NEWS FLASH: Bush gives up!!

Slick

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[ QUOTE ]
Silviron said:
.....
"I have decided, with a heavy heart, to acquiesce in the profoundly misguided but implacable demands of world opinion and to end our efforts to disarm Iraq and liberate its oppressed people."

<font color="pink"> Not REALLY... I thought this was an interesting article though: </font>
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/nj/taylor2003-03-04.htm

[/ QUOTE ]

What a GREAT article!!! I too am sick of my taxes supporting these "freeloaders". Hopefully more of my fellow American will come to think like this. If the freeloading Europeans think freedom is free, then maybe they should have to pay for it for a change.. Screw the lot of them - I will laugh when they have to beg and grovel for terrorist regimes not to enslave them /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 

DieselDave

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I agree with UnanimousConsent / GunNut. (I never thought I would get to say that and only that) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

BuddTX

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"The Demands of Word Opinion"?

Isn't it like Russa, France and Turkey and Germany that oppose us, and the rest of the UN Nations support us?

If you REALLY want him to follow world opinion, then the clear majority say BOMB IRAQ!
 

Anarchocap

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I really don't want to start a "Should we bomb Iraq?" war thread all over again ad nauseum. But I agree with parts of the article and certainly with what Slick has added above.

Its part of the reason why I don't believe we should be in Iraq. If the Iraqi people can't or won't fight for their freedom, how can they keep it when they don't know the real cost of it?

In my perfect (and admittedly currently non-existent) world, the Iraqi citizens themselves would revolt, take up arms, and ask our country for help. Those people in our country who are interested in helping would voluntarily take their privately owned weapons and get on a plane.

If countries want help or protection using our citizens as soldiers, they should be willing to pay the real cost with their lives, and if successful, with their pocketbook.

I have yet to see a rebel Iraqi leadership that has come to the US with a plan for liberty in their country. We've got a Declaration of Independence (DOI) where basic human rights and freedoms by nature of birth are spelled out. A list of grievances against the King of England were demonstrated. After the war, France was paid for its assistance in gold by our newly formed country.

Why does this not happen with countries coming to us asking help?! A DOI and a promissory note should be the least of what we ask for if our citizens are willing to help with their own blood.

How can you cherish liberty when you don't even understand its ramifications?!
 

DrAg0n

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I just dont get it.

why do people oppose considering war with Iraq if theres no choice? Are they not at least a tinsy winnie little bit afraid that Saddam will cause chaos again?

Does someone close have to die before they see the danger?
 

Anarchocap

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Dragon,
I think its probably fairly non-controversial for me to say that no reasonable human being wants or likes to see people suffer.

There will always be some dictator somewhere that is going to kill, mame, or plunder. Its happening in various other countries around the world as we speak like in Syria, Zimbabwe, North Korea, Lybia, and many more, not just Iraq.

People do die all the time. Life is cruel that way. It is impossible to try and save everyone in the world from how things happen here on Earth. The best we can do is empower citizens of this planet to be able to defend themselves from whatever might come to hurt them.

My issues with Iraq and war in general have to do with the use of force. I am forced to pay for something via taxation, and have no choice to abstain from it. We are going to remove a dictator and force another government with dictator like authority on them. We are going to kill innocent Iraqi citizens just to remove one person from power, and we have already starved and caused other suffering on countless numbers over the past 12 years because of sanctions. How does making the citizens of a country suffer even more do anything else but make them weaker and more miserable?! Certainly, if they couldn't overthrow Saddam before, now they even have less resources if they had any inkling to do so. Even with "Democracy," because of the nature of the region and the people, another dictator will either be voted in or take power once troops leave. Look at the history of Iraq and other countries in the region!! How do you think these goofs got there to begin with? They put a bullet in the previous dictator's brain, as it happened to the leader before, and the leader before, etc.!!

All of this will lead to a waste of time, money, and lives. It all boils down to the people of Iraq, and its neighbors that surround it. They have to know liberty, they have to want it, and they have to be willing to pay for it with their own money and blood.

Freedom isn't free. How will Iraqis know to cherish it when we are willing to give it to them on a silver platter?! Our "solution" is no better than the problem at hand. If the US wants to lead, it should to so by setting an example based on the principles of Liberty, not by foreign policy that actually causes more suffering because its schitzophrenic.

The part that really bothers me is the fact that our own country and its foreign policy created this current mess to begin with. We supported Iraq because it was the lesser of two "evils" compared to Iran, which also had an brutal dictator that was supported by the US called the Shaw, to which the people of Iran chose to remove from power and installed an anti-western government. We made Saddam the "threat" he is today by providing him with wealth and technology or the access to technology and wealth to become the "bad" dictator he is today. Then he wished to reign in the break-a-way provence of Kuwait with his new-found technologies and power, just like China wants to do with Taiwan, we saw the troops massing on the boarder, and our government DIDN'T SAY NO.

For what its worth, you will all be glad to know there is nothing else I can say to help me get my feelings across here. So, stick a fork in me, 'cuz I'm done!
 

DrAg0n

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[ QUOTE ]
UnanimousConsent said:
All of this will lead to a waste of time, money, and lives. It all boils down to the people of Iraq, and its neighbors that surround it. They have to know liberty, they have to want it, and they have to be willing to pay for it with their own money and blood.

Freedom isn't free. How will Iraqis know how to cherish it when we are willing to give it to them on a silver platter?! Our "solution" is no better than the problem at hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

But what if theres no choice?..

If Saddam really has hidden nuclear abilities, he will pose a threat to the whole world....let alone his own people.

What would u say if that is confirmed?
 

Anarchocap

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[ QUOTE ]
DrAg0n said:
But what if theres no choice?..

If Saddam really has hidden nuclear abilities, he will pose a threat to the whole world....let alone his own people.

What would u say if that is confirmed?

[/ QUOTE ]
This has been discussed at great length. I'm not going to rehash it here. Please see:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB22&Number=187476&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB22&Number=186570&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
 

Silviron

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[ QUOTE ]
I am forced to pay for something via taxation, and have no choice to abstain from it

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure you do. There are a few ways:

You could go to that country ... which one is it that doesn't tax its citizens at all.... Hmm, let me think... Oh yeah, Anarchia.

You could stay in the US and just not earn any money, therefore not having to pay income tax. Don't own property or buy and sell goods or services, thereby avoiding property and sales taxes...etc.

Or you could stand up for your beliefs, refuse to pay taxes and sufer the consequences like a man. Who knows, maybe you can convince the judge and jury that "unanimous consent" is the way to solve all the world's problems.

Even if you lost the case, you wouldn't have to worry about your taxes being used for something you don't approve of... You will be in the "enviable" position of having taxpayers paying for your food and housing.
 

Silviron

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[ QUOTE ]
DrAg0n said:
The people of Brunei dont have to pay income tax...

[/ QUOTE ]

SHHH! (I was trying to be somewhat "tongue in cheek" about that- I know that there are a few countries without income or sales taxes)
 

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