Novatac bashing...

gadgetnerd · Sep 4, 2007

Part of the enjoyment of getting a new torch is jumping on CPF and reading about how much pleasure it gives other users. I was thrilled to receive my Novatac 120P a few days ago, but upon logging in to CPF to share the love I notice that there's been a bit of Novatac bashing on CPF lately. I know CPF users are enthusiasts with an eye for detail and pretty high expectations, but to be honest I'm quite mystified as to the level of Novatac dissatisfaction - lot of it from people who quite obviously don't own one or simply hate Novatac because Henry left.

Personally I think Novatac have done a great job to bring an extremely high performance semicustom light out at a pretty good price point. Yes they have some QC issues, just as HDS did. Maybe Novatac's higher volume of production exacerbates this? However they (and their dealers) also have incredible responsive customer service which largely offsets the QC issues.

I've owned lots of torches and none of them did I consider perfect in every way. This includes both the HDS and Novatac. Here's how mine compare:

Torch: HDS B42 | Novatac 120P
Price: $90 (special) U60 was >$250 retail | $150
Finish: Some defects in anodising | Perfect finish and colour matching
Threads: Smooth | Smooth
O rings: Thin, easily damaged | Thicker and more robust
Reflector: Some dust and smudges | Some dust
LED: Perfectly centered, some smudging| Off centre (easy fix), some smudging (lube?)
Lens: AR UCL no dust | AR Polycarbonate no dust
Bezel: Flush | Protruding, scalloped
Beam: Perfect | Perfect
Tint: Slightly yellow | Perfect white
Runtime (max): 35 min on RCR123 | 40 min on RCR123
UI: Easy to use, 250 clicks to program! | Easily used and programmed
Flickering: 1-2 sec when changing modes | 1-2 sec when changing modes
Noise: Whines audibly on primary | Silent in all modes
Clip: Crap | Crap, but no holes in light if not used
Packaging: Ziploc bag | Nice foam box

Now I know I'm not comparing apples to apples (more like oranges to mandarins) here as the Novatac is not simply a rebadged HDS. All in all though I think I've bought a winner with the 120P. If I had to get rid of all torches bar one, this is the one I'd keep. I'd be interested to know how your HDS and Novatac lights compare.

JohnJ80 · Sep 4, 2007

I just wish that Novatac had placed the clip facing the other way so I could clip it on the bill of a hat for quick and dirty hands free light. It goes the opposite way from my U80 from HDS.

J

RickyT · Sep 4, 2007

Some have had legitimate issues. While customer service is great, it should not be a replacement for good QC. I do like mine though and don't have the issues others have.

Just for accuracy, the u60 closeout was $125 and the u60gt was $135.

SunnyQueensland · Sep 4, 2007

Good point Gadgetnerd- And howdy to a local.

:shrug: I have no idea why there is such a negative view in regards to the Novatac. (we can all still buy Henrys product when its released you know?) I too think the clip is useless, but it still won't stop me from picking it up first before all the other flashlights I own.

It did get a bit overwhelming leading up to the release of the Novatac re all the negative comments. :sigh: A bit disappointing really.

Credit where credit is due though and I think Novatac has done a great job before and after the sale - keep it up guys! :twothumbs

gadgetnerd · Sep 4, 2007

RickyT said:
Just for accuracy, the u60 closeout was $125 and the u60gt was $135.

I stand corrected

They were significantly more prior to the closeout..

Dizos · Sep 4, 2007

I haven't noticed much bashing. Negative comments have mostly been first hand user reports of problems. I agree it is unpleasant to hear something negative about a product which you already purchased, but for others who are contemplating the purchase it is helpful to hear from individual user experiences. I preordered the Novatac and watched with trepidation as some negative feedback arrived. I felt very happy with the light after it arrived despite some fit/finish issues. Then I discovered that mine had the low level light pulsing problem, discussed on this forum (which I'm sure Novatac will ultimately resolve) but I found it impacted the utility of the light for my purposes. My light ended up completely dying, so I returned it for a refund. I'm out $30 shipping since I am not in the US. I wish I had waited until the product bugs were ironed out before purchasing.

gadgetnerd · Sep 4, 2007

Sunny Qld and Dizos: Good to see 3 Queenslanders on the same thread

I've been burned before and will no doubt be burned again by my impatience and inability to wait for rev2 of a torch to iron out bugs. Novatac took so long to get their product out the door that I just couldn't resist!

jcompton · Sep 4, 2007

Dizos said:
I haven't noticed much bashing. Negative comments have mostly been first hand user reports of problems. I agree it is unpleasant to hear something negative about a product which you already purchased, but for others who are contemplating the purchase it is helpful to hear from individual user experiences. I preordered the Novatac and watched with trepidation as some negative feedback arrived. I felt very happy with the light after it arrived despite some fit/finish issues. Then I discovered that mine had the low level light pulsing problem, discussed on this forum (which I'm sure Novatac will ultimately resolve) but I found it impacted the utility of the light for my purposes. My light ended up completely dying, so I returned it for a refund. I'm out $30 shipping since I am not in the US. I wish I had waited until the product bugs were ironed out before purchasing.

It figures that once I finally place my order for a 120P I come across a post like this...:mecry:

yaesumofo · Sep 5, 2007

I have several HDS's.
I bought 'em when they were high and when they were on close out. When I bought a HDS EDC42XR for $90.00 I thought it was the greatest bargain around.
That said the HDS lights are not perfect. IMHO the most obvious issue is the UI. On the ultimate unit I have The UI drives me crazy.

I also own a NovaTac edc 120P.
I paid $150 for it and in comparson to the hds light INHO it is a much better value.
Mine worhs perfectly. The couple of times it has acted strangly I replaced the battery and reset the light and it operated perfectly afterwards.
The novatac ROCKS.
Yaesumofo

jcompton said:
It figures that once I finally place my order for a 120P I come across a post like this...:mecry:

ViReN · Sep 5, 2007

+1 The novatac ROCKS

whc · Sep 5, 2007

Loves my Novatac 120P, have not had any problems with it, use it every day, in all conditions, never failed on me. The beam it just perfect, and the tint WOW just so white

.

Yep novatac ROCKS...

faco · Sep 5, 2007

I also have the NovaTac EDC 120P, it has no problems at all (except for the crappy clip) This crappy clip is having a rest sitting in a draw. Good point about no holes in the body if the clip isn't used.

Best beam/tint I have seen so far. Also the UI is easy to learn and use.

I really like using this light daily as my work light :thumbsup:

mightysparrow · Sep 5, 2007

I bought two 120P lights and have tested them at all levels. So far, no problems, except for an off-center LED in one light that makes no difference to me. I find the UI easier to use than the HDS U60's I owned.

My Novatacs do not buzz, they have long runtimes on primary batteries (much longer than with rechargables), and I actually like the direction the clip faces, because it is possible to clip the light to a pocket and use it for map reading, seeing camera controls in dim light, etc. I don't mind that I can't clip the light to a hat, as I would use a lighter flashlight for that purpose.

The fit and finish of my Novatacs are very nice. Sure, it is irritating that the bright white lettering/numbering of the brand logo, model number and serial number are wearing off from light handling already, but I've read in this forum that there is some permanent etching underneath the white, so I don't mind. The resale value is affected by that, but I don't plan to resell these lights.

I'm happy enough with my Novatac's that I've sold my two U60's in a fit of "practicality," as I don't REALLY need them. Sure, I was attached to them, but all in all my 120p's are more useful lights for me all around.

Yes, you're going to see more complaints than compliments on any light in this forum. As with any product, the dissatisfied customers are more likely to speak out than are the satisfied customers. Also, yes, we are a more picky bunch when it comes to fit and finish, off-center LED's, etc. What matters in quality control is the percentage of serious problems out of all the units sold. I don't know the statistics for these lights, and I doubt any of us every will. I guess if enough people have enough problems, Novatac will see disappointing sales and/or many returns, and they will consider the lessons learned when developing their next lights.

cslinger · Sep 5, 2007

I have two Novatacs. No problems to report. I like them as much as my HDS lights.

My only complaint and this is nit picking is the clip orientation. I too, wish it was positioned to be used on bill of a ball cap. But that is my biggest complaint.

Chris

aceo07 · Sep 5, 2007

gadgetnerd said:
Part of the enjoyment of getting a new torch is jumping on CPF and reading about how much pleasure it gives other users. I was thrilled to receive my Novatac 120P a few days ago, but upon logging in to CPF to share the love I notice that there's been a bit of Novatac bashing on CPF lately. I know CPF users are enthusiasts with an eye for detail and pretty high expectations, but to be honest I'm quite mystified as to the level of Novatac dissatisfaction - lot of it from people who quite obviously don't own one or simply hate Novatac because Henry left.

Personally I think Novatac have done a great job to bring an extremely high performance semicustom light out at a pretty good price point. Yes they have some QC issues, just as HDS did. Maybe Novatac's higher volume of production exacerbates this? However they (and their dealers) also have incredible responsive customer service which largely offsets the QC issues.

I've owned lots of torches and none of them did I consider perfect in every way. This includes both the HDS and Novatac. Here's how mine compare:

Torch: HDS B42 | Novatac 120P
Price: $90 (special) U60 was >$250 retail | $150
Finish: Some defects in anodising | Perfect finish and colour matching
Threads: Smooth | Smooth
O rings: Thin, easily damaged | Thicker and more robust
Reflector: Some dust and smudges | Some dust
LED: Perfectly centered, some smudging| Off centre (easy fix), some smudging (lube?)
Lens: AR UCL no dust | AR Polycarbonate no dust
Bezel: Flush | Protruding, scalloped
Beam: Perfect | Perfect
Tint: Slightly yellow | Perfect white
Runtime (max): 35 min on RCR123 | 40 min on RCR123
UI: Easy to use, 250 clicks to program! | Easily used and programmed
Flickering: 1-2 sec when changing modes | 1-2 sec when changing modes
Noise: Whines audibly on primary | Silent in all modes
Clip: Crap | Crap, but no holes in light if not used
Packaging: Ziploc bag | Nice foam box

Now I know I'm not comparing apples to apples (more like oranges to mandarins) here as the Novatac is not simply a rebadged HDS. All in all though I think I've bought a winner with the 120P. If I had to get rid of all torches bar one, this is the one I'd keep. I'd be interested to know how your HDS and Novatac lights compare.

I'm not sure if it's actually bashing. I love to have people nitpick at a light while I'm deciding what to buy.

In your comparison, there are a few things I think are a little off.
Price: The U60 was only ~$160-$170 when I bought it. That was before the new tube and before the big sale. The $250 price was probably for a U60XRGT, which had a rare led.
O-rings: My U60 O-rings haven't been damaged yet and I replace batteries often. I also haven't noticed many complaints about this one.
Tint: This shouldn't really be compared since the led technology back then wasn't as readily available. Back then, hitting 60 lumens WITH a good tint was more of a lottery and rare. Now, 120+ lumens isn't as hard so you can be picky about tint.
UI: The U60 didn't take 250 clicks to program. It only took 10. The B42 did take 250 clicks.
Runtime: As stated before, it was limited by led technology and what was available.
Packing: I suppose a foam box is a little nicer than a ziploc.

I don't own a Novatac, I'm cheap and have upgraded my HDS to seoul led. Therefore, my comments are limited to the HDS or other's runtime graphs.

warpdrive · Sep 5, 2007

+1

My 120P has some flickering issues on low settings, but I decided not to use those bottom 3 levels and so I don't notice that bug anymore. Otherwise, the 120P is still my favorite light (supplanting my U60GT). Mine has a bit of anodizing body mismatch which doesn't bother me in the least bit. I actually like the clip too! Go figure.

As far as the other "bashing" posts, I haven't really noticed that much of that except for reporting of real issues which I welcome reading about. It would have been nice if the light was perfect but life is too short to worry about all the little things like that. I just want to enjoy using my light.

kelmo · Sep 5, 2007

Once I got my 85P I put my B42 XRGT in storage. My light has a "birthmark" on the tail and is a little "cockeyed." It misbehaves on low, a transient pulsing on the lowest levels, a "ghost in the machine?" It is now my main trail/camp light.

It's not perfect but I'm happy.

kelmo

Dadof6 · Sep 5, 2007

But the genius of Novatac is that the clip can be used either on the head so that it can be used on a ball cap like the HDS' or you can connect it closer to the tail.

I love my Novatac.

jcompton · Sep 5, 2007

Dadof6 said:
But the genius of Novatac is that the clip can be used either on the head so that it can be used on a ball cap like the HDS' or you can connect it closer to the tail.

I love my Novatac.

Was the intention really such that the end user would be able to place the clip under the bezel??? This just seems like it could jeopardize the integrity of the light and put unnecessary strain on the bezel/threads. But what do I know, I don't even have mine yet :shrug:

matrixshaman · Sep 5, 2007

Dizos said:
I haven't noticed much bashing. Negative comments have mostly been first hand user reports of problems. I agree it is unpleasant to hear something negative about a product which you already purchased, but for others who are contemplating the purchase it is helpful to hear from individual user experiences. I preordered the Novatac and watched with trepidation as some negative feedback arrived. I felt very happy with the light after it arrived despite some fit/finish issues. Then I discovered that mine had the low level light pulsing problem, discussed on this forum (which I'm sure Novatac will ultimately resolve) but I found it impacted the utility of the light for my purposes. My light ended up completely dying, so I returned it for a refund. I'm out $30 shipping since I am not in the US. I wish I had waited until the product bugs were ironed out before purchasing.

Sorry you got a bad one but I don't know why you didn't just get it repaired or replaced. I've never heard of a single product that didn't have an occassional problem.
The original price on HDS U60's - I'm fairly sure that was in the $195 range when they first came out. And that was long enough ago that inflation would probably bump that up to an equivalent $210-225 range now. So the Novatac seemed priced well and I'm guessing the proliferation of much more competition in the market now had something to do with pricing it lower too.
I think it's a great light and a good deal for the price. Now the clip - well I just took mine and stomped on it a while so that now it's as low of profile as the HDS clip was

(a vise works well for this little mod)

Novatac bashing...

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