Need help choosing EL1 or L1 or P2D!

Hi all, newbie to the current crop of LED lights. I was perfectly happy with the relative warmness & durability of my incandescent 6Z until I lost it. I also understand the 65 lumens of the old 6Z is almost matched by today's very useable Cree 30 lumens EL1, as SureFire underrates their output & has improved their beam/reflector technology.

I want to go with a compact EDC single CR123 cell unit that can take some abuse and rough handling. It will do double duty as a small light source for backcountry usage (occasional throw, with some 3 second bursts for quick trail identification) and will certainly get dropped on rock, wet, probably dunked & be used in occasional sub freezing weather outdoors.

Nothing extreme, so I don't need over-engineering/nuclear fallout resistance.

I browsed here & came up with -

1. SureFire Cree EL1 - simple, no fiddling around, instantly deployed with the instinctive click on/click off button, no brainer 5 hour runtime at 30 lumens + 5 hours at diminished capacity. How diminished, may I ask? A rough lumen rating?

2. SureFire Cree L1 - almost as compact as above, but fiddly twisting and/or two step click level settings. However, interesting two level brightness; how bright/useful is that low 10 lumen setting anyway? I will not be doing much low light work with these flashlights, I use a red LED Photon-2 for that.

When I need to deploy a flashlight fast under duress, I want to do so one handed, and with simple motor movements. Hence my initial consideration of the EL1.

I reckon what it boils down to with the above is 30 lumens for 5 hours (EL1) or 65 lumens for 90 mins. (L1).

Or, in my boiled down reasoning, 150 lumen-hours on high for the EL1, or 98 lumen-hours on high/160 lumen-hours on low for the L1 before I change batteries.

I've heard in the real world there's not much visual difference in the 'brightness' between the EL1 & L1. (not double the luminosity/light output anyhow). True?

3. Lastly, for what I want, how does a Fenix P2D Rebel compare as to the above two SureFires? The high lumen rating over a long runtime seems incredible from such a small light. Is it rated differently? Same fiddly twisting mechanism?

Real world comparisions from folks who've used any or all of the above in the field?

How good are the CR123 batteries that Fenix Store offers as compared to the SureFire or Energizer brands?

Still confused on whether R123 batteries will work on all the above three flashlights.

Thanks, will base my impending purchase this coming week on y'alls input.

Ofelas said:

How good are the CR123 batteries that Fenix Store offers as compared to the SureFire or Energizer brands?

Still confused on whether R123 batteries will work on all the above three flashlights.

Thanks, will base my impending purchase this coming week on y'alls input.

Click to expand...

If you're talking about the CR123A primaries, they ARE Energizer, or at least they were a couple of weeks ago. Myself, I would probably go with the Rebel over the Cree as it seems to have slightly more output and most people seem to prefer the Rebel tint over that of the Cree LEDs.

The switches on the L1 and P2D are very different. The L1 is a twisty with two levels. When the light is off, you can push the button for low while high is locked out, or you can tighten the switch a bit and have low and high at the push of a button. Tightening the switch more gives constant on low with momentary high, tightening all the way gives constant on high. The P2D's switch is a reverse clicky, and you cycle through modes by pressing the switch in for a certain amount of time. Fenix rates their lights with emitter lumens, meaning optical losses have not been taken into account. SureFire rates torch, or "out the front" lumens, and usually underrates their lights slightly. In my opinion, for your use, the E1L would be the best choice.

Here are some observations that I have made. For backcountry use, the fenix rebel tends to be a little too floody. I found myself blinded by the spill light against the nearby brush... so much so that I couldn't see what the spot portion of the beam was focused on. The L1's beam seems to be ideal for taking care of that situation in that the spill is much fainter and there is a large bright spot for recognizing things from a distance. My personal preference leans towards the L1 over the E1L but they are both very nice lights. In addition, I usually don't like using rechargables if I'm out in backcountry... the primary's tend to be more reliable from my experience. All three lights are very nice but my favorite of the three is L1. Happy hunting!

Howdy Ofelas,
I've got to admit, of the three, the L1 would get my vote too, although I'm considering getting an ML1 with a reflector rather than the optic, for a slightly less concentrated beam:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=175864

Also, I've been doing a good bit of night time photography, and I'm beginning to see the wisdom behind using a headlamp, which is what I'm looking into at the moment, and it might be something worth considering in addition to one of the other lights. Having your hands free while navigating the woods, beach, or trails can be a liberating experience.

And I wouldn't feel right if I didn't at least mention the NovaTac EDC 120P, or the slightly less bright, but $40 cheaper 85P series of lights. Versatile, rugged, small, beautiful beam, designed to use primary or rechargeable batteries. Quite nice. My personal EDC at this time.

I have an L1, and a P2D, i absolutely love both of them, but for you im going to say L1. (btw, thanks for telling us what you intend to use it for instead of just asking about 2 flashlights)

I use my P2D every single day, but it lives a fairly easy life, pocket carry, rarely harsh conditions.

When i go camping or hiking, the L1 comes out, it's just a much more rugged light. You can literally beat the snot out of this light and it fires right up.

So of course, i'll recommend buying both, b/c they're both GREAT lights, but for your listed uses, go L1.

Side note...i refuse to buy any more single mode lights, multi stage is just so much more versatile.

I agree with the comment on multistage. Hard to go back to single stage. Once you learn the operating process, even something as complicated as the Fenix P2D is incredibly easy - at least to me.

Moses

I would have to say the SF L1 Cree since it has the selectable output (less or more depending on what you need). The only downside i see to a surefire is that they cost a lot. Other wise go with the surefire, if your wallet doesn't agree go with the Fenix. Although I have heard that the UI on the Fenix is not as easy to learn as the SF UI.

I was kinda skeptical about getting the L1 because of the lumen rating (65 on high) but after checking out the light I was hooked. It seems much brighter than 65 lumens.

The L1 has a nice smooth beam and I like the switch on it. One thing I like about the switch is if you have the light turned on the low position, you can go directly to high just by pressing in the switch the rest of the way. The switch functions well pressing a little for low and more for high or just screw in the switch for constant on. I like that!

The bad thing is that after buying the L1 I now want the E1L!

I used the P2D CE, L1, and E2L. Overall, I vote for the L1. I love the wide hot spot beam (and there is nothing like it) as it was well described by Turt.

The L1 is much a higher quality than the Fenix and the two stages switch is easy to operate than you think. I actually can prime the switch so that I can get the two momentary levels - soft push to low and hard push to high.

The Fenix is brighter then the Surefires but it doesn't have the same build quality (It'll still take abuse with no problem, just it will probably break before the Surefire does). The P2D-Rebel 100 also has more modes but that might be a hassle.

The L1 is more around 70-80 lumen out the front, the Fenix is around 130-140 out the front on turbo. The P2D's 35-40 lumen medium goes for 7.5 hours and turbo lasts for about 50 minutes. P2D's switch works like this, click for on and off. Tap the switch or turn the light on and off with 2 sec to change modes. Tighten the head for turbo(Turbo-Strobe cycle) of slightly loosen the head for gerneral(Low-Medium-High-SOS cycle). Click anywhere in the sequence to turn off and after 2 seconds, the light resets. It's not as complex as it seems.

The Surefires and Fenix should not give you any problem in your described usage but the Surefires are simpler to use.

For Cheaper price($55.20 at Fenix store with 8% off coupon, "CPF8") and max brightness, P2D-Rebel 100

For toughness and easier to use, L1 or E1L

Have you looked at the Novatac offerings?

:welcome:

FWIW, the Surefire two-stage twisty, as employed on the L1 (as well as on the L2, A2 and Kroma) is far from fiddly. The best multiple stage user interface there is, IMO. It's very easy and intuitive. It's the reason why I carry the L1, and not a Fenix.

Thanks all for the fast & thoughtful replies - never expected such a plethora of useful information with such rapidity!

As far as two stage lights go - would I be better off with the A2 Aviator than the L1? Are the Aviators made in a single CR123 version?

Rgds.

There are no single CR123 Aviators.

Thx. Some questions about the Novatac 85/120 -

1. Any info on regulated runtimes?
2. Lumens ratings accurate?
3. How good is that polycarbonate lens?

Seeing as they're the same price, do y'all suggest the S, T or P version for fast deployment & idiot proofed? Using it as a stand up lantern doesn't concern me.

How good is their build quality/customer/warranty service?

My first light was a surefire L2, A 2xCR123 light that produces 15/100 lumens with a tailcap like a SF L1. My brother received a SF E1L(older verson) that same year and both of the lights have seen there share of use and abuse, recently I got my brother a P2D-CE for his birthday and it too is a very cool light. The differences I see are in the UI, quality and purpose, the P2D-CE is very bright but I do not find a need for all those modes and the threads are a little ruff. The E1L has a simple on/off clicky with a very useful light level, it would be a perfect light for camping and most EDC needs. On the down side the E1L gets very hot when on for a long time and the beam has no side spill all throw but all that throw seems to be a plus sometimes like when he shines it in my eyes (really hurts for 25lm). My L2 has seen the most abuse I carried it for two years in a new construction enviroment, it has been droped from various hights onto concrete with a few times being bezel first and it has never had a problem. The dual light levels have been very nice and IMO the switch is more user friendly. Lastly the color rendition of a surefire LED seems to be far better than any other led light I have seen and the threads are much better on a SF. all lights listed are very good and will suite all of you needs but my suggestion to you would be the L1 more light and dual level plus it looks like you need a new surefire.

The lumens are all out the front lumens. The 85s are just a dimmer version of the 120. Same LED except limited to 85 lumen max. The P versions let you program the light levels, down to 0.03 lumen and up to 120 lumens for the 120P. The Polycarbonate lens is AR coated and is also pretty shatter proof. But From what I've heard, the light doesn't throw very far.

Runtimes? Use the search function, there are a few.

Build is bomb proof and customer service seems to be good, so is warranty.

Out the of the three lights:

Fenix is still the brightest and cheapest, with really good circuits(better the Surefire), good quality.

Surefire is simple to use and has good optics with dim side spill, with bombproof quality, but might be the dimmest overall of the bunch, seems to have the most throw.

The Novatac 120P(the one I would pick, out of all the Novatacs), bomb proof, programmable and twice the weight of the P2D.

All three lights should work well for you application, now it's up to you to go for price, simplicity, quality, efficiency, brightness, or ease of use.

Im gonna throw this out there like cpf always does....buy them ALL.

BUT, in this case all 3 of these lights are in decent demand right now, so selling them LNIB on the BST should be very easy.

Ofelas said:

Thx. Some questions about the Novatac 85/120 -

1. Any info on regulated runtimes?
2. Lumens ratings accurate?
3. How good is that polycarbonate lens?

Seeing as they're the same price, do y'all suggest the S, T or P version for fast deployment & idiot proofed? Using it as a stand up lantern doesn't concern me.

How good is their build quality/customer/warranty service?

Click to expand...

I've done several tests of the NovaTac 120P using an RCR123 protected cell. With the light set as it comes from the factory, I got 30 minutes at the Max setting (120 lumens), with flat regulation, then it stepped down 2 levels to 60 lumens and gave me another 30 minutes of flat regulation, and then it began stepping down 2 levels every 3-4 minutes.... for a total runtime of 1.5 hours from Max.

I've read here on CPF that the actual lumens ratings for the 120P on Max is closer to 105-110. I don't have the equipment to measure that accurately. I've found it very close to my Fenix L2D-CE on turbo mode in ceiling bounce tests I've done. The beam on the 120P is quite nice, with a tight, well throwing center spot that blends smoothly into the bright side spill. An excellent all purpose beam.

I like the polycarbonate lens. I EDC my light everyday in a front pocket with change and keys, and yes, the lens has showed a bit of scratching. It doesn't bother me, and doesn't seem to effect the beam quality much, if at all. However, it does bother some folks a lot, and they have spent the $6-7 to buy a new UCL lens from flashlightlens.com (22.8 mm x 1.90 mm).

If you consider getting a NovaTac light, I would highly recommend the 120P model. Yes, the manual is 15 pages, and can be a bit daunting for somebody new to single button programming, but with just a few hours of time spent sitting with the light and the manual, I believe just about anybody can get the hang of programming and using this light. And once you do...... it's actually quite easy to set it up for fast, easy, foolproof operation. The nice thing about the P model is that it can be programmed to work exactly like the T model, or changed at any time.... while the T model is set the way it is, and cannot be changed.

Personally, I like having the ability to decide at which light level I want the light to come on, low, medium, bright, or even disorienting strobe, along with the ability to change that choice as my situation and needs change. I like being able to electronically lock the light out, or not. I have found the .08 lumen light level (the lowest level) to be extraordinarily useful for helping to keep my night adapted vision and aid in setting my camera while doing night time (moonlight) photography. An amazing light.

If you want, you can download the manual first, read it, see if it is something that you think you would be interested in, and ask questions about it before making a commitment. I always do that before making any major purchase. I like to know precisely what I am getting.

On the other hand, I really do like all of the other lights that have been mentioned. They all have their place. Ultimately, the choice is yours, so keep asking questions and reading all the reviews you can find on these marvelous new lights.

Surefire E1L w/beam diffuser, and Arc AAA for backup.