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Thread: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

  1. #1

    Shrug LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    A good buddy of mine is getting deployed to Iraq soon and I wanted to get him a bright, reliable, light for his tour of duty. He really likes the SF G2 for its durability and the light weight of the nitrolon. My concern is the reliability of the P60 lamp with burning out and its availability if something happens. I would like to get a LED drop-in for it which is bright, has good runtime and more importantly is tough enough to withstand the military demands of Iraq. I have the Bugout Gear premium plus in my 6PD and love it but am not too sure if its tough enough for actual military use. Any thoughts on a drop-in (i.e. bugout, malkoff, wolf-eyes, etc.) for the G2 meeting these criteria and actual proof/testimonial would be great. Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    How about SureFire's own P60L?
    When you buy it at the moment is comes complete with a G2! Two lights better than one... Interchangeable components etc.

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    Flashaholic* Derek Dean's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Howdy discohero,
    You might want to do a bit of checking around the various US troops support sites before deciding on a light for your friend. Brightest is not always best. I've read various statements on this forum from returning service men saying that what they needed was either a low level white, or even a low level red LED light.

    Following those guidelines I would think the Surefire Aviator with the red LEDs might be something to consider.

    Edit: I just happened to notice an A2 on the CPF MarketPlace which actually includes both the red and white LED rings for a very fair price, shipped:
    http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...d.php?t=169734
    Last edited by Derek Dean; 09-26-2007 at 02:23 AM.

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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Discohero,

    I agree with Size15's, Why not just get him the new Surefire G2L which comes with SF's new P60L (Seoul P4 LED). Here is a link to the G2L on SF's website: http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/...andreg-sup-LED

    I have the 6PL (aluminum version) and it is rock solid.
    "One is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." (Lt. COL. Jeff Cooper U.S.M.C.)

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    * The Arctic Moderator * Sigman's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's View Post
    How about SureFire's own P60L?
    When you buy it at the moment is comes complete with a G2! Two lights better than one... Interchangeable components etc.
    What? where have I been (better not answer that one!)...do you have a link Al?
    -"Must control self"-
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    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigman View Post
    What? where have I been (better not answer that one!)...do you have a link Al?
    Go to SureFire.com - the Yellow G2L (featuring the P60L) is on their front page!

    SureFire are offering the P60L as part of the G2L, and 6PL flashlights.
    In due course there is expectation the P60L will be offered as an accessory.
    It is intended to replace the P60, and can even be used to replace the P90 in the 9P/G3/C3.

    Al

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    *Flashaholic* Gunner12's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Here's the thing. If you want max output and maybe multi modes, go with a third party Drop-in. If you want bright but also long runtime, then go for the G2L or P6L.

    Best of luck to your friend.

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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    The G2 is a plastic flashlight and it gets very HOT in Iraq. If you want to get him a light that he will use, not break and keep him out of hazards way... the light must have programmable output and thermal protection.

    The Novatac 120 lumen model should work. You can go low or high and press on. The lights I will take to Iraq next year will be the Peak First Responder three Seoul SSC flashlight with variable output. The second will be a LRI Proton single AA light with variable output white and variable output red LEDs. The Peak will eat 17500 lithium-ion cells with the three Seoul LEDs fed between 10mA (low) to 800mA (high) each. A nice knob to adjust output/runtime as needed. LRI better make a good quality Proton this time, been waiting for over 2.5 years for them to get it right.
    Peak Pacific AAA UP brass (EDC) E01 (keys), Peaks, Arcs, Fenix, Q5 Aspheric HA-III Mag etc.

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    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by BentHeadTX View Post
    The G2 is a plastic flashlight and it gets very HOT in Iraq.
    Tends to be pretty cold a nights as well...

    How about getting feedback from those with experience in theatre doing the same type of role you will be doing?

    The feedback I've read is that the G2 is extremely popular for use in Iraq with many soldiers using them as lights for their carbines/rifles etc.
    Since aftermarket LED dropins are not supported, and the G2L is pretty new I would advocate having a couple G2's in addition to any LED lights you decide on.
    Last edited by Size15's; 09-26-2007 at 06:19 PM.

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    * The Arctic Moderator * Sigman's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's View Post
    ...SureFire are offering the P60L as part of the G2L, and 6PL flashlights...
    Ohhh, I thought I was getting a G2L AND a G2...now I understand. (Do I? )
    -"Must control self"-
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by BentHeadTX View Post
    The G2 is a plastic flashlight and it gets very HOT in Iraq. If you want to get him a light that he will use, not break and keep him out of hazards way... the light must have programmable output and thermal protection.
    Have there been ANY documented reports of G2's, G2L's or any Surefire "non-programmable" lights breaking on a regular basis due to heat issues or otherwise out in Iraq? All due respect, but what is the basis for your statement?
    "One is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." (Lt. COL. Jeff Cooper U.S.M.C.)

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    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigman View Post
    Ohhh, I thought I was getting a G2L AND a G2...now I understand. (Do I? )
    The G2L is the LED version of the G2.
    The 6PL is the LED version of the 6P.

    The G2/6P features the P60 incandescent lamp assembly.

    The G2L/6PL features the P60L LED lamp assembly.

    "L" for L.E.D.

  13. #13

    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's View Post
    Tends to be pretty cold a nights as well...

    How about getting feedback from those with experience in theatre doing the same type of role you will be doing?

    The feedback I've read is that the G2 is extremely popular for use in Iraq with many soldiers using them as lights for their carbines/rifles etc.
    Since aftermarket LED dropins are not supported, and the G2L is pretty new I would advocate having a couple G2's in addition to any LED lights you decide on.


    I have my best friend over there right now.
    He has a G2 and it has served him well, no complaints although when we talk I ask how his gear is holding up and he likes his light thats all he had positive to say about any of his equipment, although I know he likes his Chris Reeve Sebenza knife I got him as well. Anyway, God bless our troops! Hope you get the right one for your buddy and he makes it home safe.
    Last edited by INFI; 09-26-2007 at 07:19 PM.
    SF L1 CREE
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by Size15's View Post
    Tends to be pretty cold a nights as well...

    How about getting feedback from those with experience in theatre doing the same type of role you will be doing?

    The feedback I've read is that the G2 is extremely popular for use in Iraq with many soldiers using them as lights for their carbines/rifles etc.
    Since aftermarket LED dropins are not supported, and the G2L is pretty new I would advocate having a couple G2's in addition to any LED lights you decide on.
    I get a ton of feedback, trust me!

    The following lights have failed in Iraq
    Inova X5 LED failure due to heat
    Streamlight Luxeon Jr. LED failure/switch failure (heat and dust)
    Arc AAA-P board failure due to bad batch of transistors
    Minimag with BB500 R2H sandwich heat failure

    Lights that held up to extensive use. Extensive means used during the day in the heat when working in dark places and running for hours on end at night providing light.

    Peak Matterhorn/Killamanjaro white/red/UV lights (lanyard lights)
    Mag 2D with MadMax+ and Luxeon R2H mod (used at night to work on projects) Remove head for a great flood light.
    Arc AA with NiMH 1.2V rechargable

    The lights that worked were used in Iraq and Afghanistan 2004 to 2006 by myself and others.

    Next light going under test. Peak First Responder with different reflectors, additional heat sink for the head and two 17500 lithium-ion batteries. Placed used... Iraq by an Army scout. It will head to him in November when I get his address and send the package. The First Responder will replace the Surefire G2, E2E and Streamlight Strion he uses presently.

    I will get the light back next summer and mod it with R5 bins and Fraen FRC reflectors and take it with me to ??? (starts with a vowel)

    The G2 is a great light... because it is CHEAP! No complaints to pick up a light that bright for $30. HUGE complaints when it comes time to feed the battery eating light though. Life is good when using rechargable cells, having 400 lumens and variable power output.

    I don't kick down doors but I do hang up a light in a huge shipping container that needs to be unloaded during the day... in the hot sun... it is painted green... the heat is almost unbearable but it does let me know the heat sinking ability of flashlights. I would not trust a G2 with a drop-in LED to run for two hours in 140F (60C) heat.

    The only thing I trust is a light that either adjusts the output down when hot or has enough mass to keep the LED(s) cool. Hell, even a MagLED has thermal adjusting drive levels! Get a MadLED 3D and use it for area lighting... remove the head and it is an awesome flood light.

    Still want to see the reviews of the LRI Proton with variable white and red LED output. It would fit well on the body armor loops and runs a single AA. No recommendation until I see a review and the positive contact in the head.

    If you need a weapon light, get a Surefire... if you need an EDC for crazy heat/cold and nastiness... get the Novatach.
    Peak Pacific AAA UP brass (EDC) E01 (keys), Peaks, Arcs, Fenix, Q5 Aspheric HA-III Mag etc.

  15. #15

    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    BentHeadTX, thats some good feedback, thats for sure!

  16. #16

    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    BentHead, great feedback and thanks everyone also for all the great suggestions!

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    Flashaholic* mossyoak's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    an inova X5 failed becasue of heat? thats insane.
    And Teeming With Souls Shall It Ever Be.
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    Flashaholic* MarNav1's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    I too am suprised at the Inova failing, wonder what happened?

  19. #19

    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Yes, an Inova X5 failing because of heat kinda shocks me too. X5's are some of the toughest lights around. And I know Uncle Sugar is sending them by the truckloads to the sandbox(s). But you can't really argue with BentHeadTX, he's a multiple BTDT.

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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    I thought the G2Ls have a pseudo thermal protection in that it lowers the output when the light is on for a certain period of time to prevent too much heat that would damage the circuit and LED.


    the Inova X5 is a direct drive light. I'm not surprised to hear some cases of failure over time.
    "a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen." -Warren vs District of Columbia, after three women were raped, beaten for 14 hours and police never came after numerous 911 calls were placed

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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    don't forget red filters, and if you decide to bring spare P60 lamps for IR filters.
    Currently own: Inova X5+X1, LP M1 XR-E, Fenix L0D CE, LP LM301, Novatac 120T+17670tube, SF 6PL+E2L XRE+M4+M962, NiteC Def+D10+EzAA
    Used to own: SF L4+ L5+G2+XRE L1, LP M1 XR-E, LP MRV,

  22. #22
    *Flashaholic* Size15's's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    The larger the number of products being sampled, the more likely there is to be failures.

    From my perspective, perhaps access to free replacement CR123A batteries is not as widespread as I thought.

  23. #23

    Wink Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Surefire lights are a great brand but have you considered battery life?
    If your buddy is going to a place with extreme conditions as well as an evironment where the possibility of extended use of a light is needed then I would go with an LED Light. A great website I've found with lot's of selection is:
    www.meregear.com I own a number of Coast LED Lights and two of my favorites are the 7438 Tactical Focus Beam light (83 Lumens) and the 7736 Tactical Power Chip Torch ( 65 Lumens) in comparison to the Surfire lights out of the package these lights have superior battery life, higher lumens, and when you drop them the bulb doesn't burn out. A surfire only last for 1 hr. max if on continuously how many batteries and bulbs will your buddy have to take with him to Iraq? I'd check it out.

    flashlightguru

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    Flashaholic* lightemup's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    IMHO we need to pay more attention to the original question. You mention the words "bright, reliable, durability and Iraq" in your first sentence.

    To me that is all you need to focus on. My short answer, buy a G2L and drive on

    Longer answer:

    He already likes the g2 platform. Buy him a G2l. Two is one, and one is none. He can have one on the vest (or belt etc) and one on the rifle, or one spare. Thus commonality of mounting brackets etc.

    The p60L is AS GOOD if not better than a p60 beam wise. It will have a boatload more runtime though, with my g2 / g2l's being an example. I have batteries that had dimmed the p60 in the g2 to a sickly yellow (time to replace). Threw them in the g2l and i'm still using them at full output. Don't know for how long, but can't be bad can it

    G2l is thermally regulated, so heat really isn't an issue. According to those 'in the know' the g2l will put out 5 or 10 lumens lower than a 6pl on constant on. IMHO the g2 has more going for it in other areas to still trump the 6p on features (easier to hold in the cold, more shock resistant etc, more ding proof etc).

    As far as the other drop ins go, it is a cost benefit analysis of reliability compared to output and battery runtime. I believe you've answered the question yourself. By looking at the words in your first two sentences, and by the conditions in which he is using the light, imho the g2l is the way to go.

    If he has a problem with the g2 or g2l over there, he can still use the other one in the interim. You can bet that Surefire'd look after him. With the aftermarkets he doesn't have a leg to stand on with Surefire, and how the aftermarket manufacturer chooses to resolve the issue is up to how they deal with things...

    Hook him up with a couple of SC1's and two dozen batteries, and he's off to a good start Another handy way to carry batteries is Wal-mart has (or used to) od green waterproof match containers. In Aus they went for $2 each. They perfectly fit two sf123's (with a tiny spacer like a bit of tissue etc), are waterproof and nice and compact.

    Just my 2 cents
    A surefire in the hand is worth two in the bush

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    Flashaholic* lightemup's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    flashlight guru

    I'm not sure where you're getting the higher lumens information from, as well as the battery life claims in comparison to Surefire led's.

    In reference to incandescent reliability my g2z with p61 lamp has been dropped numerous times and it still works perfectly. My maglite 3d (god rest its soul thanks to energizer alkalines leaking in it ) was dropped, bashed and crashed way more times than that and I only had to replace the lamp once. I presume you were referring to incandescents and not Surefire LED's...

    I looked at your website, and the 7438 and 7736 run on 3 alkaline aaa's. I have a dead Eotech and 2 dead maglites that have been killed by energizer alkalines leaking. IMHO Lithiums are a must. Battery availability may be an issue as well in the sandbox, I would expect that aa's and dl123's woul be more easily found and supplied. His existing g2 also uses sf123's...

    There is no spec on the led of the 7438, and the 7736 is said to have a 1.25 watt led. I could be completely wrong, but I didn't know it was possible to achieve 65 lumens out of a 1 watt led. All this is also presuming they have the same build quality, water resistance and testing as what Surefire do...

    Furthermore they are rated at 100 hours runtime, I have yet to see this kind of performance that wasn't at a trickle level of brightness. I've never seen any light that ran for 100 hours. That doesn't say much though, i'm sure they are out there?

    Okay maybe that was more than 2 cents

    Flashlight Guru, I look forward to you engaging my questions / critique of the coast for the intended usage of discohero's buddy.
    Last edited by lightemup; 09-28-2007 at 12:22 PM.
    A surefire in the hand is worth two in the bush

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    Flashaholic* Derek Dean's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    Lightemup, very thoughtful and well expressed posts.

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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    The X5 that failed was used during the day to light up connex shipping containers. Normally, it was hung up at the top of the box were the heat is and run for hours on end. At night, it was hung up inside power generators to provide light when they were worked on. Have no idea the heat the X5 is exposed to inside power generators but it can hit 160+F !! The light had hundreds of hours of use since the guy using it was there on consecutive tours and it showed. He replaced it with another X5 and pressed on. Overdriven 5mm LEDs and heat don't mix.

    That is a reason why I like thermally controlled large die LEDs. Anything can fail under heavy use and scorching heat will do LEDs and batteries in. At least the lithium batteries did not blow!

    The G2 is great except for the battery life. Are there any LED drop-ins that use thermal regulation and can run on an 18650 lithium-ion? Now if I could get a protected 18650 LiFePO4 or two RCR123 sized protected LiFePO4, that would be an awesome light for those conditions.

    Maybe a MagLED 3C with a Newbie resistor mod would be best for extreme heat jobs. Remove the head for a flood light, let the thermal protection protect the LED and load it with alkalines. Since the light pill will be modded anyway, maybe a new K2 would be even better since it can handle more heat and pump out more light.

    Novatach 120, Mag 3C and the G2 for incandescent needs should do it. LEDs are a pain to recommend, the G2 is an easy one.
    Peak Pacific AAA UP brass (EDC) E01 (keys), Peaks, Arcs, Fenix, Q5 Aspheric HA-III Mag etc.

  28. #28

    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    i'm looking at getting a q4 drop in from supertactical. not sure if they're a good dealer, but i'll find out. stated at 200 lumens, but obviousely.. its overstated. we'll see.

  29. #29
    Flashaholic* lightemup's Avatar
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    Default Re: LED Drop-in for Surefire Good Enough for Iraq?

    One last thing that a friend reminded me of, is if he plans to use it with a IR filter he has to use the incandescent bulb. LED's by their nature don't emit IR light unless they are a dedicated IR LED (e.g. Surefire M1).

    I've seen and heard of many standard g2's being used as weaponlights with no dramas. However because the bezel is not shock isolated, for peace of mind i'd recommend a z32 or m2 bezel for that application. On a 5.56 mm it shouldn't be a big deal, but it will reduce the likelihood of lamp failure nonetheless . If you go down this road the M2 bezel does not take the same size filters as the normal 6p / g2 size bezels...
    A surefire in the hand is worth two in the bush

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