How do you justify $150 for CR2 Ion?

etc

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Looking at Fenix-store dot com..

OK, it's just a light that takes a single CR2. Big deal?? $40 might be too much, but $150 is just downright lunacy. What's it made of, platinium?
 

Derek Dean

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Patriot

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Funny you started this thread because I was just trying to figure this out yesterday. Yes I completely agree that this light is really priced right out of it's element even for most CPFers. I've always wanted one but there is no way that I can justify it for the money. It's waterproof, has very nice machining yes, but $150 for a standard, change the color and it's $175, combine that with an XR-E and it's $245, unless it's a Q5 then it's $265...incase this arrangement in Ti and it's $525 and only 100 lumens out of a Q5...yikes! I much rather have a Ti-PD! I really don't get it. I'd much rather have an Orb Ns with XRE for half the price as an CR2 Ion. I'd purchase the very pricey Draco in Ti before I spend that kind of money on a CR2 light. I love tiny high performance pocket lights and it is the last one on my list....purely because of it's stratospheric price and undersized reflector in relation to its outside diameter.
 
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TrevorNasko

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Atlanta, GA>> The Flashlight that was broken shall
I've thought those sized lights looked really cool for years but it was more the battery rather than the price that stopped me first. CR2 is a crazy size battery and afaik not avail in rechargable. It always seemed to me to be a much more expencive to run format. Oh yeah and 150 is a bit too rich for my blood.

Still this is cpf and i've seen far less sell for far more...
 

carrot

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At $150, the CR2 Ion is one of the least expensive custom lights around. The design is modeled after Larry's famous pocket rockets, the LL-CR2 and LL-CR123, giving us ordinary folk a little (very little!) taste of what it is like to be bestowed such an incredible gift.

It is a two-stage light with a beautiful floody beam and a magnificent UI (twist to turn on, twist further for more light), and a perfect keychain or neck light. It's among one of the first lights to ever use a Cree XLamp LED (XR-E's are XLamps!). If you like floody lights, the CR2 Ion is definitely worth a look.

KingGlamis said:
50 lumens? It's worth about $10 if you ask me.
KingGlamis, in one line you have completely thrown away any respect I might have had for you. It is impossible to ascertain a light's value without handling it, using it, or even knowing anything about it! To make such an assumption shows a general lack of understanding of the flashlight world.
 

carrot

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You can get CR2-sized Li-ions. And, I would not put an XR-E in my CR2 Ion even if you paid me to do it. Flashlights are really not just about specs and numbers.
 

Derek Dean

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I think what's being misunderstood here is just how difficult it is to make a flashlight this small, while still retaining the elegance, versatility, and beautiful beam that seem to characterize this light.

Anyway, everybody places value on different things. I know that since I've been here, this has been one of those lights that I've wanted to own. I've occasionally seen a few very nice examples come up on B/S/T, but have always been a day late and a dollar short, ha.
 

KingGlamis

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KingGlamis, in one line you have completely thrown away any respect I might have had for you. It is impossible to ascertain a light's value without handling it, using it, or even knowing anything about it! To make such an assumption shows a general lack of understanding of the flashlight world.

Well first off, that was a joke, sorry you didn't get it. But in all seriousness, all I care about is light output and that a light will last for a decent amount of years. $150 is rediculous for such a light. I understand the flashlight world very well... just like anything else, the popular lights cost more money for no other reason than they are popular.

So what makes this light so special? That it is small? To me that is a bad thing. I hate small lights. Everyone is different, as I know I am, because I just don't see the attraction to super small lights. My pockets are big enough to handle a "normal" sized EDC, and so are yours, so why is there a need for a super small light at a super high price?

For $150 I could have several EDC-sized lights that are brighter than this one.
 

frank777

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I bought one of these, and it was defective! It would sometimes skip the low setting completely and go straight to the high setting, or it would flicker. I thought paying $165 for a flashlight would mean outstanding quality. Apparently, not so. I sent it back.
 

carrot

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I'm sorry you are unable to express a joke in a way that others will get it. In that case, perhaps I too was joking and poorly expressed it as such. The use of smilies is crucial to communcation on an online forum where it is impossible to detect one's tone through the text.

I think I already explained what makes the light worth it to me. If it is not worth it to you, that is your (lack of) concern, not mine.

The quality of this light is impeccable. It is very finely finished and has a very lovely floody beam with a minimal hotspot. It's fantastic for reading or just walking around. It slips unnoticed on a keychain or on a neck lanyard. I do carry a normal EDC, and the CR2 Ion finely complements it. The threads are incredibly smooth and very precisely machined. As I stated before, it is also amongst the least expensive custom lights on the market and is a pretty good value at that.

I believe you are mistaken in assessing that the most popular lights cost more money than others.

Hypothetically let us consider that there are three main markets, oversimplifying the ecosystem of CPF. I won't bother with fancy naming schemes, so let's call them the low-end, the high-end, and the medium-end.

I believe that the Fenix lights seem to have the greatest market penetration amongst active CPFers and they are not expensive nor cheap. They are positioned quite happily in the middle of the road in terms of cost and are doing very well there. Let us say that Fenix represents the middle-of the road CPFer, who is looking for something somewhat better and theoretically more reliable than the low-priced stuff, but is not ready or unwilling to shell out over $100 for a light. Such a CPFer may be fairly reasonable by "normal people" standards and sees value in a light but no sense in purchasing something "outlandishly" expensive. This may also include CPFers who peruse DX first for their lights and are looking to see what all the hype is about.

There are premium lights from other manufacturers and makers. Those cost more. They have a loyal fanbase because those who purchase them feel that the increase in quality, the higher attention to detail, and the names standing behind the lights are all worth the extra cash. They don't mind that they get less value in return for their money, because they feel they are getting something they believe to be worth the price premium. Many people who of said group tend to have fewer lights but value each more.

Then there are cheaper lights. Those who buy these tend to be looking for output first and foremost. They are often looked down upon by the purchasers of more premium lights, in the medium and high end markets. But CPFers who stick to the low end market tend to be happy with what they've got and maybe even dabble in modding, which is a lot easier to stomach on a light that cost $5 instead of $50 or $500. Those who fall into the category of value-priced lights, or perhaps the less PC term, "low end," eventually tend to amass quite a collection of these inexpensive lights, and may be more interested in quantity over what they suspect to be marginally higher quality (and they are right to some extent).

But this is oversimplifying things. There are many CPFers who span the whole range of the price spectrum, with some cheaper lights and some pricey ones.

Where I am going is, the CR2 Ion falls into the category of the premium lights, as it is a flashlight that cannot fully justify its value through more easily measured things like output, but is an interesting point of entry for someone looking for their first custom light, as it is relatively inexpensive in its class and is similar in appearance to the LL-CR2, a legendary custom flashlight whom only a lucky few are 'caretakers' of, to borrow greenLED's expression. Those who prefer lights where value is measured solely in terms of output need not apply.
 
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Bullzeyebill

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God, I hate threads like this that start out so negative. Disrespectful too. Everyone has their tastes. I too like bright, powerful, and big in my lights. I have plenty of these lights, but the light I use at night when I am walking around in the house is my CR2, on low, and I always carry it as a back up light.

There are many custom lights out there that cost a lot more and I have a few, not many, and I prefer my Surefire lights modded with Cree's and Seoul's for work lights, but those are not cheap lights either.

I am a little upset with the attitude os posters recently. I don't where they come from or why they are on CPF. Seems like CPF was a more civilized place prior to 2006. Just me I guess. I probably should save this line of thinking for the CAFE.

Bill
 

rizky_p

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Come one this is where Flashaholic meets, someone will buy 10000 dollar light just dont ask why.
 

paulr

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But in all seriousness, all I care about is light output and that a light will last for a decent amount of years. $150 is rediculous for such a light. For $150 I could have several EDC-sized lights that are brighter than this one.
If all you're after is lumens, then the Ion is not cost effective. It translates into other areas as well.

Audio: "All I care about is decibels, why should I buy this ultra-low-distortion audiophile gear"? You're right, get a squawky sound reinforcement system like they use in a stadium instead, it will play real loud for a lot less.

Cars: "All I care about is 0-60 speed, why should I buy this Rolls Royce?" You're right, get some clapped out 1960's muscle car from Fleabay, it will go real fast for a lot less.

Wine: "All I care about is alcohol content, why should I buy this Dom Perignon?" You're right, get Pistachio Ripple or Night Train, it will get you good and drunk for a lot less.

Art: "All I care about is seeing nekkid chicks, why should I buy this original Imogen Cunningham print?" You're right, scrounge some back issues of Playboy from dad's basement for free and look at the centerfolds.

You see where it leads. Various issues come up in the design and use of flashlights and not all of them have to do with lumens. Flashaholism is about following these questions wherever they lead. It's a quest for perfection and expression, not just about maximizing one number.

And if you think flashlights like the Ion cost too much, hang out on a wristwatch forum sometime. New production techniques have got some of the Omega coaxial models down to a very affordable $2500 or so (a decade ago you would have had to buy a custom George Daniels watch for $100K or so to get that kind of movement) so everyone can afford them now. And there are even some recent Chinese-made tourbillons in the under $10K range. That's the wristwatch equivalent of a Fenix since the Swiss ones couldn't be made for less than maybe $50K. These developments bring the accuracy of mechanical watches almost to the level of a $10 Casio digital. To the people who buy those things, it's worth it to foster the continuing development of mechanical watch technology just to see how far it can go.

As Enzo Ferrari used to say, what can be conceived, can be created.
 
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Oddjob

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Carrot and paulr have made some excellent points IMO. The bottom line for me around here is "to each his own". We are all individuals and we all get something different out of this hobby.
It is difficult at times to express ourselves because the written word is poorly suited to expressioin especially since we rely so heavily on things like tone of voice and facial cues. I think we just need to respect eachother and express our opinions in non judgemental ways.
 

Thujone

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For me it is a $150 tool that resides in my camera bag full of many other expensive tools. I have been very happy with this light it has a wonderful flood pattern and is an all around amazing tool. You may not understand it, but I doubt you would kick it out of bed so to speak....
 

aceo07

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I love the design, but I wish it came with the latest led as a standard. It doesn't need to be the brightest, but longer runtime would be a good tradeoff.
 

MarNav1

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I like my Aluminum/Bronze Ion just fine, had a Maroon one too but had to sell it. I like the CR2 format, always have but they are more expensive than 123 format. They retain most of their value too. Hopefully I can get a newer emitter someday.
 
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