HDS? Vs novatak? what can he bring? us a killer app?

yaesumofo

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OH an Important note to the admins. This is not an hds vs Novatac thread. it doesn't concern itself with any of those private issues. as the creator of this thread I ask that all posters stay away from those topics since they have little to do with this discussion. Admins PLease honor this whsi to stay on topic by removing posts once requested if they drift into the territory which we seek to avoid. Thank you.

OK guys Novatac is here and their product is a good one. some are less than happy some are over the moon. I am neither. The Novatac edc 120P is about as good as a NON KISS programmable flashlight gets...today.
OK that said the HDS EDC was/is a fine flashlight. The Novatac is an evolution or possibly an amalgam of the HDS and ARC designs with a whole new Operating system User interface. (Boy dO I wish I could pay Novatac to replace the HDS UI with the new Novatac UI...WOW)
Anyway the point of this post is to question the user-group to the point where we get to thinking. maybe together maybe apart. doesn't matter as long as we create dialogue which becomes meaningful.
OK rumor has it that HDS will be coming to market soon. what do you want to see in this new programmable light that is not available and easy to do using what is available today?

I am trying to figure out just what Henry can do to excite us into plonking down another $150 down for a new light who's DNA we are all too familiar with...at least I am. between the ARC 4 + ...several HDS EDC's and now a Novatac edc 120P.
The most recent Novatec edc 120P Clearly blows all the others away. at least form a lumen for dollar value...the userinterface...ease of use and quality of manufacture. they are all FINE on m unit.
Henry has a very hard act to follow. I am interested in hearing from you guys Just what is it going to take to get you to buy in?
What will send you packing. For example I wouldn't mind a little backward movement in the physical design dept...so what.

What do you guys think comes next? a usb plug? hell why not blue-tooth?
Personally I would love a IR interface to the light easy and simple and no wires....Why Not?Isn't that where we really want to go? the ability to be the master of the UI? OK that's a ways off yet.

OK there is the Gotham cool light. the Dragon MrBulk...a real weapon light,...the ARC PD...we know about this one for the most part. and now a new programmable light from Henry. What in the world can he possibly do to compete?

Anyway we look at it between the elcheapo Asian factors keep cranking out lights with new emitters as fast as the come out. The custom houses are kinder to us. Taking care to make fine lights which generally are a few major cuts above the Asian offerings. Hey you have got to hand it to them their sheer speed to market with new technology is amazing.
Now we have the likes of Henry who has a desire to engineer the best lights possible. His standards are high...so are mine. Bt for the life of me I can't see him bringing an earthshattering feature what did they call it?

The killer app.
What is flashlights killer app?
BTW please don't give anything away that you don't want stolen borrowed or otherwise lifted from this group only to find it in a Asian light.
This is a pretty darn public. and I dont see any company thanking us on the CPF for the ideas which have made the maglite the Maglite of today.
Thoughts ideas sorry about the rant. I find it very interesting so please chime in. this is not a this vs that thread. it is more like one thought process vs another....
Yaesumofo
 

xiaowenzu

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OK that said the HDS EDC was/is a fine flashlight. The Novatac is an evolution or possibly an amalgam of the HDS and ARC designs with a whole new Operating system User interface.
As far as I'm concerned (and most users will agree), the Novatacs blows the legendary HDS out of the water - it's brighter, cheaper, better built, and has an improved U.I interface that's nothing short of brilliant... second to only the Surefire U2 interface, IMO. The Novatac 120P is the most customizable U.I I've ever come across for a mass production light (including even some non-production, custom ones!):D

Overwhelmingly, judging from all the praise here.. the majority of 'Novac' owners are more than satisfied with the light, and that's a big success for Novatac considering the enormous amount of hype generated up to the release of the light - not surprisingly, the Novatacs lived up to the hype and even surpassed our expectations. :popcorn:

However there remains, a single gripe... one that's made many people disappointed, and many have complained about on CPF: It's the pocket clip. It's practical but it simply doesn't look that asthetically pleasing. However, thank goodness it's removable! Other than that, I have no complaints about my Novatac 120... the best light out there for it's size (at the moment) :party:
 
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regulator

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I am behind on what Henery is doing with the new light. Is the HDS going to look the same as the EDC120 but with a different UI and electronics or is it a different looking light? Sorry but I missed the early discussions.
 

:)>

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Excellent questions Yaesumofo.

Regarding UI:

The bar is set pretty high because the new Surefire Titan UI and the Novatac UI are pretty much top notch. I love the ideas of the Titan's UI giving access to nearly any light level between the highest and lowest setting. I love the ideas of the Novatac's UI giving near immediate access to 4 levels and momentary access to the highest level while using the light.

I guess that if HDS could marry these 2 concepts to some degree, that would be an interesting development but not ground breaking because these 2 user interfaces are pretty darn nice in my opinion.

Regarding LED choice:

This is the most challenging to me as there seem to be new ones coming to market all the time. It is my view that the Cree is the best package on the market today but it seems to be the most unique and therefore the most limiting LED choice available.

Since there is so much that is available now and more to come in the future, I will leave this alone and simply say that the most important choice for me today regarding the LED in expensive lights is that it is upgradeable. Preferably by HDS and not by only modder's on CPF as that will void the warranty.

Regarding other items:
  1. Durability / Toughness: Henry's posts about durability caught my eye. Building the toughest high performance flashlight on the planet would be an instant selling point to me. Being able to demonstrate the toughness so that the claims of toughness can be substantiated is also important to me.
  2. Water Resistance: Novatac's claim that the light is WATER-PROOF to 66 feet caught my eye and provided me with additional motivation to purchase the light. I don't like the claims of WATER-RESISTANCE; I prefer to know that my light will work if submerged in water and 66 feet is more than enough.
  3. Efficiency apart from the LED: Henry's ideas on efficiency also caught my eye. Increased battery life is a major consideration for me. If the new HDS lights could be engineered to provide a higher level of efficiency, then I would be very impressed.
  4. Lighter weight while retaining durability.
  5. A meaningful way to change the focus of the beam from spot to flood will always be high on my list.
 

parnass

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UI? Brightness? No, it's much simpler.

I want a lanyard attachment point at the very back of the tailcap that won't stick out and interfere a holster, catch on a pocket, or poke a leg -- something like a large lanyard hole as found in the Inova T and X series lights.

I have an HDS EDC. Its short, chunky shape make it difficult for me to retrieve and carry in hand for longer time periods, especially in cold weather and with a touch of arthritis. I've added rubber O-rings to improve grip and they serve as a poor man's lanyard attachment point. That's not good enough.

I've not drunk the Novatac Kool Aid because it has the same problem.

inner-tube-lights.jpg
 

alanagnostic

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I agree with much of what has been said already.

I would love a light that allowed you to dial in the amount of light you actually need like the Titan. I hope many of the high-end lights will eventually go this direction but I have no idea what technological barriers there are to this format.

I also want a larger body style available...something that I can use 17670's in. As I get more lights I'm realizing that the larger ones (like the Surefire E2E) fit my hands best. I love the size of my EDC's, but a light about 4.5 inches fits my hand better.

I also want the LED to be easily upgradable (by Henry). I don't want to mod it myself and I don't want to void the warranty. We all know there will be brighter and more efficient LED's coming along in the next few years and I want at least one premium light that I can send back to get the best and brightest LED for. I'm certainly not going to do that for all my light...just one or two of them.

I also want the clickie to be ultra reliable. Don's PD's appeal to me (although I don't own one) because of their perceived durability and KISS principle. If he still made aluminum PD's with Crees or Seouls I would probably have one. The clickie on my B42 went south on me a while ago (probably from reprogramming it...people look at you like you're a nut when you're clicking your light 250 times :poke:). I got a replacement for it but I don't want to have to count on a warranty to replace parts in 10 years, because you never know if a company will be in business that long.

That's my wish list. If Henry just keeps a similar UI and keeps his quality up with about 120 lumens out the front for about $200 or less I will be happy. My EDC's are still the ones that are on my hip everyday.
 

prinsen-ranch

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I've been thinking about that issue in a closely related context. At the beginning of the year I planned to get either a new Novatac or the latest ARC, whichever came first. I now have the Novatac and am wondering if I also want to get the ARC when it becomes available. My answer is probably not.

The Novatac gives me functionally all I look for in an EDC light, but I'm still not completely satisfied. What I really want is the form factor of the Fenix P1D ce with the build quality of the Novatac and UI of the Surefire U2. I don't think this is currently possible with the batteries and emitters available.

With 123s there's a limit to how thin the battery case can get without feeling cheesy (assuming no ti or other unobtanium). The Fenix has IMO crossed that line to make it so small. The Novatac is close to my ideal thickness, and the Surefires are perhaps a little too hefty. Physically smaller batteries just don't have the runtime or power with current emitters, but it's getting surprisinly close.

A modest lumen jump - say up to 200, doesn't do much for me so there needs to be both a shrinkage in overall size and an improvement in UI for me to "need" another expensive light.

I guess I'm waiting for that "killer app."

Mark
 

flashy bazook

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I think yaesumofo is asking a key question (key for all flashlights): what would propel a company forward given the tough competitive environment faced by all? And he is asking for a creative suggestion, I think, not for a personal preference. And of course changes that would keep the basic formfactor of a flashlight (small, easily portable and pointable!) and survival orientation (it helps you survive the environment around you) unchanged. Some kind of big breakthrough. Here are some ideas, some more far fetched than others (fair warning given!).

How about a timer? So the flashlight starts flashing and helps to wake you up or to synchronize an operation? (think of a strobe with the flashlight aimed at your face). If wireless capability is available, the same flashlight can go off with a pre-agreed light signal so that an operation can start even if the time is not pre-determined and yet be properly synchronized.

How about a ringer to go with the timer? (so you wake up even if you have turned around and no longer face the flashlight, at least in circumstances where the sound going off is not a problem).

How about a flash-drive computer memory chip? So your flashlight can act as an all-around urban survival kind of tool.

How about an infra-red remote control kind of gizmo (to transfer the computer data easily to a computer, and to allow for a 2-way communication, so the UI can be programmed?).

How about a user-settable PWM frequency? So you get the max efficiency your own eyes and perception can allow?

How about a setting that can affect the tint? (don't know if LED technology can allow this, maybe in the future?).

How about a link to a camera, so the flashlight can act like a proper flash?

How about a holographic emitter that can display small amounts of information? (responding to a secret UI signal, or perhaps your thumbprint or even retina scan). What I am thinking of is Bourne Identity kind of stuff (your main bank account password, for instance, your locker keypad # where you keep your bug out stash, etc.).

Once you have the emitter, your flashlight can also become a very high tech key: imagine projecting information, like a bar code, which you have your home electronic lock understand (or your car...safety deposit box...).

How about the same technology being able to be used for payments? You flash your light to the equivalent of today's credit card readers and you pay for gas, groceries...

OK, some of this sounds like science fiction, but I do not think that most are beyond today's technology.
 

senna94

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I would love to see Novatac follow through with a USB interface for their lights that would allow you to visually see and set the settings of your light exactly as you want it on your computer. Also, if you could save different set ups and just upload the one you want at any time via software would be great. Hopefully Novatac will make this a reality soon. This would be an monumental addition to an already awesome UI.
:popcorn:
 

Katdaddy

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I would love to see Novatac follow through with a USB interface for their lights that would allow you to visually see and set the settings of your light exactly as you want it on your computer. Also, if you could save different set ups and just upload the one you want at any time via software would be great. Hopefully Novatac will make this a reality soon. This would be an monumental addition to an already awesome UI.
:popcorn:

Now that's what I would like to see!!!!:popcorn::popcorn:
 

mraymer

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I would prefer bluetooth over USB, wireless is the way to go in my opinion. The drawback I see with using USB is that you're going to lose the ability to expose the light to water. A little rubber flap over the USB connection will work to keep dust out, but not water. This could be circumvented by placing the USB connection inside the light, but who wants to open their light every time you want to connect it to your computer? While most people probably wouldn't change their configuration on a daily basis, it would still be a hassle, opening the light, messing with cables. I would rather configure my light by simply setting it near my computer and letting them pair up via bluetooth. I agree with others however, have profiles that you can easily and quickly upload to the light. You could also provide enough storage in the light itself to store several profiles allowing people to quickly and easily switch between them with just a couple of clicks instead of changing each brightness level, mode, etc.

A nice option I would like to see, if done right, would be an LCD battery meter or power indicator built into the light somewhere, either on the tailcap or into the body itself. I'm kind of torn on this as it would affect the durability of the light. You probably wouldn't be able to drop this or throw it against a concrete wall 200 times and it survive unscathed. Something like a representative picture of a battery and as the power becomes depleted the color on the battery would fade or drop down. Or as simple as a several bars all lit up and as power is drained the bars turn off. I think this would be neat, but it would also make the light more fragile. It would also require additional power from the battery itself to power this feature. Crudely drawn concepts of both of these below.

 

Casual Flashlight User

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I am trying to figure out just what Henry can do to excite us into plonking down another $150 down for a new light who's DNA we are all too familiar with...

Yaesu, you'll lay down the cash because you will know that you are getting a high quality tool that will serve you well. :thumbsup:

My personal belief is that Henry created the HDS, the NovaTac and that he will go on to create better in the future...in all honesty though, there isn't an awfull lot that can be done to enhance the current design IMO (then again, I'm not a top flashlight designer, I expect Henry to prove me wrong on this). :)


CFU
 

TeK

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A nice option I would like to see, if done right, would be an LCD battery meter or power indicator built into the light somewhere, either on the tailcap or into the body itself. I'm kind of torn on this as it would affect the durability of the light. You probably wouldn't be able to drop this or throw it against a concrete wall 200 times and it survive unscathed. Something like a representative picture of a battery and as the power becomes depleted the color on the battery would fade or drop down. Or as simple as a several bars all lit up and as power is drained the bars turn off. I think this would be neat, but it would also make the light more fragile. It would also require additional power from the battery itself to power this feature. Crudely drawn concepts of both of these below.

What about going for e-ink instead of LCD to save power? It may be harder to see in the dark though and may require... a backlight :ironic:
 

yaesumofo

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This remeins to be seen.
Keep in mind the concept is not new or orignal. and has been sold as the A2 for some ears now it is a very successiful product. Will the exchange of the regulated hotwire for an emitter and a titanium body be eough?
Don't get me wrong I love the idea of this light. I plan on owning one.
Killer app? Doubtful besides we are not talking about PD's or Mcgizmos lights in this thread.
Yaesumofo

The killer app is right here.

mcLunaSol27-proto.jpg
 

yaesumofo

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A great deal has been said. I suppose a battery voltage reading could be implemented as a startup feature... a certain number of flashles could give us a very accurate voltage reading.
It is important when dealing with lithiium cells (or any other batteries) that in order to give a accurate reading the battery must be tested under a load. there is a companie which makes ver accurate battery meters using this technique. It would be nice to see this as an available mode in one of these lights.

My point reall started when I Learned that Henry of HDS and ARC 4+ fame would be comming to market with a flashlight designed and priced I suppose to compete with the current NovaTac offering. What in the world can Henry bring us that we don't have? a bettery reading? OK soounds cool a new turbo mode? maybe doubful. a 200 lumen light? Can others be far behind?

There ARE a lot of good ideas here. I am partial to m own notion of being able to communicate with and set up the light via a infrared interface (wh IR? Many laptops have them. many PDS's have them it is cheap. It would work. The IR interface is WAY less costly and mjuch less of a powerhog than Bluetooth.
One advantage to using USB would be the ability to charge the light using the usb connection.
One other idea I have is to set up the new light so it may be induction charger. no removing the cell for charging just drop in the whole unit into a recpetical and the light will charge...
None of these are killer apps though.
Keep going.
Yaesumofo
 

Hans

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1. A light that runs on a wide variety of different batteries and rechageables, with a 1xAA pack as the basis.

2. Proven ruggedness and reliability and perfect quality control.

3. A really good clip and a lanyard attachment at the end of the battery tube.

4. A turbo head for good throw.

Hans
 
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