NovaTac 120P Runtime plot

Hi all,

I finally got round to trying my hand at a runtime plot.

[More plots added in posts #11, 25, 27 and 39] Updated 19/8/07
[Advice needed, see post #27]

Flashlight: Novatac 120P
Cell: MP700mAh unprotected RCR123A

Two plots; one starting from the Maximum 120 lumens setting, and another starting from the 85 lumens setting. Same cell used for both plots.




From 120 Lumens - 35 minutes till first stepdown
From 85 Lumens - 62 minutes till first stepdown

Notes:

The output is not in lumens, it is the readings from my lightbox

I did not run the light all the way down till low-battery flash, so the lights still had some runtime left. I was mainly looking to find the runtime for the upper levels (and I got very bored taking reading every minute )

On both runs the flashlight started to get slightly warm to the touch after about 10 minutes. An icepack was placed on the light intermittently to keep the light "lukewarm"


Regards,

Terry

BTW: Don't take my runtime graphs too seriously, they are the first I've done and are only single runs. Hopefully someone like Chevrofreak will do some proper testing...

Thanks for your efforts Terry! Seems to confrim the speculations I have read that the emitters in the two models have the same efficiency. Novatac just did not program 120 lumens into the 85p models. The user guide says "maximum setting: 85 or 120 lumens (30 minutes runtime)." This lead me to believe that they each had a runtime of 30 minutes at their respective maximum levels. I thought 120p had a more efficient emmitter because this is what HDS did with their 60 lumens and 42 lumen models. Having a more efficient emitter would have been one of the reasons why I choose the 120p. I figured I could get a 120p and get over an hour of runtime if I reprogramed the maximum level to 85 lumens. Now I see that this is not the case. I still like having that little extra even if it is not that much. Just don't know if it's worth $40.00. I might have bought the 85p if I'd have known. Oh well what can you do?

Edit: Oops. I did not read closely enough. I though they were a runtime of two different lights.

So the Novatacs get brighter as they run? These discharge graphs don't look as flat as they do on HDS lights.

I think it would be best to run a 120P starting out at the 85 Lumen level to see what kind of chart that produces before making any real conclusions from this test. Or has someone already done that? I'm still glad to have the 120P - an extra battery takes care of any shortness in runtime and you can always crank it down a notch or two but you can't crank the 85 up any more if you need it (save a mod).

matrixshaman, this graph has the 120 starting off at the 85 lumen mark.
the line is hard to see because it's in yellow.

hopefully more with the 120 and 85 lights will do runtimes to confirm this speculation of both models being the same light with the only difference being one more level.

Here is where I saw some of the inital discusions about the emitters being the same. Energie did runtime of his 85T

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172179&highlight=novatac

Oddjob said:

Here is where I saw some of the inital discusions about the emitters being the same. Energie did runtime of his 85T

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172179&highlight=novatac

Click to expand...

Energie got 62 minutes before first step-down from his 85T, which is identical to my 120P in 85 lumens mode.

I think he did his test by eye observation, so unless he missed a step-down it would tend to indicate that both models have the same bin LED???

I've nearly completed the runtimes with a primary cell, will post them later tonight.

Terry

Oddjob said:

Seems to confrim the speculations I have read that the emitters in the two models have the same efficiency... I thought 120p had a more efficient emmitter because this is what HDS did with their 60 lumens and 42 lumen models.

Click to expand...

Some of the emitters put into the HDS x60 models were more efficient than those in the x42. I wouldn't say all of them are guaranteed to be so. I suspect HDS installed whatever crop of emitters he happened to have on hand, then started calibrating and binning the finished lights. Whatever passed his specs for x60 went into the x60 pile. Whatever didn't, didn't. Once there were enough units in the x60 to satisfy the sales projections, remaining units (whether they failed at 60, or were simply not yet tested) could have been calibrated and tested for 42.

This is purely speculation on my part. I'm sure Henry would deny that this was done - I believe he may have already denied it in the past. I'm sure he would claim that it doesn't make sense to rate a unit for 42 if it could pass at 60 - you're losing the revenue from the higher rated part. I'll argue that it doesn't make sense to try to sell all of your lights at the highest rating, even if they can achieve it. You need to have a certain percentage of your models available to sell to a lower end market. Every electronics manufacturer does it. Sure, it would be great if every light sold at the higher price of the x60, but not everyone is willing to pay the price. You've got to sell some at the lower x42 price to take advantage of that market segment. If this weren't true, there would not have ever been the separate distinctions between the higher cost Ultimate models and the lower cost Basic models. There was zero production cost difference to HDS regardless of whether it was Ultimate or Basic. Why sell Basic at all? Why not sell every one at the higher price of the Ultimate, and make more profit? The truth is you'll make more profit if you sell a percentage at a lower price level.

Anyway, all this is just my opinion. I'm probably wrong anyway. What is fact is that some x42 models out there were just as efficient as some x60 models. I happen to own a B42 and a U60GT. They both run for about the same time when set to 42 lumens (roughly 50 minutes on a li-ion cell). They are both approximately the same efficiency. I've never modified either light. They both came that way from the factory.

I would expect there are some Novatac 120 lights which are more efficient than the 85s. I would also expect there are many cases where the efficiency of the two models won't differ much at all. It's still the luck of the draw - Luxeon lottery, if you like to call it that.

Just my not so humble opinion.

Thanks eltel999. I we really appreciate your efforts. This is going to be a handy little chart that I'll refer to in the future. Thanks again! :thumbsup:

eltel999 said:

Energie got 62 minutes before first step-down from his 85T, which is identical to my 120P in 85 lumens mode.

I think he did his test by eye observation, so unless he missed a step-down it would tend to indicate that both models have the same bin LED???

Click to expand...

I´ve made a second test.
And I´ve controlled the brightness levels with a lux-meter.
Same results (see Post 12).

As promised, some more plots:

Rechargeable Cell




Primary Cell




Cells Compared




These are not complete runtime plots. At 144 mins the run from maximum on a primary cell was down to Level 11(2.7 lumens) 6 on my light meter.

Cheers,

Terry

P.S. Energie,
:thumbsup: Looks like you've been busy too!

WOW, so there is NO benefit to running primaries with this light?! You would think primaries would perform slightly better with nearly double the capacity of an rcr.

Supernam said:

WOW, so there is NO benefit to running primaries with this light?! You would think primaries would perform slightly better with nearly double the capacity of an rcr.

Click to expand...

I think the benefit would be on the lower levels. I wonder what the runtimes would be for RCR123's vs CR123's at 10 lumens.

Supernam said:

WOW, so there is NO benefit to running primaries with this light?! ...

Click to expand...

Not strictly true, if you look at the area under each plot the primary cell does have a greater capacity but it's output is distributed over a longer time span.

219 minutes from starting at max, the primary cell is still running next to me. Where's that low battery signal

The RCR cells seem to give a slightly higher light output for a longer initial period and then rapidly gives up. But hell it's still good old "guilt free lumens"

Looking at the runtime graphs it looks like the 120P is optimized for the CR123 if you compare it to the AW RCR123. The AW RCR123 may be the hottest protected LiIon (is it protected?), but the Powerizer 650mAh RCR123 is the hottest RCR123 out there. I know that some people are reluctant to use unprotected RCR123's but they have their place if they are monitored. Not sure about the low drop off of the NovaTac to protect unprotected LiIon's. If I had a NovaTac I would be experimenting, carefully, with the Powerizer 3.7-4.2 volt RCR123.

The NovaTac is very efficant with the 85 lumen setting and is surely the best way to go with a Primary CR123, or RCR123.

Bill

eltel999, thanks a bunch for the great runtime graphs!

Finally some did a runtime for the 120 and thank you for your effort. The 120 ran for the same amount of time at 85 Lumen as the 85 version at Max. Rechargeable cells is doing very well on this torch with higher lumen output. Non rechargeable ran longer as it step down in lumen, as expected since it has greater capacity. Rechargeable lumen dropped off rapidly and you may be caught out so always bring an extra one with you.

I have noticed different behaviour with the Soshine 3V rechargeable. Always do a battery recognision when you changed to a different Voltage cells. I got only 20min runtime on max with the 85P when I reseted the torch with the 4.1V RCR123 (Soshine is about 3.8V), its dropped down to the next level and ran for another 40min. Once I reset the torch with the Soshine, it ran for 45min Max but dropped off rapidly.

eltel999, thanks for the graphs.

If you have a HDS, could you plot a runtime graph of it? I'm wondering if your setup will detect it as fluctuating too or it's just the Novatac that does it.

I am a bit disappointed that the Novatac graph isn't flat. The 120lumen runtime is understandable, but the 85lumen should be a bit flatter..

The fluctuation could be the result of the multimeter.

I think those are plotting marks on the graph that make it not look flat. I do runtimes and they are not completely flat looking, but believe me that 120 running at 85 looks super flat to me. Get a light meter and try it out. I usually use bounce with a lightmeter, but a lightbox is better.

Bill