Regulation not as important?

With popular CR123 lights like the amilite t5, and ultrafire R1/R2... is regulation really that important? I know most run RCR123 but still, I want my lights bright and consistantly so for as long as possible.

To me it is. Thats why I do not own one of them. I've seen the runtime charts for these and I must say I'm not impressed.

not trying to start any controversy but please.. you're expert thoughts are welcomed.

Flame suit on for brand loyal folks out there... Don't get me wrong.. both the lights mentioned are the cream of the crop except for the regulation part.

I own the inova X5 which AFAIK is an unregulated light, and I've run it to drain once and could honestly not notice reduction in light output until near its death.

Personally I think lithium discharge curves are good enough that regulation is not nearly as important, though still nice to have.

jdong said:

Personally I think lithium discharge curves are good enough that regulation is not nearly as important, though still nice to have.

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That is the key. Lithium batteries have a very low voltage drop until they are almost fully discharged. Regulation is a must (if you want a flashlight with constant output) if you feed your light with alkaline batteries (even saline ones are still sold in many countries), and it is very convenient for lights feed with NiMH batteries.

Since I had my first regulated light, I only have bought led regulated lights. I prefer buying less flashlights and spending much more on every one. Note: For me lithium is not an option, so all my lights are running on NiMH's.

CandlePowerForumsUser said:

With popular CR123 lights like the amilite t5, and ultrafire R1/R2... is regulation really that important? I know most run RCR123 but still, I want my lights bright and consistantly so for as long as possible.

To me it is. Thats why I do not own one of them. I've seen the runtime charts for these and I must say I'm not impressed.

not trying to start any controversy but please.. you're expert thoughts are welcomed.

Flame suit on for brand loyal folks out there... Don't get me wrong.. both the lights mentioned are the cream of the crop except for the regulation part.

Click to expand...

For whatever reason I only buy lights that are fully regulated, but I think the reason for that is because almost all high quality lights are now fully regulated.
If I remember correctly the Amilite T5 is regulated, but most Ultrafire lights are not since they are rather cheap. I wouldn't call anything made by Ultrafire anywhere near the cream of the crop, but it is pretty decent considering the price/performance.

I find it kind of funny that some people want it both ways: they expect the brightness to stay the same as battery voltage drops (i.e. regulation), but also expect the light to get brighter as they increase the voltage by using different kinds of batteries.

Sacrificing extreme brightness for lack of good regulation (good as in flat output like the surefire E2L or any of the cree/rebel fenix ligths) is a step back IMO. I don't care for the whole "WOW THATS BRIGHT"... for the first 5 mins or so of a freshly charged battery, I just want good wholesome reliable consistent output.

I've been turned off my alot of the lights currently available because of poor regulation even with lithium batteries.

Interestingly, I've seen UltraFire boast nonregulation because you know when the battery's gonna give before it totally dies. Too bad most regulated lights have a moon mode ;-)

I like some kind of regulation even if only Flupic type (PWM), especially when using a single LiIon.

Bill

adirondackdestroyer said:

For whatever reason I only buy lights that are fully regulated, but I think the reason for that is because almost all high quality lights are now fully regulated.
If I remember correctly the Amilite T5 is regulated, but most Ultrafire lights are not since they are rather cheap. I wouldn't call anything made by Ultrafire anywhere near the cream of the crop, but it is pretty decent considering the price/performance.

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I own both the Amilite Neo T5 and the Ultrafire EMR1 Rebel. Supertactical's ad for the EMR1 indicates that it is "Digital Regulated - constant brightness" and "Current: 700~800mA Regulated." I have not drained my EMR1 to test it.

I will say that based on performance and build quality the EMR1 offers quite a bang for the buck. It's not nearly as nice in quality or performance as the Amilite T5 but I do like the EMR1.

robo21 said:

I own both the Amilite Neo T5 and the Ultrafire EMR1 Rebel. Supertactical's ad for the EMR1 indicates that it is "Digital Regulated - constant brightness" and "Current: 700~800mA Regulated." I have not drained my EMR1 to test it.

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Don't believe everything you read. I drained a R123 in mine, it started at about 130lm and was 70lm 24 min. later when the battery's protection kicked in. Here's a runtime graph.

Nake said:

Don't believe everything you read. I drained a R123 in mine, it started at about 130lm and was 70lm 24 min. later when the battery's protection kicked in. Here's a runtime graph.

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Thanks for the info. Like I said, I haven't drained a battery in the EMR1 yet and I worded my post to say that "the ad on Supertactical indicates..." I am skeptical of advertising claims on all such sites. Now I know why.

So based upon your experience there is no regulation whatsoever, correct? How can they advertise regulation, if there is no regulation?

I don't have enough knowledge of circuit boards to say what is being regulated, maybe the digits.

I have actually posted a thread exactly like this one highlighting the strengths of nonregulated lights. Case and point: While hiking, I made it to the top of Half Dome Yosemite at sunset. It was to be a long hike back in the dark. My X5 which my cousin was using was not regulated and my Black Diamond SPOT headlamp was also not regulated. The lights provided a consistent slow decline in output such that I was able to navigate the entire trip without "losing light". At then end of the hike, I finally said to myself, "My, my lights are kind of dim". However, my other light that I had in my hand, a SF L6, went from bright to dim instantly at one point!

A nonregulated light doesn't surprise you when it's time to change the batteries. Also, your eyes are gradually adjusting to the change in output. With a regulated light, how much runtime do you have left at any given point? I've said this before, with a nonregulated light, you choose when to change the batteries, whereas with a regulated light, you are pretty much left with no choice.

I must make a disclaimer though, nonregulated lights are not always the best. I am simply highlighting their strengths.

I prefer regulation for lights in which I feel I need LIGHT immediately and all at once when I hit the button. However, there is still that sense of insecurity that you've run to the end of the battery's life and you may be caught off guard as far as a battery change.

Nake, that light might be regulated, but it looks like that high is overdriving the battery, at the same time that heat is reducing output from the led. If that light was capable of running on a strong 18650 then the curve would not be so extreme downward, though heat would still drive the output down. High is pulling to many mA's from that small RCR123.

Bill

Bullzeyebill said:

Nake, that light might be regulated, but it looks like that high is overdriving the battery, at the same time that heat is reducing output from the led. If that light was capable of running on a strong 18650 then the curve would not be so extreme downward, though heat would still drive the output down. High is pulling to many mA's from that small RCR123.

Bill

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Sounds reasonable, because high is awesome on the EMR1 for the size/price it's very impressive.

Bullzeyebill said:

Nake, that light might be regulated, but it looks like that high is overdriving the battery, at the same time that heat is reducing output from the led. If that light was capable of running on a strong 18650 then the curve would not be so extreme downward, though heat would still drive the output down. High is pulling to many mA's from that small RCR123.

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Exactly the point I wanted to make. The propriety of regulation depends largely on the size and chemistry of the battery. The high internal resistance of alkalines makes them totally unsuitable for regulated lights, IMO. You push them harder and they just get hotter, wasting energy while the light gets dimmer and dimmer anyway. NiMH is my preferred chemistry, and works well with regulation. When it comes to Li chemistries, including rechargeables, the output is quite flat already. The real issue is where moon mode begins; I feel that you should have a reasonable period of diminishing light before the battery reaches damagingly low voltage. I really like the HDS/Novatac system, wherein you get decreasing yet consistent output, and you know when the battery is dangerously low yet have the option of running it completely dead.

Bullzeyebill said:

Nake, that light might be regulated, but it looks like that high is overdriving the battery, at the same time that heat is reducing output from the led. If that light was capable of running on a strong 18650 then the curve would not be so extreme downward, though heat would still drive the output down. High is pulling to many mA's from that small RCR123.

Bill

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Right, I just measured a 4.08V R123 for amp pull at the tailcap and it showed 1.7A, cookin.