights has an adjustable reflector for choosing throw vs. flood!
    Last edited by Wolfhound 9K; 07-27-2007 at 02:10 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    I have the very small Surefire E1E and using the aftermarket Lumens Factory lamps it is incredible. I use the standard 40 lumen HO-E1A mostly however with rechargeables the 50 and 90 lumen lamps are very nice as well. I am not sure what the light costs now and adding the lamps or rechargeable 123 cells may bump you over the budget but probably not by much.

    This is a compact package using a well proven light as a host.....plus the little thing is just so cute how can you resist the purchase.....good luck
    Is that an ARC in your pocket or are you just small like that?

  8. #8
    Flashaholic DiCEMAN's Avatar
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    What about the Wolf-Eyes Raider9A ???
    Rechargeable, Bright as hell (with LF option) Solid built Not at all too big for the belt. ? Speak with Mike at PTS.

    DiCEMAN

  9. #9
    Retired Administrator Norm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    O Boy. I don't want to start a war here....

    Flame Bait #1 (LED vs. Incan)
    My short answer - I use and like both for different reasons.

    Flame bait #2 (Throw vs. Output)
    My short answer - I use and like both for different reasons.

    Before recommending a product - A "good" salesman will start with the following question:

    What are your needs? What is your application? Any salesman that begins a dialog with me by trying to understand my needs gets instant points in my book. On the other hand, any salesman that starts out saying his/her product is the best or his the best for me before understand my needs loses point automatically.

    LED's are great!
    INCAN's are great!
    THROW is great!
    TOTAL Output is Great!

    So based on the needs listed by ddgarcia05 - here are some things to consider before even choosing which light.

    INCAN vs LED.
    My lights are used in law enforcement. I use LED and INCAN.

    INCAN strengths
    #1 - Quality of light - Do not underestimate the vale of this, especially during searches. In my experience LED light makes things look flat and 2 dimensional. When I'm searching for drugs or other items in a parking lot, grass, gravel, etc - I love an INCAN (Hands Down). On the other hand our evidence technicians love LED, because finger prints are more visible and it makes their job easier and faster.

    #2 - Total light output. I use a MAW11 and MAW85 (Mag11 and Mag85 with AW's Incan Driver). I love the amount of total light these lights put out. Consider the following scenario. When I conduct a search in ranges of 20 yards or less - I don't like a light with a small bright hot spot. I want more of a flood light. High quality well dispersed INCAN light. IMHO a hotspot in close ranges does 2 negative things. The first is the hot spot can completely wash out on object and teh second is it distracts my eyes. My eyes follow the bouncing hotspot instead of searching the area.

    LED strengths
    #1 Much lower power consumption compared to INCAN's. Especially the new Cree emitters. If need a light that can run a long time LED's have a big advantage.

    #2 Size - It is amazing how much light you can get out of a small LED setup. I carry a P2D on my duty belt as a back up. I prefer the P2D over the P3D because I think the output of the P3D isn't that much greater given the size difference and because I throw away partially charges cells. My back up light must work. After I use my back up for a while, I don't know how much runtime remains so I just put in new batteries. I get CR123's for less than a dollar each in bulk. I would rather throw out a single partially drained batt from a P2D than 2 partially drained batts from a P3D.


    THROW vs Total Output
    THROW is how far you can project the light. Output is how much total light is being projected. My Opinion - Only choose an amount of throw to cover the range you need. If you are searching prison cells. You need very little throw. You want a hell of a lot of output. You may only need to throw 20 feet. You would be amazed by my MAW11 with a medium stipple reflector. You can light up the whole cell and it doesn’t have a hot spot that will wash out details. It also produced three levels of light. On the other hand if your looking to search across a court yard 100 yards or high ceilings, etc - you want a lot of throw. (This is primarily a function of the reflector you choose). This is where I would grab my MAW85 with a VLOP min - MOP max reflector. If I wanted even farther throw I would put a 2" deep reflector or a 2.5 Throwmaster on my MAW85.

    On patrol I carry the following lights
    #1 MAW85 (Currently equipped with a MOP reflector)- Primary Duty Light - Workhorse - Its between my legs while driving and than on my belt ring when walking.

    #2 MAW11 (Medium Stipple)- Search light - In my duty bag in the car. Ready to become my primary light if my MAW11 runs dead.

    #3 Steamlight SL-20P, Department Issued light, 2nd back up on long shift or available for another Officer - Deeper in duty bag

    #4 Fenix P2D, My lifesaver when all other lights go out, or get broken, or get left in the car, or get lost the fight etc.


    I will attach pics of these lights later. I hope this all helped. Only you can determined what is the best type, size and brand of light for your needs. Good luck.



    Last edited by mansell2; 07-27-2007 at 12:25 PM. Reason: added photos

  11. #11

    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Ok, thanks for the info. from the last post. I see the point your making. Really my use of the flashlight is going to be one where I have to use up close looking into cracks, underbeds, short up close spaces. I dont really need something that would throw 100 yards. Maybe at the most 10-15 yards when it's rack up time and I have to shine the light threw 1in glass to get there attention. Thats really whey I need something that'll throw, all other times I'm only doing up close visuals. And I want something no more then 7inches. Remember it's on my belt.
    Last edited by ddgarcia05; 07-27-2007 at 09:51 AM.

  12. #12
    *Flashaholic* greenLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Ddgarcia, our local Corrections Officers use Streamlight Strions; it fulfills all your requirements. I recently bought one at Brightguy.com - great little light.

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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    As far as Iím aware (which is not much, Iím still new to this) the smallest, cheapest, most robust incand is a Princeton Tech Rage. I have one Ė itís got a great output for its size, and quite a useful clip built into the plastic frame. Itís the only incand light that I still use (which is quite the inflammatory remark around here)

    However, be warned that it runs from 4 aaa batteries, so donít expect stella runtime. Mine will go above the hour-and-a-half mark before it yellows out. If you can get these batteries free from work, itís worth checking out. Iím assuming rechargables would work in this light. . .

    More info here: http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/princetontec_rage.htm.

    Note that PT has subsequently updated the body shape to something rounder and easier to hold. You can probably pick one up for $10 or so if you shop around. You could also switch the incand assembly for the three-LED set-up for the PT Attitude, if you wanted runtime, although itís as easy to just buy both lights.

    In general terms, PT flashlights are robust worklights, and, in my own opinion, more reliable/value for money than the cheaper lights imported from the Chinese flashlight import sites.
    "Do not go gentle into that good night,
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  14. #14
    *Flashaholic* greenLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    I completely agree with mansell:

    Quote Originally Posted by mansell2 View Post
    Before recommending a product - A "good" salesman will start with the following question:

    What are your needs? What is your application? Any salesman that begins a dialog with me by trying to understand my needs gets instant points in my book. On the other hand, any salesman that starts out saying his/her product is the best or his the best for me before understand my needs loses point automatically.
    ddgarcia already knows what features he wants in the light, so let's stop recommending our favorite light left and right and focus on which lights could serve his intended purposes and requirements.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Quote Originally Posted by greenLED View Post
    Ddgarcia, our local Corrections Officers use Streamlight Strions; it fulfills all your requirements. I recently bought one at Brightguy.com - great little light.
    I second the Strion! Nice little light. As long as 1 hour runtime is long enough for you.
    Semper Fi

  16. #16

    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    I just went down to academy, I really don't know how I walked out empty handed. I saw the polystinger for $89 and a Inova X5 $30. I was about to buy the Invova X5 but something made me put it down and walk out. I also saw a walking cain in the flashlight department, I never knew maglight made cains.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    For actual use I like the MAW11, but your size requirement eliminates it from the running.

    I will 3rd the Strion. Try the tailcap to see if you like it. Press for momentary, 2 hand twist for constant. I liked the scorpion clikie switch better. But the scorpion rubber shealth prevents it from un holstering easy. I saw a post where fivemega offers a modded scorpion to accept 18650 cell and a strion bulb. Price $60 including battery. This would required a 18650 charger. The strion can be purchased with A/C and D/C craddles included. Easy off the shelf option. I would go with the Strion for your application before a P3D (I've used both). But throwing a extra P2D in pocket wouldn't hurt either.
    Last edited by mansell2; 07-27-2007 at 12:42 PM. Reason: added link

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    *Flashaholic* carrot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    The Strion is a fantastic light. It will serve you well, but might not be heavy enough for requirement 5. I have one of my own and highly recommend it as it seems it would meet your needs perfectly.
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    If you must go with an incan I would suggest the strion as well as long as a 1 hour runtime is enough for you since it takes 2.5 hours to fully charge the battery again. If you are willing to live with an LED light then I would suggest the pelican M6 2330 (which has suprizingly good throw) or a Inova XO ( On sale at lighthound.com). I have used all 3 of these lights as well as Surefires and I keep coming back to the Pelican 2330.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Quote Originally Posted by ddgarcia05 View Post
    Nice suggestion but it's a bit to big to have on a belt. I just think LED are more flood lights. Feel free to recommend a LED if you have some in mind.
    But remember i'm going to something compact. 7in. or less.
    welcome, there maybe a long list to come,the new novatac,fenix,DX,streamlight,ultrafire,and of coarse if you want exotic McGizmo Ti if funds allow, a milkyspit mod, or wiseled,or you could look at elektrolumens.these all do led,and yes they do throw light,flood at the moment goes to the mule!!! and yes it is led.no throw.
    Last edited by TITAN1833; 07-27-2007 at 01:09 PM. Reason: add
    Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    4. No LED's, I dont believe they have a good throw.
    was thinking about getting the Streamlight Strion.
    I always wonder on this.
    noone wants a Led, but has never ever seen one in action.

    My SF 9N or 9NT are all stronger than Strion and such,
    and NOW I use my Cree @ 1 A, Flupic and 18650 modded SF 6P.
    several levels, 2+ hours on full and seems way brighter than the above incans.
    Sure, not these last 10 meters of throw the turbohead offers, but at that size and power of the incan, the led is way better.

    Why not give an actual powerful led light like the L2D-CE a try? Its just half of the cost You plan.
    If You are not confident (which I would wonder), You still can get a high power Li-Ion incan from Dealextreme or one ot the Li-Ion lights at lighthound (f.e. the 18650 Scorpion). http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?...TS&Category=53
    (which will all be eaten by a led at 1 A)


    PS: the Stinger looks like a perfect host for a led-mod: 18650 already fits in, enough space inside head for big heatsink + reflector
    Last edited by yellow; 07-27-2007 at 01:19 PM.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic Wetterman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Quote Originally Posted by ddgarcia05 View Post
    But remember i'm going to something compact. 7in. or less.
    How are you gonna beat an inmate with a light no longer than 7 inches. If you didn't have to use it for self defense I would have suggested a Streamlight strion. It's compact yeah. Can't have both, a baton and a compact light in the same package.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Strion is an excellent light and should fit your use very well. The bulb is highly resistant to breaking if dropped.

    If your use is too much for 1 battery pack, they make a piggyback version. 1 light, 2 batteries, and a charger built to charge the light and the extra pack at the same time.
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    I know you said no led's but I have this one http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4068 it has very good throw and will blind anyone you shine it at and has very good runtimes on RCR123's

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Quote Originally Posted by Pax et Lux View Post
    As far as Iím aware (which is not much, Iím still new to this) the smallest, cheapest, most robust incand is a Princeton Tech Rage. I have one Ė itís got a great output for its size, and quite a useful clip built into the plastic frame. Itís the only incand light that I still use (which is quite the inflammatory remark around here).
    The only drawback is that hardened cons aren't going to be intimidated by a cheery yellow plastic light. Maybe if they made a strike bezel... or did a version in olive drab or desert tan. Same drawback with my bright yellow G2 - I'll never drop it and not find it, but no one's gonna think, "Man! wouldn't want that upside the head!"
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  26. #26
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    If you haven't been talked out of an incan yet, I'll sell you this model, http://www.pts-flashlights.com/produ...pid=1-3-6-6015
    inexpensively from my own collection.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Well today is the day I'm going to buy something. It's between two lights. What I want is for you to help me pick the best of these two.....

    1. Steamlight Strion <----Need i say more.
    2. Fenix L2D-CE <---Awesome run time at 165 lumens

    If you were in my sisuation which would you get, and why??????

    Thanks for the help.

  28. #28
    Flashaholic* TITAN1833's Avatar
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    now i have heard enough,you need a polypropylene african walking stick and add on a photon freedom clone.cost around $30.00.it's led but the cheapest combo for attacking inmates.
    Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
    That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have
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  29. #29

    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Have you seen the Tigerlight FBOP? You may have seen Jack Bauer with one on 24. I think it is eight inches long. It was designed for the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

    It is like the light described at this link, but it does not have pepper spay and it is much shorter. http://www.flashlightreviews.com/rev...light_gold.htm

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Law enforcement. help

    Quote Originally Posted by ddgarcia05 View Post
    2. Fenix L2D-CE <---Awesome run time at 165 lumens
    I am not positive which Fenix you may be looking at (there are now several limited editions out there now--each slightly brighter than the last)--but the standard L2D-CE is rated at 135 Lumen and the P3D-CE is 160 Lumen (a significant difference in output with be numbers that are over 2x or 1/2x different in Lumen rating)...

    That said, there is not much visible difference between those two values. If you want rechargeable, the L2D-CE on NiMH 2xAA's is probably a better match for your needs. Is a bit longer than the P3D...

    The P3D-CE runs better (longer) on 2x CR123A primaries. The rechargeable '123A's just don't hold as much power and have little warning when out of juice.

    If you need adjustable lights (bed check?), then either would be nice because of the multiple levels available.

    -Bill

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