Where are the LED optics at folks?

We love our LED's. We go on and on about bin, tint, and flux. We talk about ar glass coatings, and types of reflectors. Lots of folks love big throw, and the aspherical thing is sweet. I wonder though why more production LED based lights don't use some sort of optic? The Lowes Cree Taskforce has a collomator and is a great thrower for only 30 bucks.....
My whine is about high dollar light companies with a refined look and feel not trying to utilize more than a reflector. I don't get it at all. Didn't the people who made the Cree LED make an optic for it? Why is it not being widely used in cree lights? Maybe I've missed some lights that use different optics? Anyone got examples?

because throw is nice but you need some flood to.

Hmmmmmmmmm, you got me! Very good point.

to be fair i like optic'ed thorwers to, the old L1 was a favorite before the seoul-cree craze, and ive always said that you can diffuse a thrower better than you can focus a flood.

My preference would be if they made a TIR optic that gives a pattern like the reflector, nice strong throw with a good amount of flood also. TIR optics are more efficient and this would boost the output of the light more than moving up a couple of Bins on the LED.

thats an ongoing debate ...

I, for the moment, stick with reflectors.
Have made several lights with optics and reflectors and the reflectors owned the optics by far - brighter hotspot and better useable spill
(must have that pic somewhere: 2 Cree P4 wired in series, wherever the Sandwich Shoppe 19mm reflector sits, that one is way better than the one with the original Cree optic)

yet to come an optic that gives better results than a good reflector (but seems some are in the make)

Optics suck.

JK.

Alright, here are my real reasons why I prefer reflectors over optics for most application. An optic only has a specific angle in which it is effective, whereas a reflector can be tuned for floor or throw AND still have a ~150 degree spill. Therefore while you can shoot a nice narrow beam really far, you still have light outside of the main concentrated beam. And for extremely close range purposes such as working on a car or in a computer case, I find a nice floody reflector much more useful than an optic because the light hits nearly everything in sight.

The ONLY times I would prefer an optic are for walking into a room where people are sleeping (baby's room, or sleepover) in which I don't want to hit them with spill beam.

Another instance is where one has a low output LED and wants to use the beam for middle distances. One great example of this is my Elektrolumens Blaster 1D. For those that aren't familiar with this light, it has a SSC P4 and runs on one D cell, with a runtime of several weeks. It's purpose is for extreme runtime for situations such as power outages therefore output is probably around 40-60 lumens only. However, because it uses an optic, the beam can be use for quite longer distances than one would with reflector and emitter at such low currents.

I believe this is also the reason why the PT EOS headlamp uses an optic, because it isn't that bright, but they still wanted to be able to hit longer distances by capturing the spill and directing it forward (kinda stinks though for hiking since you want spill to light up the entire ground, thank goodness for its moddability!).

Sgt. LED said:

Maybe I've missed some lights that use different optics? Anyone got examples?

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The Rayovac 4W sportsman has an optic and a 7090B Cree star. It's a respectable thrower.


As for "where are the optics"? Here. Buy the ROV, Buy the optics, have fun.

You ask about Cree, yes they have made optics. Here's one of them -

https://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=1603

https://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=1488

I have a couple of these, they perform decent, it's similar to a small smooth reflector in the overall beam, a medium sized hotspot and decent spill. I generally like reflectors better, but if you want a cheap, easy to use, small option, then these do ok. It definitely has a beam more closely resembling a reflector's beam than most optics I've come across, just from looking at the beam you probably wouldn't know it was an optic.

Optics suck.

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x2

I see more optics in the cheapest of cheap lights. They'll put a cheap chinese 5mm LED behind an optic to focus the light. This makes what would be an incredibly dim light seem brighter because the light is concentrated. I've noticed this trick used more and more with the cheap LED lights in B&M stores.

Marduke said:

I see more optics in the cheapest of cheap lights. They'll put a cheap chinese 5mm LED behind an optic to focus the light. This makes what would be an incredibly dim light seem brighter because the light is concentrated. I've noticed this trick used more and more with the cheap LED lights in B&M stores.

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That's what I mean.... if cheapo with optics = ok I want to see premium lights with optics. The 4W Rayo and the lowes TF cree are ok, but I'd like something with better materials and more refinement. Oh well the optics suck point seems to prevail.
Maybe I need to whip up a tri cree that reflects off 3 mirrors down to a single mirror in the middle of the 3 stars projecting the light outward......
Now I need R&D money!

Sgt. LED said:

...Oh well the optics suck point seems to prevail.
...

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As with anything like this, it depends on the application. Maybe for general flashlight use (not surprising in this forum , reflectors are best.

In others, e.g. transportation lighting, optics may be best, though you might not get that impression unless you're talking to folks who use dynamo-powered lighting and typically use 3W halogen lamps that benefit from optics that put the light where you really need it out on the road.

Optics often are VERY picky to adjust!

A few tenths of a millimetre to near to or far from the emitter or out of axis
and the optic won't work properly.

Reflectors are much easier to adjust …


tl

TIR optics CAN be designed to do just about anything, but because there is inherently more material, and the finish is so critical, they can be expensive, unless you get a low quality optic

reflectors are simply cheaper to make and are pretty efficient with regards to overal forward moving light.

the issue is "spot lumens" or FWHM lumens....TIR optics can get more light in this area than a reflector ever can, however, people seem to prefer to have the spill light associated with reflectors

if the spill is critical, then there is no point in maximizing the efficiency since its planned to be "thrown away" (used as spill) anyway

I have worked on a TIR optic that gets over 90% efficiency and nearly 50% in the FWHM, but there is no spill....its pure spot +/- 3 degrees

however, from what I have read over the last few months, people dont want that....so there is no point in spending more money

The market may not be that great but I know several here would be on the purchase list. Continue your efforts please! I can't wait to see it avalible for purchase! I have lot's of options for spill, give us throw!

Thanks Sgt.
Biggest issue is molding costs. Probably would spend $6000 or so to tool up.
I have been working on this for a while and efficiencies are great.
We were exploring using it on some new products but with all the people wanting spill, I tabled it.

If it becomes available, i will let you know.

Thank you very much for that, I'd appreciate it greatly.

well for me optics have come a long way in the last few years and we are seeing some fine examples in the market, especially the Surefire E1L, E2L, and L1.

THose who hate optics perhaps will never appreciate a light that puts out a broad beam of evenly distributed light while using a fraction of power that similar beams would require from reflectors. We also have choices in having a bit of spill in an optic as well, as seen in the SFs. optics often don't offer more throw as much as one would think, but rather increase the useful coverage and thus making hte light much more usable that a reflector that throws a long pencil beam.

I have come to terms with the fact that TIR optics, with different beam characteristics, is not for everyone. I have come to appreciate the advantages of both and hope that one day others will see the usefulness of optics in an objective manner.

one optic we are looking at provides a confined but soft edged beam of about +/- 4 deg for FWHM and +/- 8 deg for full beam....

not much wide angle spill but the spot is highly diffused with no articles and spreads from center intensity to soft falloff well

from Cree XRC at 400mA, it is very similar in center beam intensity to SF E2L with a very soft field

most people who have seen the alpha units commented that the spot is very attractive.....however, the spill is much narrower than a conventional reflector...so we havent moved forward with it