Copied Replies:
DUQ06-24-2007 12:48 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Nice simple design. Will it be sturdier than the DSD chargers?
Barbarin06-24-2007 02:18 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
In on another league
waTom06-24-2007 03:59 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Will you add spacers to charge R123As?
cy06-24-2007 05:46 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
despite claims of 800 & 1,000 mah ratings. so far best R123 tested in 625 mah range.
.5C to max 1C charge rates recommended by most cell mfg.
Javier, will this charger truly terminate at 4.2V? or will it continue to trickle charge, long as it's plugged in.
as you know greatest danger of using li-ion cells occurs during re-charging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
waTom;
Will you add spacers to charge R123As?
Barbarin06-24-2007 11:06 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Charging RCR123 is not recomended.
Charge will end at 4,17-4,19V. No trickle. We are spending a lot of money in this development, and we just wanted to be sure that it was going as good and safe as possible.
It is intended to be plugged always, or connected to vehicles.
Bogus106-24-2007 12:36 PM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
It might be nice if you could have a jack on it somewhere to plug in a C li-ion cradle.
rdh22606-24-2007 03:38 PM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
One question: will it require spacers to handle 50mm batteries (17500, 18500), or
have a spring-loaded/slider to accomodate different-length batteries?
First suggestion: a lo-/hi-V switch (select 4.10-4.12 vs 4.17/4.19) would be great.
Second suggestion: a lo-/hi-A switch to allow lower-capacity (14500 comes to mind,
not to mention everyone elses' favorite RCR123) batteries.
I realize
yuck-switches add hideous complexity/reliability issues to an otherwise-
foolproof blackbox product such as this, but the flexibility that accompanies it is highly
desired, and it would help distinguish this charger from the rest of the herd. And
reliable switches are made; I would gladly pay the extra $10 for them.
And, after all, it's not like I'm suggesting a LCD readout for state/V/A/etc.
-RDH
lukestephens77706-24-2007 09:39 PM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
I'd be sold in seconds if it could safely charge RCR123's, 14500's and accomodate 18650 cells! Plus as others said a jack to plug a cradle in for 'C' size lions. Pleeeaassee!! :twothumbs
lukestephens77706-24-2007 09:39 PM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Im sick of having mountains of different chargers.....
Barbarin06-25-2007 12:37 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Hello friends,
I appreciate your comments, and as a flashaholic I would like a charger like the one you propose but... It is not intended for experts or flashaholics, but for professionals or people who don't want or don't have enough time to read a dozen pages instructions manual.
It does not need spacers, as it has sliding contacts to charge xx500 or xx650 batteries.
Reliability is the goal of the design.
Regards,
Javier López
barkingmad06-25-2007 02:48 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Think the dual outputs (maybe 400ma and 800ma) would be a worthwhile addition and if the sliding contacts could allow it to take RCR123A's it would be great?
Barbarin06-25-2007 02:58 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
barkingmad (Post 2037465)
Think the dual outputs (maybe 400ma and 800ma) would be a worthwhile addition and if the sliding contacts could allow it to take RCR123A's it would be great?
But what happens if a user select 800 mA and puts RCR123?? This charger is intended as base-car charger for fire, rescue and police station. KISS design philosophy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
barkingmad06-25-2007 03:15 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Would it not be possible to determine the battery type electronically and auto-set the charging rate? Pretty sure an Ansmann charger I have works out the capacity of the battery (NiMH) electronically and sets the charging rate accordingly.
It sounds a good charger but the problem I see is that it also seems very similar to a WF-139 charger - the only real difference being a higher charging rate?
Hans06-25-2007 03:27 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
barkingmad (Post 2037475)
It sounds a good charger but the problem I see is that it also seems very similar to a WF-139 charger - the only real difference being a higher charging rate?
I've heard of a couple of cases where the WF-139 went well above 4.20V. Not really ideal, especially when the people using the charger aren't experts.
I think the idea with this charger is to keep things as simple as possible, while using good components to achieve maximum reliability. If this charger is really used mounted in cars, for instance, that's just about the most important thing.
Hans
Barbarin06-25-2007 03:28 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
repeated
Barbarin06-25-2007 03:30 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
barkingmad (Post 2037475)
Would it not be possible to determine the battery type electronically and auto-set the charging rate? Pretty sure an Ansmann charger I have works out the capacity of the battery (NiMH) electronically and sets the charging rate accordingly.
It sounds a good charger but the problem I see is that it also seems very similar to a WF-139 charger - the only real difference being a higher charging rate?
Yes, it would be possible, but would make things more complicated and expensive... and at the end Barbolight does not plan to manufacture RCR123 lights.
There are some differences with WF-139, such as certifications and charging circuit and of course the fact that it will end and 4-17-4,19 V. And yes, it is faster.
I do understand that this charger will not satisfy the average CPF'er, who has knowledge of batteries, types, risks... This charger will be plugged for years, and it is designed to charge batteries very often. Each one of its components is intended to last for years and thousands of cycles, with no care from end user.
Regards,
Javier
Szemhazai06-25-2007 03:43 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
It looks great, I'll be able to give my father 18650 Light and he can use it as normal AA NiMH – I'm definitely in for it
x2x3x206-25-2007 04:49 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Would it really be wise to set the charging rate to 800mA, which is kinda pushing 16340 cells? The 800mA will certainly speed up cahrging of 18650 cells!
I believe there are alot of people who are using 16340 cells now, especially since Fenix lights are starting to have circuits to accomodate Li-Ion use, while still maintaining full functionality like the P3D.
Would be a waste if such a well built charger to not support 16340, just my 2 cents...
barkingmad06-25-2007 04:59 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
x2x3x2 (Post 2037491)
Would it really be wise to set the charging rate to 800mA, which is kinda pushing 16340 cells? The 800mA will certainly speed up cahrging of 18650 cells!
I believe there are alot of people who are using 16340 cells now, especially since Fenix lights are starting to have circuits to accomodate Li-Ion use, while still maintaining full functionality like the P3D.
Would be a waste if such a well built charger to not support 16340, just my 2 cents...
Think that was kind-of my point - 800ma is probably too much for 16340 / RCR123A cells - I suggested a lower charging rate as well but they said the charger is not intended to charge those cells.
If it is only intended to charge 17/18500 and 17/18670 size cells - why not put the charging rate even higher than 800ma? Those cells are rated at around 1400-2400mah - so 1200ma would be about 50% faster?
bagman06-25-2007 05:06 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Subscribed to this one, will be very interested in the end result. With the 12v option I can carry one in my duty bag and recharge in the car if needed.
barkingmad06-25-2007 05:37 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bagman (Post 2037498)
Subscribed to this one, will be very interested in the end result. With the 12v option I can carry one in my duty bag and recharge in the car if needed.
AFAIK the WF-139 does 12v as well...
DM5106-25-2007 05:53 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
barkingmad (Post 2037504)
AFAIK the WF-139 does 12v as well...
Correct; however there have been concerns about the WF-139 charger not terminating at 4.2v, and it should not be used with unprotected cells.
Tessaiga06-25-2007 08:38 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Please... please have an adaptor to charge C Li-ion and I'll definitely be in for one!!!!
Please consider!!!!
blitzlicht6506-25-2007 08:57 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Hi Javier:wave:,
I have a question about the LEDs in the Barbolight U-15.
Which sort of LEDs are up-to-date in the new U-15-models?
(Your PM-Box is full:mecry: )
Greetings:wave:
coppertrail06-25-2007 09:14 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hans (Post 2037479)
I've heard of a couple of cases where the WF-139 went well above 4.20V. Not really ideal, especially when the people using the charger aren't experts.
I think the idea with this charger is to keep things as simple as possible, while using good components to achieve maximum reliability. If this charger is really used mounted in cars, for instance, that's just about the most important thing.
Hans
Agreed, my UltraFire 14500/10440 charger terminates at 4.3V! I have to babysit the cells with a DMM and pull them when they hit 4.1-4.2V. It would he a nice to have a chager for for 18650 cells that terminates between 4.1 and 4.2V.
Barbarin06-25-2007 09:16 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blitzlicht65 (Post 2037563)
Hi Javier:wave:,
I have a question about the LEDs in the Barbolight U-15.
Which sort of LEDs are up-to-date in the new U-15-models?
(Your PM-Box is full:mecry: )
Greetings:wave:
Edixeon KLC8 Level 2. (Cree EZ 1000 chip)
Barbarin06-25-2007 09:20 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tessaiga (Post 2037556)
Please... please have an adaptor to charge C Li-ion and I'll definitely be in for one!!!!
Please consider!!!!
That would not be a problem for a CPF'er with pliers, wire and some skills.
JanCPF06-25-2007 09:29 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Completely off topic, but Javier, It would be really great if you would offer some of your new Barbolight models (like T-04 and B-04) to us CPF'ers. And also you talked earlier about and Edixion upgrade program for the Lux based U-15.
BTW: I've already talked 4 of my dive buddys from our club into buying a U-15, which makes us 5 in all.
My only problem is that the other four have the brighter Edixion models :green:
Jan :wave:
Barbarin06-25-2007 09:35 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JanCPF (Post 2037582)
Completely off topic, but Javier, It would be really great if you would offer some of your new Barbolight models (like T-04 and B-04) to us CPF'ers. And also you talked earlier about and Edixion upgrade program for the Lux based U-15.
BTW: I've already talked 4 of my dive buddys from our club into buying a U-15, which makes us 5 in all. My only problem is that the other four have the brighter Edixion models :green:
Jan :wave:
Off topic, yes... but please send us your light and it will be upgraded!
rdh22606-25-2007 09:42 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbarin (Post 2037441)
Hello friends,
I appreciate your comments, and as a flashaholic I would like a charger like the one you propose but... It is not intended for experts or flashaholics, but for professionals or people who don't want or don't have enough time to read a dozen pages instructions manual.
Believe me, everytime I fire up my Triton, I
fully appreciate that sentiment!
Quote:
It does not need spacers, as it has sliding contacts to charge xx500 or xx650 batteries.
Yay! I'm in for a couple!
Quote:
Reliability is the goal of the design.
(and)
But what happens if a user select 800 mA and puts RCR123?? This charger is intended as base-car charger for fire, rescue and police station. KISS design philosophy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle
Personally, I'm not big on the 16340/RCR123 batteries, but...
One KISS solution is actually very simple and fully in keeping with the foolproof
design goal (police/fire/medical/emergency/high-stress): have different slots/cutouts
for the 16340 cells. The 17500/17670/18500/18650 cells go in the long way, and the
16340 go in 90 degrees crossways. Separate contacts, separate insertion, you can NOT
physically insert cells in the wrong (dangerous) way. Foolproof.
Well, ok, not proof against a dedicated fool with a hammer and a roll of dimes intent on
killing himself...
On a slightly different vein, if this charger is intended to be installed (screwed down; semi-
permanent "installation"), then could you please include screw terminals on the back side
for DC (12/24V) connection? About the only thing I hate more than the plethora of wierd
little 12V adapter charging cords is those loose little spacer blocks...
Finally, what about indicators? It looks like you have a LED for each channel (battery), yes?
I hope it's not one of those bi-color (RED/GREEN) setups, hardly foolproof -- a significant
percentage of the population is variously colorblind!.
It would be nice if the state-of-charge was "immediately descernible". For example, flash
the LED(s) on (1Hz 10% duty cycle: on 100ms off 900ms) to indicate "low" charge, blink
LED (1Hz 50% duty cycle) for bulk of the charge (say, battery is "half" charged, for some
vague notion of "half"), flash the LEDs off (1Hz 90% duty cycle: on 900ms off 100ms)
when battery is 90% charged, then steady on when charge cycle is complete. This allows a
fast determination of battery suitability for immediate return to service (for those stressful
situations where you need reasonably-fresh batteries RIGHT NOW).
While one could argue it is a gimmick (well, it is), it's a trivial to implement and near-
foolproof one with positive value-add.
Out of curiousity, do you have a targetted price-point?
Looking forward to your new chargers!
-RDH
barkingmad06-25-2007 01:46 PM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DM51 (Post 2037508)
Correct; however there have been concerns about the WF-139 charger not terminating at 4.2v, and it should not be used with unprotected cells.
Is this
actually true 'now' (or ever?) - I have two WF-139's and never noticed a problem - actually one is charging 2 x 18670's (protected) now so will measure the voltage with my DMM when they are charged.
But would add I have charged both protected and unprotected cells without problem and never noticed the voltage over about 4.16-4.19v.
barkingmad06-25-2007 01:54 PM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
coppertrail (Post 2037574)
Agreed, my UltraFire 14500/10440 charger terminates at 4.3V! I have to babysit the cells with a DMM and pull them when they hit 4.1-4.2V. It would he a nice to have a chager for for 18650 cells that terminates between 4.1 and 4.2V.
Think you mean the WF-138 (for 14500/10440's) - again I have two of these and had no problems - two 10440's straight off the charger - one is 4.14v - the other is 4.15v?
jch7906-25-2007 03:10 PM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Javier,
Where are these manufactured?
john
barkingmad06-25-2007 03:18 PM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
barkingmad (Post 2037652)
Is this actually true 'now' (or ever?) - I have two WF-139's and never noticed a problem - actually one is charging 2 x 18670's (protected) now so will measure the voltage with my DMM when they are charged.
But would add I have charged both protected and unprotected cells without problem and never noticed the voltage over about 4.16-4.19v.
Ok - charged 2 protected 18670 cells and 1 unprotected 18670 cell - all came off the charger at 4.18-4.20v (tested with 2 different DMM's).
Tronic06-26-2007 12:31 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Nice charger!
I wish the notch to take out the battery would be on the top of the battery. (Who the battery sign is.)
This would make it much easier to take out the battery. (One more thing that I don't like on my WF-139)
barkingmad,
The problem is that the WF-139 don't stop charging if the LED goes green!
At the time the LED goes green I have similar values. But If I leave the cells in the charger a few hours, the voltage rise up to 4.35V on mine!
barkingmad06-26-2007 01:40 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tronic (Post 2037839)
Nice charger!
I wish the notch to take out the battery would be on the top of the battery. (Who the battery sign is.)
This would make it much easier to take out the battery. (One more thing that I don't like on my WF-139)
barkingmad,
The problem is that the WF-139 don't stop charging if the LED goes green!
At the time the LED goes green I have similar values. But If I leave the cells in the charger a few hours, the voltage rise up to 4.35V on mine!
I have left them in for a while - certainly probably about an hour - will test later. How old is your WF-139 - just wonder if perhaps it 'was' a problem but not now (mine is about 6 months old)?
Tronic06-26-2007 02:37 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
barkingmad (Post 2037849)
I have left them in for a while - certainly probably about an hour - will test later. How old is your WF-139 - just wonder if perhaps it 'was' a problem but not now (mine is about 6 months old)?
Mine is also about 6 months old. I have purchased mine on 12-15-2006
It seems that there is a big difference between each charger.
JanCPF06-26-2007 05:23 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
barkingmad (Post 2037676)
Ok - charged 2 protected 18670 cells and 1 unprotected 18670 cell - all came off the charger at 4.18-4.20v (tested with 2 different DMM's).
Yes, this is very true. Of course you wont notice it if you try it with protected cells because the built in circuit just cuts off. But you should be able to see an increase in voltage from the moment the leds turn green. The increase is very slow, so you need to have them in for several hours. Given enough time though, it will overcharge unprotected cells. My theory why this happens is that the charger 'pings' the cell with a small test current to test the charge level of the cell. But the problem is that Li-ions self discharge is virtualy non existant, and therefor they receive a small charge with each 'ping'.
As this talk about the WF-139 has *nothing* to do with the new Barbolight charger it should probably be moved to another thread
Jan
cy06-26-2007 10:38 AM
Re: New Li-ION charger from Barbolight.
that's basically true... but talk about other chargers that don't truly terminate, speaks volumes about the quality of what Barbolight is trying to do.
again... greatest danger of using li-ion cells, occurs during re-charging.
so creating your own charger to control safety factor is a wise move.
so far Pila chargers are the only compact charger that truly terminates, that I'm aware of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JanCPF;
Yes, this is very true. Of course you wont notice it if you try it with protected cells because the built in circuit just cuts off. But you should be able to see an increase in voltage from the moment the leds turn green. The increase is very slow, so you need to have them in for several hours. Given enough time though, it will overcharge unprotected cells. My theory why this happens is that the charger 'pings' the cell with a small test current to test the charge level of the cell. But the problem is that Li-ions self discharge is virtualy non existant, and therefor they receive a small charge with each 'ping'.
As this talk about the WF-139 has *nothing* to do with the new Barbolight charger it should probably be moved to another thread
Jan