Why won't people comment on SmartFire line?

mick53 · Sep 11, 2007

Hi guys,

In the past few days I have posted asking questions about SmartFire flashlights.

The posts have been read by over 60 people but no one has responded.

I was originally asking about the SmartFire M-504C, you know, questions like:

I was wondering what kind of runtime and light output it has? With it running on 4 Cs I'm thinking it must run a failry long runtime. Anyone know if it's regulated?

The desc. says it has a Cree XR-E LED emitter. From what I read it's a good one. True?

But not a word, not a peep out of anyone. Usually there are a lot of responses to questions like this.

Does SmartFire suck that bad that everyone knows it but me?

Mike

clg0159 · Sep 11, 2007

I have also had posts go completely unanswered for one reason or another:thinking:
I know there are many extremely knowledgable folks here some of which could and do not answer :poke:

. I am sure that no one actually owning the light has read your post as this is the only logical reason in this case for no replies. Good luck, and I'm sure eventually you will find what you are looking for.

frank777 · Sep 11, 2007

No comment.

nerdgineer · Sep 11, 2007

Before the conspiracy theories start showing up, I suggest that this is due to: 1) the very many similar lights showing up on DX and KD; and 2) the relatively few reviewers who are set up to do automated runtime testing.

Quickbeam who used to do the excellent flashlightreviews.com retired. There are some excellent reviews of DX/Kai type lights around, but that site has taken about 8 months to develop so far and it has only done a fraction of the DX/Kai lights available. The rest of the testers have understandably done fewer

Just speculating, but it may also be that the advanced hobbyists who are set up for runtime testing also have a tendency to look at higher end lights because that is where their evolved interests lie.

I do agree that runtime testing is the most interesting, most difficult, and therefore hardest to find test for any type of light. Thanks to all out there (selfbuilt, Chevrofreak, et al) who take the time to do them and share.

Kiessling · Sep 11, 2007

Well ... one interpretation would be that the knowledge base of CPF is spread thin and watered down with the huge influx of XXX-Fire lights and god-knows-what-else cheapo lights. There are a lot of members that do take but a lot less that actually give something back to the community.

Then ... the truly knowledgeable in the art of flashlights just don't bother to read XXX-Fire threads any more.

Due to those kind of lights the quality or worthy content of the average post has decreased significantly over the last year or so. Before that, CPF was about state-of-the-art flashlights, about modding and about community. Nowadays we are about the best bang-for-the-buck light and about a consumer vs seller relationship.

Do I sound bitter? Yes. This is no longer the place I came to visit to enjoy my hobby. It has less and less to offer. Brightness and price aren't everything.

bernie

P.S.: I am sorry if I am offending a large number of members with my views. I truly am. I do not want to sound like an arrogant snob or so, I do not want to throw out those lights that you all love so much, and I surely would never want you to think that you haven't the same "rights" to discuss the lights you like on CPF as everyone else.
But please accept that what you love is actually a toxin for my vision of our hobby. I have chosen not to remain silent any more. I have opted to speak out as I think that XXX-Fire et al have reduced the quality of CPF as a whole, and thus are slowly ruining it for me.

This is not about China vs USA, not about expensive vs cheap ... it is about the fact that CPF was a cutting edge forum a few years ago, a forum at the tip of the spear of progress in the flashlight world ... a great place. It isnt so any more.
For various reasons, one being the crushing wave of those kind of lights that dominate the whole place.

That said ... I do not even read >90% of the threads at CPF any more. I opted to remove myself from the part of the discussions that I see as harmful for my vision of the hobby. Not becasue I feel superior or because I am a snob ... but because I am afraid that CPF will be just as interesting as ebay soon ...

mhubble · Sep 11, 2007

Tag for later.

EricMack · Sep 11, 2007

You are not offending me, BK. Now, I'm sure I may offend some, but its not intentional. CPF is simply drowning in posts about the cheap light of the week. That holds no interest for me, and since except for B/S/T and Don's forum, its ALL about throw-away lights, CPF has very little relevance for me any longer. Very sorry to say that, but its true.

Good luck to everyone. :sigh:

:poof:

EM

Outdoors Fanatic · Sep 11, 2007

Kiessling said:
Well ... one interpretation would be that the knowledge base of CPF is spread thin and watered down with the huge influx of XXX-Fire lights and god-knows-what-else cheapo lights. There are a lot of members that do take but a lot less that actually give something back to the community.

Then ... the truly knowledgeable in the art of flashlights just don't bother to read XXX-Fire threads any more.

Due to those kind of lights the quality or worthy content of the average post has decreased significantly over the last year or so. Before that, CPF was about state-of-the-art flashlights, about modding and about community. Nowadays we are about the best bang-for-the-buck light and about a consumer vs seller relationship.

Do I sound bitter? Yes. This is no longer the place I came to visit to enjoy my hobby. It has less and less to offer. Brightness and price aren't everything.

bernie

P.S.: I am sorry if I am offending a large number of members with my views. I truly am. I do not want to sound like an arrogant snob or so, I do not want to throw out those lights that you all love so much, and I surely would never want you to think that you haven't the same "rights" to discuss the lights you like on CPF as everyone else.
But please accept that what you love is actually a toxin for my vision of our hobby. I have chosen not to remain silent any more. I have opted to speak out as I think that XXX-Fire et al have reduced the quality of CPF as a whole, and thus are slowly ruining it for me.

This is not about China vs USA, not about expensive vs cheap ... it is about the fact that CPF was a cutting edge forum a few years ago, a forum at the tip of the spear of progress in the flashlight world ... a great place. It isnt so any more.
For various reasons, one being the crushing wave of those kind of lights that dominate the whole place.

That said ... I do not even read >90% of the threads at CPF any more. I opted to remove myself from the part of the discussions that I see as harmful for my vision of the hobby. Not becasue I feel superior or because I am a snob ... but because I am afraid that CPF will be just as interesting as ebay soon ...

+1

Great post!!

That's precisely the only reason I started avoiding the LED section lately. The El Cheapo's invasion kind of killed the CPF's soul and spirit. Fortunately, there is some of that still alive in the Customs/Modding, HID and Incan sections. As you said, CPF was all about state-of-the-art lighting tools , now it's about State-of-Bargain stuff.

defloyd77 · Sep 11, 2007

It's kind of funny how there can be so many threads on the same lights covering the same ol same (cough Fenix), but one person is looking to come into the flashlight hobby and is looking to the "experts" for some advice on a light that's in THEIR price range, not a single word said. Not everybody wants to spend hundreds of dollars on a light when they're fine with a cheaper light. Would it honestly kill ya if enlightened someone and not by saying get a Fenix or something like that?:shakehead

Phaetos · Sep 11, 2007

Outdoors Fanatic said:
state-of-the-art lightning tools

I still haven't seen any of these lightning tools on here yet. Must be missing the secret forums on these hand held lightning devices.

clg0159 · Sep 11, 2007

I fully understand that the truly enlightened modders may not be interested in reading threads about lower end lights and do not blame you.....that does NOT mean this is not still the place for you! This is a community of people sharing a common interest in lighting no matter what niche you fall into. EVERYONE was a newb at some point and I hope this board stays full of knowledgable folks, but I also hope those same folks welcome all input and stay involved or this will no longer be CPF!:mecry:

Jay T · Sep 11, 2007

defloyd77 said:
It's kind of funny how there can be so many threads on the same lights covering the same ol same (cough Fenix), but one person is looking to come into the flashlight hobby and is looking to the "experts" for some advice on a light that's in THEIR price range, not a single word said. Not everybody wants to spend hundreds of dollars on a light when they're fine with a cheaper light. Would it honestly kill ya if enlightened someone and not by saying get a Fenix or something like that?:shakehead

Well Mr. defloyde77 I did not respond because of the same reason as the other people who haven't responded. That being I have never seen, held, or quite frankly even heard of this light.

If you wish to blast me and the others as being unresponsive, arrogant, and uncaring for not replying on a subject on which we have no information then so be it.

May I now ask you Mr. defloyde77 to give us the needed information on this light........

If you do not respond I shall simply write you off as being an unresponsive arrogant uncaring poster.

Illum · Sep 11, 2007

Kiessling said:
P.S.: I am sorry if I am offending a large number of members with my views. I truly am. I do not want to sound like an arrogant snob or so, I do not want to throw out those lights that you all love so much, and I surely would never want you to think that you haven't the same "rights" to discuss the lights you like on CPF as everyone else.
But please accept that what you love is actually a toxin for my vision of our hobby. I have chosen not to remain silent any more. I have opted to speak out as I think that XXX-Fire et al have reduced the quality of CPF as a whole, and thus are slowly ruining it for me.

Bernie, your position as a moderator you've seen more threads than the typical cpfer has and I have no doubt that your response didn't come from nowhere....as carrot's "not a sheep" thread the forum has shifted from its original position to something once considered redundant and secondary...its become materialistic rather than abstract, and new users favor "seeing is believing" results and naturally emphasize on performance on the basis of price, etc.

you are not a snob, thats for sure. A snob doesn't give a logical explanation for his response nor the politeness you've shown in your posts. Despite your best intentions it is impossible change the current ideology in buying low budget lights without p155ing someone off....its a sickness, and a tragedy that the forum has lost the quality it once had...[I've only joined recently compared to you and others but I read up on the archives and the archived threads have more insightful content and humor than the objective threads thats been bobbing up and down the forum halls....with the tendency of its topics being "this vs "this," "what would you recommend," etc....not much technical data here.] :sigh: ..move along

every time things like this pops up the thread eventually leads to China vs USA....and people wonder why threads that initially was informative and well conceived become war zones of politics and what not...:candle:
It is my belief that the absence in responses to this sort of threads are the experienced folks method of intentionally avoiding the subject for fear of the topic going down hill on the argument of personal opinions...but thats just me

defloyd77 said:
Would it honestly kill ya if enlightened someone and not by saying get a Fenix or something like that?:shakehead

the uproar is deafening...even from the "experts" :ohgeez:

one almost has to specify "other than fenix" in the threads to get results...and with that 3 words one would most likely start an argument on "why not fenix"

Phaetos said:
I still haven't seen any of these lightning tools on here yet. Must be missing the secret forums on these hand held lightning devices.

mostly creative prototypes made from out of the box concepts....you rarely see things like this nowadays
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/138999

defloyd77 · Sep 11, 2007

Jay T said:
Well Mr. defloyde77 I did not respond because of the same reason as the other people who haven't responded. That being I have never seen, held, or quite frankly even heard of this light.

If you wish to blast me and the others as being unresponsive, arrogant, and uncaring for not replying on a subject on which we have no information then so be it.

May I now ask you Mr. defloyde77 to give us the needed information on this light........

If you do not respond I shall simply write you off as being an unresponsive arrogant uncaring poster.

I am not talking about the lack of knowledge about a certain light, I'm talking about the attitude some of these people have toward people like me who don't have a whole load of money to spend on flashlights or simply don't wish to spend that much on one and those who don't know much about flashlights in general. Those of us who take more than give at these forums, really don't have much to give, being that most of us aren't that experienced with flashlights. And sorry I do not know anything about Smartfire.

alphazeta · Sep 11, 2007

Going back ON TOPIC & all the way back to the OP, I will say that I believe it's doubtful that specific 4C light is in anyone's hands yet. If my memory serves me correctly, it did not appear on DX's site that long ago.

But in reference to the enormous herd of generic cree lights available for sale, it has indeed become hard to keep track or care for most of them.

At least the light you mentioned is in a somewhat "uncommon" 4C format and may fill a need not met by other currently available Cree lights.

However, for a review to be made, there most of course be someone who initially buys it first. Sometimes, one needs to be proactive & just bite the bullet & try it out... & then post a review here of course :thumbsup:

Outdoors Fanatic · Sep 11, 2007

Phaetos said:
I still haven't seen any of these lightning tools on here yet. Must be missing the secret forums on these hand held lightning devices.

That's why you joined on May 2007, Mr 55 posts.

selfbuilt · Sep 11, 2007

Interesting discussion - I can certainly appreciate the various perspectives posted here. This is certainly a topic worthy of further rational discussion.

I like to do comparative reviews of low- to mid-range lights, so that people with limited resources can make informed choices on how to spend their hard-earned cash. This is part of my attempt "to give something back" to the community.

From that perspective, the whole "smartfire/ultrafire" brand is very problematic. Not only is there a huge proliferation of models over time (making it difficult to keep track), model changes happen rapidly within a given line, often with no change in identifying labels.

But it's actually much worse than that. I don't know if ultrafire/smartfire was originally a single brand under control of one manufacturer, but that clearly is no longer the case. It now seems that different manufacturers will brand their lights using a common specific "ultrafire" model designation. Whether with tacit approval (i.e. group rights to some sort of loose specs), or deliberate malfeasance (i.e counterfeiting), I don't know. But this means that depending on the supplier batch for any given lot, you never really know quite what you are in for. Multiply that by all the constantly re-jigged on-the-fly models, and you are left with a near impossible task as a consumer (or reviewer).

The short answer, for the OP, is that some smartfire/ultrafires have what I consider to be minimally acceptable quality, and some don't. But it's near impossible to know beforehand which is which. If you aren't willing to gamble, I suggest sticking with a more consitent "brand name" and model number that has consistent reviews here.

Radio · Sep 11, 2007

Bernie, I'll edit your post and you get three days off to think about your snobbish behaviour! :crackup:

:tinfoil:

luminata · Sep 11, 2007

Everything changes, nothing stays as it was. In the 2 or so years I have frequented these forums I have seen a huge increase in the availability of custom lights/parts and accessories. I have also noticed an increase in hostility and argumentative behaviour of which I have been guilty of myself and thusly made a self promise to stop doing. To me there seem to be many improvments to this forum. Each cutom builder/modder who wants can have his own area. Dealers have their own area. The search engine seems to work much better.
I find if there is nothing worth reading, I go away for a week or so and when I come back there is a good cpl hours of entertaining stuff to read/look at . people post more andmore great pics of their gear and the site stays up to date. There are so many great contributers and the support staff work hard to keep things going smoothly.
If the regular trenches of led/general flashlight forums are too clogged for someone there are multiple custom builder/modder rooms to frequent now and people like MCgizmo are always coming up with something new. I cant afford any of it but it's fun to look at and drool over.
So why throw in the towel now? :shrug:

jrv · Sep 11, 2007

mick53 said:
I was originally asking about the SmartFire M-504C,

It's not likely many have heard of SmartFire before. Being it's a DealExtreme thing I'm skeptical but having no evidence I can't post.

Kiessling said:
Before that, CPF was about state-of-the-art flashlights, about modding and about community. Nowadays we are about the best bang-for-the-buck light and about a consumer vs seller relationship.

It will soon be necessary to split the LED flashlight forum for this and other reasons, perhaps HID too. It's just not clear to me what a good way to do it is.

I can deal with the Wal-Mart crowd after only lumens per $$$ - there's nothing wrong with being cost-conscious - it's the people that believe no one should value any other characteristics that are annoying. I grow weary of explaining that it is NOT morally corrupt to pay a little more for a flashlight that won't break when dropped on concrete, or that need not be immediately rescued from a puddle for fear water might leak in.

The thread "The Beast II - Who in their right mind????" is a good example - it was not a question about what might differentiate the light from a Sam's Club special but rather a declaration that anyone buying one was insane since lumens/dollar is the only thing that matters.

Outdoors Fanatic said:
That's why you joined on May 2007, Mr 55 posts.

Join dates and post counts can't be relied on. I joined several years ago, took a break for several months, and could not log back in. That was fixed, but my post count and join dates were reset.

Why won't people comment on SmartFire line?

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