Surefire or Inova

:thinking: Thinking of getting e1L cree or the new T-1 inova k2 , do you fellows have any thoughts on this to help me out ?

Surefire - for sure but then I'm an anti-Inova kind of guy. But even if I wasn't I'd say the Surefire is going to be a better light and probably have tons of throw - just not much spill. I'm not sure if the Inova you mention has a K-2 Luxeon but if it does the K-2's were a disappointment - they were power hogs and didn't live up to much of the hype. They are history as far as LED's go now.

matrixshaman said:

Surefire - for sure but then I'm an anti-Inova kind of guy. But even if I wasn't I'd say the Surefire is going to be a better light and probably have tons of throw - just not much spill. I'm not sure if the Inova you mention has a K-2 Luxeon but if it does the K-2's were a disappointment - they were power hogs and didn't live up to much of the hype. They are history as far as LED's go now.

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That's BS. The new T1 with the K2 is a pretty decent light for 1/3 of the E1L's price.

Outdoors Fanatic said:

That's BS. The new T1 with the K2 is a pretty decent light for 1/3 of the E1L's price.

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+1 - We sell 'em both and they're both great lights. The 2007 T1 is my favorite of the revised 2007/K2 Inova line-up.

I would go with the new L1 if you have the money to pay for it. Other wise the inova series isn't too bad. An alternative to dual output from the L1 is to buy a G2-LED or 6P-LED both of which are single output LED lights that emit 80 lumens. The G2-LED costs 65 dollars and the 6P-LED costs 85 dollars. If you really need the dual output just stick with the L1.

I think you ought to wait a bit. The K2 is far inferior to the Crees. But from another thread in CPF there seems to be some problems with the SF Crees. Also now that the Luxeon Rebel has appeared, you may want to consider a light with this LED.

Windscale said:

I think you ought to wait a bit. The K2 is far inferior to the Crees. But from another thread in CPF there seems to be some problems with the SF Crees. Also now that the Luxeon Rebel has appeared, you may want to consider a light with this LED.

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The SF Cree problem's were mostly with the L1 cree. There have been no reported LED problem's with the E2L or E1L using KX1 or KX2 heads from what i've read while doing alot of searching (Still trying to catch up on my SF stuff from an extended break) Personally i would go E1L. I have held a T1 and owned a T1 for a little while (returned it) and prefer the E1L to the T1 in the area of things like ergonomics. Many can say "BS! T1 is half the price *rant* rant rant" although this seems to be the tone of CPF lately. I would go with the one you think you'll use more / would be more satafied with. For me that would be an E1L cree (KX1) but i love my E1L (Old KL1) and have had bad experiences with Inova in the past. So i would say which ever one suits you best :twothumbs

Outdoors Fanatic said:

That's BS. The new T1 with the K2 is a pretty decent light for 1/3 of the E1L's price.

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My 2007 Inova T1 throws slightly further than my Cree version Surefire E2L and the T1 has oodles more spill. It lights up the entire width of the road. I haven't tried an E1L, but it is bound to have less throw than the E2L and 2007 Inova T1.

The E2L's abrupt changes in diameter and less than useful pocket clip make it more difficult for me to insert it in a pocket or case. I actually prefer the Inova's shape and end mounted lanyard hole, but the E2L's battery life is so much longer and the E2L runs very cool. The T1's head starts getting warm after a moment or two of use.

Despite the CPF talk against the K2 LED, the new Inova T1 has an amazing beam and its construction is top notch. Wish the battery current was less (T1 draws 675 mA. verus E2L Cree's meager 152 mA.)

lightr07 said:

The SF Cree problem's were mostly with the L1 cree.

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ONLY with the L1 Cree AFAIK and that problem is being resolved in production right now.

FWIW the G2L's and 6PL's arrived today.

Outdoors Fanatic said:

That's BS. The new T1 with the K2 is a pretty decent light for 1/3 of the E1L's price.

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Everyone has their opinions but there is a lot of evidence to backup what I said about K2 Luxeons. They suck a lot of battery power for what light they put out - many charts have shown this. There are way way more efficient and brighter LED's now. There are very few lights being made with the K2 compared to Cree's, SSC P4's and now the Luxeon Rebel. K2's IMO are only now being used to build some lights because they are dirt cheap. I bought a K2 direct from Future and it was cheap even before the Cree came to market. And that is what I think of Inova and how they build lights. Mass marketed Target store junkola. But that's my opinion and like it or not I'm sticking with it even though I know there are some Inova fans here. We can all have our opinions. And I won't call yours BS.

The advent of Cree LED's did not make Luxeon III/K2 lights instantly obselete. There are many fine lights still being made with Luxeon emitters and I would absolutely count the T1 among them. While the Crees/SSC's and better Rebels certainly have output and efficiency advantages the K2 was still an improvement, albeit incremental, over the Luxeon III which was still considered state-of-the-art less than 1 year ago.

There are relatively few lights with K2's because Luxeon had ENORMOUS delays between announcement and production and most makers are either switching or sitting on the fence to see if the Cree/SSC's pan out for reliability/durability or waiting for the Rebels (which I expect is the case with Inova). The K2's DID live up to the hype - but they got surpassed MONTHS after they finally made it to market.

While I'm not a big fan of Inova being in stores like Target, after companies like mine helped build the brand into what it is, it's unfair and incorrect to call them junk simply because they are sold there - that's just snobbery. Inova still has the finest fit/finish on the market pretty much bar none (I'm only saying 'pretty much' because I have an ASP TRIAD 2 on my desk and OMGOMGOMG but $180) and they make a very high quality product and a very reasonable price.

The Inova T series lights are not (thank god) available at stores like Target making that point, which I take exception to anyway, moot.

I handle alot of lights. I go to a few tradeshows every year and we sell many of the best brands and what we don't sell I often buy or get samples of to compare with what we sell. There is no doubt in my mind that Inova is making a well engineered, beautifully assembled product. Feel free to crap on them for their apporach to marketing the lights, I'll happily join in on that, but to dismiss their products as, "Mass marketed Target store junkola," speaks to either a lack of knowledge and familiarity with the products or mere snobbery.

matrixshaman said:

Everyone has their opinions but there is a lot of evidence to backup what I said about K2 Luxeons. They suck a lot of battery power for what light they put out - many charts have shown this. There are way way more efficient and brighter LED's now. There are very few lights being made with the K2 compared to Cree's, SSC P4's and now the Luxeon Rebel. K2's IMO are only now being used to build some lights because they are dirt cheap. I bought a K2 direct from Future and it was cheap even before the Cree came to market. And that is what I think of Inova and how they build lights. Mass marketed Target store junkola. But that's my opinion and like it or not I'm sticking with it even though I know there are some Inova fans here. We can all have our opinions. And I won't call yours BS.

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I know the K2 is not the most efficient LED on the market, but it doesn't mean the T1 is an useless flashlight just because is not fitted with newest LED from Cree. It is still a solid piece of gear, with top notch construction, excellent fit, superb finish, solid warranty and made in the U.S at a great price. I'm a hardcore SureFire fan, but I think anyone who says that the Inova T Series are mass marketed junk, needs to have his head checked (or never had previous contact with said product). No offense meant, I just believe this opinion don't make a whole lot of sense.

If you are considering an El1 you really should throw a Novatac 85 or 120P into the decision mix. It is a great light. Runs perfectly on rechargables too.

Review:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/171533

cave dave said:

If you are considering an El1 you really should throw a Novatac 85 or 120P into the decision mix. It is a great light. Runs perfectly on rechargables too.

Review:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/171533

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Now we are talking REAL quality - the other Nova. :nana: And the only kind of Nova I'll ever own.

matrixshaman said:

Now we are talking REAL quality - the other Nova. :nana: And the only kind of Nova I'll ever own.

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Have you seen, used or handled one?

And just for clarification I'll say this again - I don't like Inova and that's my opinion. I don't know why it seems I can't have an opinion on them without it being implied I'm crazy ("needs to have his head checked") a snob or a lack of knowledge. It seems odd to me that people can't see Inova as just glitzy looking cheap overpriced lights BUT I assume that is because everyone has different TASTE'S and different opinions. I'll admit my experience with Inova is tainted by the simple fact that every experience I've had surrounding an Inova has been a bad one. Maybe I should just say I don't like Inova and leave it at that. MattK - you've got a good rep here as a dealer and I'd gladly buy lights from you but I'm sorry I can't like every brand that you carry. I've picked up and played with a lot of Inova lights to check them out here at a local gun shop and I have yet to find one I liked much less one I would buy. So I've looked closely at many models and they just are not my kind of light - again just MY OPINION. I've bought a lot of inexpensive Chinese lights and like many of them so I don't think I'd qualify as a snob. I'm not trying to influence anyone here about Inova except the person who originally asked 'Surefire or Inova'. I was just giving him one person's opinion on them. And I'd still like to think everyone can have one.

matrixshaman said:

And just for clarification I'll say this again - I don't like Inova and that's my opinion.

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You don't like Inova. You've written that 5 times in this brief thread. We get the point. Let's move on.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - I just want to change yours or get you to re-examine it.

Because I sell so many brands I don't really have 'loyalty' issues. Frankly I'd rather sell the Surefire - the price AND margins are higher.

So, I ask this; go find and a 2007 Inova T1 to play with - borrow one for a few days if you can - then tell me what you think. You may be surprised....

For the money, I don't think you can go wrong with the 2007 T1. The light is so well made and the forward clicky just feels great. HAIII coating to boot for less than $40 bucks. It's just a solid light. Surefire makes great stuff and I have a couple (no LED versions though) but the price point of the T1 with similiar build quality and coating makes it a winner for me. The spill is awesome and blends in nicely with the spot. I was really impressed for the $.

MattK said:

FWIW the G2L's and 6PL's arrived today.

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ooooh no. i just got my paycheck. MUST. NOT. BUY. MUST. ... Do'h.