About Surefire...

I'm Not trying to start a flame war. Please don't turn this thread into that.

That said, I'm wondering what makes surefire worth its price tag. Is the build quality that much nicer? Is it because it's a USA light?

I've never owned a Surefire before, and frankly, I dont think I can afford it. But should I save for one to try out?

Your opinion is appreciated, but please, be nice.

Surefire simply makes great flashlights. The build quality is great, they are very reliable (although there have been some issues with the Z57 tailcaps) and of course, the incredible warranty.

I love my Surefires!

But I think they could drop prices a bit. Especially now that more and more manufacturers are starting to produce lights that give you 120% performance and 80% of the build quality Surefire gives you but at 50-75% of the price.

If you feel your Fenix's aren't built tough enough for your needs and want something with heavier duty construction, than Surefire would be a good choice.

I'm sure that you are aware of the drastically varying opinions about Surefire lights.

There are those that feel that Surefires are over-priced and not worth the price of admission! I respect that opinion and it's not my mission in life to try to change it.

Then there are those of us that think Surefire's are worth every dime that they cost! Others won't change my feelings on the subject! So the debate rages on...

I won't address the subject of what makes them worth their cost. I am sure that you have read many thoughts about this both pro and con!

You might try one of the new Surefire Cree lights and see what all the fuss is about. If you don't like it you could easily sell it here on the forum!

zigziggityzoo said:

I'm wondering what makes surefire worth its price tag. Is the build quality that much nicer? Is it because it's a USA light?

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Well, relatively speaking, Surefires are MUCH cheaper priced than Fenix lights relative to the average wage of America compared to China, respectively. The salary of average Americans is about 40 times more than China, but a Surefire is only about 2-3 times more expensive than Fenix's. So Surefires are cheaper, relatively speaking.

Put it this way - my 1st uncle in China has less chance of affording a Fenix light than my 2nd uncle in America has at purchasing a Surefire. So....... they answer to your question is YES! A Surefire is actually less expensive than a Fenix. And when you factor in the lifetime warranty it's almost unbeatable.

I bought my first Surefire (a G2) a few years ago. I couldn't justify spending more than $35 on "just a flashlight." Like others have posted, it's the hook Surefire uses to get you started.

:devil:

Then I bought an E1L last year. The idea of a single-cell high-powered LED seemed pretty neat. And there was that great Surefire build quality again.

It's nice to spend your hard-earned money on something you know will last. Especially when the company is in the U.S.A., actually has customer service, and a lifetime warranty to boot.

My collection is pretty small compared to many on here, but I know there will be room for another Surefire in the near future (L1).

I own quite several lights from both makers and each of them offers features the other one lacks.

short:
SF leds: no good multilevels, not bright, old incan shape
fenix: no full 1 A power, no LOW mode, slippery
both: no 18650 option

PERFECT LIGHT:
* shaped like a Fenix (= no bigger head)
* running on one 18650
* giving full 1 A to led
* featuring a LOW LEVEL (and one medium at least also)
* knurling like Surefire
* machining quality and feel like Surefire

Fenix probably doesn't do 1A because their bodies don't have enough material to absorb the heat. Maybe they will come out with a slightly beefier model, with some moe knurling, and send 1A or more to the emitter. They could make a tactical Fenix.

hmm times i think that my surefire is a 'branded' good, which i rarely owned.

nevertheless, it has at least some sort of resell value compare to some, of course, case on case basis ...

lastly, a surefire light is one of the few, one would carry, if forseen any troubles ahead or to war .... at those situation you wouldnt wan to carry a light that might fail when its needed.

You might as well get the fire hose out and the line charged....eventually this thread will get interesting.....

I think the answer depends upon what your expectations, needs, and desires are. SureFire makes fine lights. To me some of them are well worth the investment for all of the reasons that you and others have mentioned. To me, the U2 is ummatched not because of its output, but because of an interface that is perfect for my needs. For others, SureFires will always be overpriced hype. It is all a matter of personal choice and it is very subjective.

I think that because of the price it is possible to set your expectations too high, especially given the number of lower priced lights that offer great output and reasonable build quality for the money. It simply becomes easy to be disappointed, just as you might be if you purchased a $50,000 big name brand luxury car and then drove a friend's luxury Hyundai and found that you liked the Hyundai better (I'm in the business- trust me, it does happen!).

If you chose to try a SureFire, research the models well to determine which one would best suit your needs and expectations and give one a try. I don't think you'll be disppointed.

xiaowenzu said:

YES! A Surefire is actually less expensive than a Fenix. And when you factor in the lifetime warranty it's almost unbeatable.

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Problem is a $50 Fenix is still $50USD for someone in China, that would buy one here, and a $200 Surefire is still $200USD for someone in China.

Going by what you are saying, if a Fenix was made in the USA, it would cost far more than a Surefire, so would that make it better than a Surefie?

I'm not sure if reading the same old "Surefire worth the coin?" thread is worth my time. . .

If it's worth it to you, it's worth it.

Or, with more explaination: if you want a solid, well engineered light that will last you years, it's worth it. If you regard a light as a tool, then this is about as good as it gets. But if you want lots and lots of lights, because you have to have this week's latest thing, then don't bother - you won't get the use out of it to justify the expense.

I own several Surefires, and here's my take. As far as lumens per dollar, they certainly aren't the cheapest. However, they are the best of the mainstream manufacturers (or at least very close) in terms of quality, fit and finish, warranty, etc.

There are some other makers out there like Fenix that make very good lights for less money. However, when I looked at my options, it was only $50-$75 more to get what I really wanted. There are not very many things in life where spending "tens of dollars" more will get me the very best (in my opinion anyway). I suppose if I were buying 1 light per month it would matter, but I choose to own fewer lights and get the ones I really want.

It comes down to what we all define as quality. For some it's the latest $30 DealExtreme light. For others it's a titanium McGizmo light for $450+. Neither person is wrong. What I would do is make a list of qualities you want, and then rate them in importance. If price is #1 or 2, Surefire won't be your brand. If "Built in the USA", "High finish quality", "Good Warranty", etc are at the top, then I think you will find that Surefires are indeed quality lights.

The bottom line is SureFire uses custom components in all of their flashlights. Many of the components are designed and patented by Surefire.
Fenix uses Off the shelf components exclusively. They design shells to fit around components which are available in bulk quantities.
These are not patented parts and are not exclusive to Fenix.
If you have enough cash you could do the exact same thing.
Fenix's focus is on building flashlights with a great variety.
many of the lights we see today will not be available from fenix in a year or so. That is the nature of OTSC manufacturing. Since the companies who supply the components stop production of items very quickly in favor of what ever they make next.
Fenix doesn't spend money on R and D they leave that to the companies who manufacture the components.

This is a very similar marketing model to that used in the bicycling industry. In that industry companies buy components sets and install them into frames of their own design.
Fenix is doing just that with flashlights.
Yaesumofo

except for machining (which maybe is important for us, but for noone else),
the real difference WAS, that, in incan times, SF simply had the best reflectors and the best bulbs.

Now, with the led, this has changed (thank god) and now good lights can be made cheaper.

Imho SF has lost a big stake of its role as leader in the business - their led lights are in no way in a league with the way better priced good quality lights around now.

xiaowenzu said:

Well, relatively speaking, Surefires are MUCH cheaper priced than Fenix lights relative to the average wage of America compared to China, respectively. The salary of average Americans is about 40 times more than China, but a Surefire is only about 2-3 times more expensive than Fenix's. So Surefires are cheaper, relatively speaking.

Put it this way - my 1st uncle in China has less chance of affording a Fenix light than my 2nd uncle in America has at purchasing a Surefire. So....... they answer to your question is YES! A Surefire is actually less expensive than a Fenix. And when you factor in the lifetime warranty it's almost unbeatable.

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xiaowenzu,

You are joking, right?

Mike

Well, Surefire lights = Excellent Build-quality & rugged reliability. (Except for the U2 model, and the occasional hiccups with their tailcap switches). But it's the type of light that you can rely on to work when absolutely needed. If part of your profession means you might be staking your life on your light, Surefire is the safe bet.

One light in particular, the L4; there's literally nothing else like it from any other company. Small, and literally puts out a wall of light. It's the light I EDC most of the time. Worth every penny.

It seems to me that when the question of cost and affordability becomes a factor in any purchase there are two things that can help:

1) Going to a retailer and seeing & handling the product for yourself.

2) Meeting/Visiting an owner (or owners) of the product to see what the product is like in use.

With some products it is all in the detail, not just the product but also the company. Examples of this are 'organic' foods, and Fair Trade foods where the products are more than simply products with higher price tags.

Al

This topic has come up many times. Try searching for "sf" or "surefire" combined with "overpriced," "worth," "coin," etc., and you'll find lots of opinions on the matter.

I couldn't agree more.
I have never seen a fenix on a store shelf though. That is a bit of a problem. I do know there is a shop in houston...Bit of a long way to travel to see a couple of flashlights.
I also have never seen a Police officer staking his life on a fenix either.
There are lots of opinions out here though It is a good place to start.

I still find it difficult to compare a $150.00 flashlight to one costing $45.
Don't get me wrong. Fenix lights have improved and are in a class of their own when it comes to changing with what the Component market feeds them. They are very good at that. This keeps prices down. That seems to be the most important factor when buying them.
Yaesumofo

Size15's said:

It seems to me that when the question of cost and affordability becomes a factor in any purchase there are two things that can help:

1) Going to a retailer and seeing & handling the product for yourself.

2) Meeting/Visiting an owner (or owners) of the product to see what the product is like in use.

With some products it is all in the detail, not just the product but also the company. Examples of this are 'organic' foods, and Fair Trade foods where the products are more than simply products with higher price tags.

Al

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