What companies really need to upgrade their lights?

OK, its been about a year now that Cree's have been out and basicly changed everything in the flashlight world. What companies really need to regear and create something new. Not just Cree lights, Streamlight for example has some cool new lights including the Sidewinder that are not cree. Pelican has those glow in the dark material lights. What companies do you like, but just really need to do something, anything to be interesting again?

My biggest nomination is Underwater Kenetics. Don't get me wrong, Im a fan. Their lightcannon hid dive light was my favorite light for a long time. But I see nothing new from them. Just the same old 4aa lights and c cell lights they have always had. I hope to see someting new from them soon. I will let you all nonimate some others. I like seeing all these new light companies emerge with great new products, but it would be nice if some old favorites could be cutting edge and exciting again.

In the end every flashlight company will have to upgrade and update if they plan on staying in business.
There are more flashlight brands and lights available than ever before.
If you want to stay in the business you have to keep up with the jonses.
No doubt about it.
We will likley see a thinning out and a corresponding slow rise in prices as the competition weeds lesser brands from the market place over the next 3-5 years.
Yaesumofo

woodrow said:

OK, its been about a year now that Cree's have been out and basicly changed everything in the flashlight world. What companies really need to regear and create something new. Not just Cree lights, Streamlight for example has some cool new lights including the Sidewinder that are not cree. Pelican has those glow in the dark material lights. What companies do you like, but just really need to do something, anything to be interesting again?

My biggest nomination is Underwater Kenetics. Don't get me wrong, Im a fan. Their lightcannon hid dive light was my favorite light for a long time. But I see nothing new from them. Just the same old 4aa lights and c cell lights they have always had. I hope to see someting new from them soon. I will let you all nonimate some others. I like seeing all these new light companies emerge with great new products, but it would be nice if some old favorites could be cutting edge and exciting again.

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What companies really need to upgrade their lights?

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SURVEY SAYS!



































Maglite!

Inova is the most obvious IMO.

In fact, I think they can really improve under the following (plausible) scenario: that the Rebel LED comes out in a K2 package!! (elektrolumens posted that he believes that this is indeed going to happen, which will make it much easier for flashlight creators to use the Rebel).

Since the Tx tactical line of Inovas already uses the K2, it should be easy to upgrade to a Rebel-based K2.

Personally I was disappointed they did not already upgrade to the CREE. But maybe they have a commercial relationship with CREE's competitor.

The other main improvement they need (again, IMO) is to add at least a second output level - so keep it simple, because of the mission of the Tx flashlight line, but have a low-output high-runtime option added. SF's can do it and they cover the tactical needs, why not Inova.

I saw the Inova Tx's (T1-T4's) in a Fry's store recently and had to stop myself from buying, no way I could have done that with a Rebel/K2 package.

Finally, on timing, I guess Inova's were updated sometime early in 2007, so assuming a similar schedule, they might be due for an update again in early 2008. If they give a few LOUD calls to the manufacturer of Rebel and ask them to produce the K2 package combo, I think they could manage the upgrade. They could ask them for early specs, as well, so they can design the emitters in parallel and save time.

The danger if they do not do that, is that they lose another full year! (can't really wait in this very competitive landscape, as yaesumofo explained, for TWO years while they hit the stores with a NEW yet still BACKWARD design!).

I say, except for the 7060, Pelican. Most of their lights are Luxeon, they should upgrade to SSC.

Not to sound like a downer, but I think the big picture needs to be realized. We are a small minority of flashlight adicts and to most a flashlight is just a flashlight. If the light turns on and illuminates objects most are happy. Inova and others will be fine as long as their products stay in stores like Target. Its those companies that focus their attention on CPFr's that need to stay on top of things. Maybe I'm wrong, but thats my opinion. I hear it from my wife all of the time "its just a flashlight". Therefore the type of led doesn't matter to most.

For a company that historically everyone out there (excluding CPF'ers) knows to be a top brand, I think Maglite needs to revamp its line of lights and make them more affordable to the average person. Up here in Canada I saw LED Minimags going for over $30.00 when they were first released. They didn't seem to sell very well. Our Walmarts and similar stores do not have a good selection of flashlights so if Maglite came out with a cool line of affordable LED lights (kind of like River Rock), then I think they would sell better.

Inova and Mag. Alot of the others have already started using Cree's etc. (SureFire, Fenix and some of the "other" cheap Chinese brands that you'll see on DX)

As mentioned i wouldn't expect Mag to do anything any time soon. Nor Inova. They are the "Consumer" brand. The user just wants the light to light up what ever's in front of them. They dont need it to throw a few hundred feet. SureFire and fenix on the other hand have people like us buying there products. We demand good LED's, Good manufacturing, Runtime and more.

OK, I hear everyone saying that Inova doesn't have to do much because they market to relatively un-sophisticated consumers.

But their Tx line is a tactical line, marketed to professionals. Are you all telling me that these professionals don't pay attention to new developments?

The price of the Tx's goes up above $100 (at least for the T4 rechargeable). That's near SF territory. Even at $50 or so for the non-rechargeables, it's hardly a Maglite!

Finally, many people (even average consumers) are shopping and comparing products on the internet. So they might notice something's amiss with a light that charges as much as competitors but gives 1/2 the light output and 1/2 the runtime (so it's effectively 4 times lower in quality dollar-for-dollar - and please note these numbers are suggestive only, not exact by any means).

And without a serious upgrade, the comparison will get even worse!

There are a lot of companies that have jumped over the fence, and there are a still a few sitting on the fence. I am not worried about the flashlight folks, but I am worried about the headlamp folks. When will PT and Petzl finally make some lights with the fancy emitters? I know there are some cheaper headlamps around with the Cree, but when it comes to headlamps I have my 2 favorites.

For the record, the Maglite LED is relatively new, we will have to wait another year (or two) for a Mag Cree/Seoul drop-in (which will be outdated when it comes out due to new technologies, which will also cause us to ***** all over again).

Arc AAA. Or at least supplement it with a Lux/Cree/Seoul alternative and change the regulation system as well. I realize many like the partial regulated system of the current AAA so it won't give up the ghost suddenly, leaving you stranded and I can see the point of that but it runs much dimmer on nimh's which has always bothered me.

geepondy said:

Arc AAA. Or at least supplement it with a Lux/Cree/Seoul alternative and change the regulation system as well. I realize many like the partial regulated system of the current AAA so it won't give up the ghost suddenly, leaving you stranded and I can see the point of that but it runs much dimmer on nimh's which has always bothered me.

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+1
The Arc AAA-P really needs an upgrade badly. Even if it is just a change to the Rebel RB100 and keeping the same semi-regulation. Can't call it a "premium" with a 5mm LED inside.
Since the thing would need to be upgraded, make the regulator better for current regulation so NiMH will be as bright as alkaline/lithium cells.

I've always liked Maglites. I think they were the first reliable flashlights that I found. I think Gene Malkoff has shown that it's "easy" (after all the works been done) to get incredible performance out of the current Maglite D cell design with a drop in module that could be easily mass produced and integrated into production models. I'm talking about Maglite production models sold with something similar to Malkoff's design inside. That would be one seriously kick *** blisterpak.

Maglite probably likes to keep the profits rolling in from their bulbs. I remember I bought quite a few bulb replacements before I upgraded to led flashlights.

id have too agree,,,mag,,

also inova
pelican
streamlight

these guys have too keep up,,

NA8 said:

I've always liked Maglites. I think they were the first reliable flashlights that I found. I think Gene Malkoff has shown that it's "easy" (after all the works been done) to get incredible performance out of the current Maglite D cell design with a drop in module that could be easily mass produced and integrated into production models. I'm talking about Maglite production models sold with something similar to Malkoff's design inside. That would be one seriously kick *** blisterpak.

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I aggree Maglites are outstanding. And I have the Patent Pending on the "something similar to Malkoff's design". I can only hope that the personal time and money (and lots and lots of it) will be worth it. The biggest hurdle has been getting the wife on board.

Gene

nmiller said:

Not to sound like a downer, but I think the big picture needs to be realized. We are a small minority of flashlight adicts and to most a flashlight is just a flashlight. If the light turns on and illuminates objects most are happy. Inova and others will be fine as long as their products stay in stores like Target. Its those companies that focus their attention on CPFr's that need to stay on top of things. Maybe I'm wrong, but thats my opinion. I hear it from my wife all of the time "its just a flashlight". Therefore the type of led doesn't matter to most.

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I can see your point when it comes to maglights and the cheap inova's target sells. But PT, SL, UK ect and the higher end Inova's have always gone after the "professional market" If they want to continue to compete, I believe changes indeed are neccacary.

example...I have posted this elsewhere on cpf...the gate is 85 yards.

2007 Inova T3


2007 Pelican 7060


Nether of these lights are sold at Target or Wal-mart ore are known about by that many average consumers. Both are marketed to professionals. Which would you buy? I have been a inova / uk fan for a long time. Neither company will see another cent from me until they raise the bar. I believe many professionals, not just cpf'ers wil choose to do the same thing.

Gene43 said:

I aggree Maglites are outstanding. And I have the Patent Pending on the "something similar to Malkoff's design". I can only hope that the personal time and money (and lots and lots of it) will be worth it. The biggest hurdle has been getting the wife on board.

Gene

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Hi Gene, I recall a fellow I knew who sold an amp design to McIntosh for a nice profit. I hope you're able to work a good deal with Maglite. It would be a match made in heaven.

Personally, I think MagLite are best staying as they are. The incandescent lights are inexpensive, and gorgeously modable.

SureFire seriously need to update their lights faster than they do. People say that they are too busy filling out military orders, but that is no excuse. I don't think Boeing would turn round to Virgin Atlantic and say "Sorry we cannot supply your new 777 airliners, we are too busy making air-to-air missiles for the navy".

If you consider your complaints about Fenix flashlights three months ago, look on the Fenix-Store.com website now. With the tactical clickies, textured reflectors and Rebel Luxeons, all of our requests have been answered. That is how fast market responses should be.