Lifetime flashlight service? Is this idea Bull Sh)t?

yaesumofo

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OK Guys I am feeling a little pissed.
We are being taken advantage of.

How do companies offer "LIFETIME" warrantees with out the parts to back it up? (For example there are no more reflectors for HDS EDC flashlights)

ARC did pretty much the same thing with the arc LS line of flashlights I do not believe they are supported by the lifetime warrantee.. The ARC 4 + support amounts to a generous BUYBACK not a repair. What if I want the light I bought to work like it should? I am SOL that's what.

I wonder how we are supposed to trust companies like HDS Novatac ARC and anybody else who sell us flashlights and give us very generous Lifetime warrantees only to go out of or sell the business and the responsibility of future support, one would think, and then restart under another LLC having sold the the "old" HDS EDC to somebody else (NOVATAC) and one would think the responsibility of the lifetime warrantee for the HDS EDC's.
Ok The point is SureFire honors their responsibility they even go beyond the call of duty at times.

ARC doesn't. Just try to have an arc LSH-P's emitter repaired.. OK I have heard all about peters generous offer to buy back malfunctioning ARC 4+ flashlights. Nice offer but this doesn't honor the original promise to fix the light if it breaks.

I don't know who to trust anymore and it pisses me off.
Seriously Do you think FENIX if it exists in 5 years will be able to honor a warrantee?
Ok I am not talking about honorable dealers here I am talking about the manufactures.
OK guys like McGizmo offer no warrantee implied or otherwise and he sells just as many lights as he can make If believe that if I were need some service on a PD that he would perform it at a reasonable fee. If the problem was as a result of some sort of shortcoming of the light Don may choose to take care of the problem in some other way.

How do I trust other companies who have in the past been less than completely honest with us? How Can we allow ourselves to be manipulated in this way by the use of a BS Promise to fix a flashlight for life?

I would love to hear what you guys expect from companies who expect us to purchase their expensive lights with a promise of a lifetime of service. Some of these companies may not be able to fulfill this commitment.
Why not just not offer a "lifetime" warrantee? Don never has and I still buy his lights.
Personally I do not need to be misled or lied to.
If a flashlight is a quality instrument and I feel confident in the unit. A piece of paper saying that if the thing breaks 25 years down the road they will fix it means nothing to me unless it is real and backed by a true value.
How do you feel?
Yaesumofo
 

xiaowenzu

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Generally speaking, 'lifetime warranties' denotes the lifetime of the particular company in question. If it goes out of business then, tough luck I'd say. :shrug: Having said that, American flashlight companies (Maglite, Pelican, Surefire, Inova, etc) have been around for eons, while Chinese companies come and go out in bankrupt frequently. So, practically speaking, 'lifetime warranties' usually applies to American brands.

Also, the 'lifetime warranties' offered by Chinese manufacturers, are dodgy because they charge you for the parts. So if you decide to return your light for repair, yes they fix it for free but then charge you money for it - and it can turn out to be very expensive in the end. So basically it's free service + not free parts. :thumbsdow
 

lightemup

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I feel the same way for 'lifetime' warranties that are not honoured. For cheaper lights or 'play' lights it is not so much of an issue for me. I'll throw them away, and I have backup lights available. I buy them for a 'wow' and fun factor. More expensive lights with lifetime warranties however are a different kettle of fish.

I don't put newer / smaller companies in the same boat as Surefire, Streamlight and yes ;) Maglite as far as quality / warranty support go. These companies have a history and have earnt my respect through durability and warranty support. So I will be substantially less happy if I run into warranty problems with them. Mileage of other cpfers is bound to vary on this issue.

In essence, I suppose I take all warranty claims with a grain of salt. If one company 'goes under' or starts providing poor warranty service, I will buy elsewhere. It all comes down to acceptable risk, and cost benefit analysis.
Just my opinion.
 

DUQ

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I understand where your coming from yaesumofo. For me; all I expect from a company is around one to two years of warranty. After that it will be my responsibility.
 

turbodog

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With the current state of led improvements does anyone really believe they will still be actually using any current light in 2-3 years?

:crackup:
 

dougie

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As a pragmatist I don't really believe or trust warranties which suggest lifetime cover as in today's global markets NO company is exempt from mergers or take overs let alone insolvency.

Personally I am pleasantly surprised if any company provides a warranty repair beyond 1 - 2 years and my purchasing decisions reflect this philosophy. The most expensive flashlight I've ever bought was the Gladius and my original decision was influenced by the lights merits and the fact that Ken Good was at that time involved in Strategos/Blackhawk. Unfortunately Ken has moved on but I am reasonably confident that Blackhawk will honour the original warranty as my particular unit was one of the very early models which had the all inclusive warranty.

However, whilst I'm optomistic that Blackhawk would probably honour the warranty should the need arise I'm not naive enough to think that they necessarily would.

With this in mind and unless I was particularly affluent (which I'm not) I wouldn't ever prurchase any ultra expensive light which I wasn't prepared to take a gamble on.

Doug
 

wakibaki

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Yes, it's a bullshit idea. (Let's not mince our words here). But I don't think for the reasons you have.

I understand your objections to the broken promises, but I just regard this as part of the rub of the marketplace. Caveat emptor. You can't (and in my opinion shouldn't) expect government regulation right down to every detail. I stopped believing in lifetime warranties just a bit after the tooth fairy.

I object to the idea for some other reasons, however.

1) Why on earth would you expect or want a flashlight to last a lifetime? The armies of the world don't expect their guns to last that long, despite the fact that these are amongst the most evolved of artifacts.

2) A torch is so simple, a well-built light shouldn't need repair in normal circumstances. It probably shouldn't cost so much that you care about fixing it.

3) A suitably designed light can be repaired easily without resorting to specialist parts or attention.

4) It might be desirable to make a new light and throw away (recycle) the broken one. I mean, what do we want here, a planet full of immortal torches?

w

I know, I know. Some people have gold-plated bath taps. Saddam Hussein for example...
 
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Glen C

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Yaesumofo, a great post, well thought out with a true and accurate reflection of some lifetime warrantees
 

WildChild

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Anyway, if you can't repair it, there's always a market for selling broken parts! ;) Some people with skills will always be able to do something with them. It like the Wolf-Eyes Defender II I received yesterday (Thanks to Glen C). It's a two level light but it relies on the length of the 18650 battery to switch levels. If the battery is not long enough, no high level... On CR123A, there is no problem. Glen told me once that there is a 1 year warranty on this light. What I did is to add a solder blob on the tailcap rivet to add some length and compensate for cell variations, even if it may void this 1 year warranty... Quick and easy fix and I don't have to pay over 10$ to shipping back the light, making it repaired, and getting it back (over 1 month without the light). The light is also modular enough so parts can easily be replaced! Anyway, even if I paid 100$ for a light, if it last 3-4 years without breaking, and by this time I can get some sort of service either for free/cheap repair or for replacement parts (not overpriced), it's ok for me! The only think I hate is like printers, where replacement cartridge cost more than the new printer including cartridges and replacement parts cost more than the printer itself... This is a total waste of ressources and it makes too much pollution... A thing, well built, with a warranty of 1 year is better than something weakly built with a 5+ (including lifetime) warranty...
 
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raythompson

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This is not much different than some car dealers.

My son had lifetime tire replacement on his truck. The catch was that all maintenance had to be done at the dealer. Not a bad deal when you consider the tires are $250.00 each.

Well, about 10K miles before he needed new tires, the dealer was sold. The buildings, brand association, people, were all the same. Only the name changed and probably the owner.

Well, they no longer honored the warranty. It was considered with the other dealer. The dealership had offered the free tire option in a time frame that would ensure that no one could take up the offer. The dealer knew they were going to sell in the near future.

I had an extended warranty on my Astro van. The air conditioning switch went out after five years, well within the extended warranty. They could no longer get the switch. The dealers solution, go to a junk yard and find a switch. They can't get the switch, and will not get the switch.

Now I thought that all parts for a vehicle were to be available for 10 years after the model is produced. Not so apparently.

So it isn't just the flashlight industry. At least HDS and ARC are doing what they can to make things right. This is better than other industries.
 

Oddjob

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If lighting technology keeps changing as fast as it has been, I'd be happy to get a few years out of some lights. Realistically, in 5 years if my Novatac goes belly up and they are not around anymore, then I'll be thankful for the service I got from it and I'll buy whatever is new. I agree that I does suck but what can you do?:shrug:
 

aceo07

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I don't factor in life time when I buy a light. As someone else said, if it lasts over 2-3 years, then I'm a happy camper.

When I see the price, I don't think of extra service that I'll get down the line. I just wonder how long until I get the product and how long I have to return it if I don't like it. If I only see a waranty of 15-30 days, then I worry.

I've already modded my most expensive light, HDS EDC U60. I don't think it's covered anymore after that. It's been 2 years and it still looks strong. Though I know that the button will eventually go...
 

Derek Dean

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Hmmmm...... I think it mostly comes down to promises and expectations.

For instance, NovaTac warrants that it's products to be free from defects in material and workmanship for life.

Now, I don't take that to mean that the light will work forever. I understand that to mean that I should be able to expect repair or replacement for any problems that occur because of a flaw in a part or the way the light was assembled. Personally, I would take that to mean problems resulting from a fundamental design flaw too.

I like this type of warranty better than say a 1 year warranty, because it gives me specific legal rights as long as the company is in business.

Of course, I always take into account the relative stability and likely longevity of a company when considering purchasing their product, but that is only one of many considerations. It's all about the cost/benefit ratio, and for most of us, when we hit that magic number that says the cost is right for what benefit we expect to receive, then we buy.

In my 40 odd years of buying stuff, I've found that most major problems that are going to occur with a product because of faulty parts or workmanship, will generally happen within the first year or two, and that after that, you can feel pretty confident that the product will last for it's intended lifetime, which for most electronic components can be anywhere between 10-20 years (some times much longer, some times much less).

So, if my NovaTac 120P lasts for 10 years..... that's about $15 a year for a heck-of-a nice pocket light. If it lasts longer than that, well, then it's all a bonus to me. If it doesn't last that long.... well.... as has been pointed out.... I'll probably have a few other lights to fall back on by then anyway.

As for not being able to get a replacement reflector for the HDS... I am curious... was the original defective? I'm not trying to downplay the issue, just wondering if this isn't more like trying to find replacement parts for an old car, and that maybe we would be better off approaching it from that perspective.
 

GregWormald

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Here in Australia 'lifetime' warranties are illegal. The most that can be offered is 20 years.
With electronics, most problems happen soon, within the first month or so. Unfortunately mechanical stuff wears (out) and wear and tear is usually excluded anyway.
I'm happy with a year or two warranty--at least the company is confident of its quality and I also know they are not conning me by saying it will last forever.
Greg
 

Lightraven

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Don't forget reputable dealers. I took a malfunctioning C Crane Trek II lite back to REI years after I bought it. They had me fill out some paperwork and handed me thirty something dollars. Nice.
 
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lightemup

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Greg I don't know about the legalities, but i've got at least a few things with warranties longer than 20 years. My Surefires have a lifetime warranty, same with Maglite. I'm sure i've got a couple of other things too but can't think of them off the top of my head.
 
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