Novatac 120P poor run-time?

mega_lumens · Oct 12, 2007

I was interested to by the new EDC 120P but is the run time really only 30-40 mins on high? Isn't that too short? I can't decide now because I don't like the run time if it's only 30 mins on high, but the functionality of this light is the best option you can get from a single light.

Also can you mod the 120P for brighter LED options in the future?...

MikeLip · Oct 12, 2007

You might want to consider two things;

The amount of light that little guy is putting out and the small size of the battery! A CR123 can discharge like nobodys business, but it really doesn't contain all that much energy when it comes right down to it -about what a good alkaline AA does. It can just dump it a lot faster. So that power level for that runtime really isn't awful, and it will run for a very long time on lower levels which is probably what will be mostly used.

Norm · Oct 12, 2007

What you need to consider is how often you will run it on high for 40 mins? runtime on lower settings will be much longer.
Norm

thermal guy · Oct 12, 2007

get the 120. very few people get this light for it's max power Level. you can program it down to 85lm for over 1 hr or 60lm for 3hrs .

berto · Oct 12, 2007

I wondered the same thing the pd3 is putting out more lumes on turbo mode and lasts for 1.8 hours with two batteries the novatac lasts for 30 minutes on 1 battery shouldn't it last for close to 1 hour.

luminata · Oct 12, 2007

I think the P3D is overrated on output. And also 2 CR123s running in tandem dont have to work as hard to put out that kind of lumens as compared to 1 CR123 on its own working alot harder to keep it up . 3volts versus 6volts. its about the same runtime as the D-mini , another single cell which used the Cree led instead.

Kiessling · Oct 12, 2007

There is only so much that can be done with 1 x CR123 and the current generation of LEDs. This is true for the Novatac as well as for Fenix and DX lights.
It isn't the simple energy conversion that is interesting with the Novatac though. A good light is so much more than simple lumens per runtime.
bernie

P.S.: besides ... those are fantastic performance values! My beloved SF U2 has approx. the same runtime and luminous flux ... on 2 x CR123

Derek Dean · Oct 12, 2007

mega_lumens said:
I was interested to by the new EDC 120P but is the run time really only 30-40 mins on high? Isn't that too short? I can't decide now because I don't like the run time if it's only 30 mins on high, but the functionality of this light is the best option you can get from a single light.

Also can you mod the 120P for brighter LED options in the future?...

I think what a lot of folks don't realize when they are looking at the runtime for the NovaTac 120P, is that it uses an unusual battery conservation scheme that automatically dims the light when the battery output begins to get low.

My tests have shown the following: Using a freshly charged Battery Station protected RCR123 battery, and with the light set to Max output (120 lumens), I got 30 minutes in full regulation, at which point the light dimmed 2 levels to 60 lumens.

I then got another 30 minutes in full regulation at 60 lumens, at which point the light began dimming 2 levels every 3-4 minutes (sometimes as long 6-8 minutes) for an additional 30 minutes of usable light.... for a total of 1.5 hours of very usable light, with 1 hour of that time being in full regulation at 60 lumens or above.

BTW, I know of at least one person who has already upgraded the NovaTac's LED, so it is indeed possible, and having a 120 model, you will be assured of having the highest drive level available if you ever decide to do that upgrade. Personally, I wouldn't want to loose the lovely .08 lumen low level that I find my self using so often. It's perfect for providing that tiny bit of light that is sometimes all I need, while keeping my night adapted vision in tact. Happy hunting.

berto · Oct 12, 2007

Ok I still think 1 cell should last 1 hour look at the p2d it has a 1 hour runtime on turbo. Two cells shouldn't give it 4 times the run time.

mega_lumens · Oct 12, 2007

thermal guy said:
get the 120. very few people get this light for it's max power Level. you can program it down to 85lm for over 1 hr or 60lm for 3hrs .

85lm for an hour is very good, I didn't consider that. Can this light be moded later on for brighter LED's?

thanks

GarageBoy · Oct 12, 2007

When the NT drops out of high, it doesn't go dead, rather, it drops a power level to conserve what's left.

mightysparrow · Oct 13, 2007

Please also keep in mind that you will get much longer runtimes with a primary (non-rechargeable) battery.

NA8 · Oct 13, 2007

Derek Dean said:
... it uses an unusual battery conservation scheme that automatically dims the light when the battery output begins to get low.

Considering how they went out of their way to make the Novatac very programmable, you wonder why they didn't make their automatic transmission lighting system user selectable. I wouldn't mind it as a option, but being forced to use it is just silly.

Derek Dean · Oct 13, 2007

NA8 said:
Considering how they went out of their way to make the Novatac very programmable, you wonder why they didn't make their automatic transmission lighting system user selectable. I wouldn't mind it as a option, but being forced to use it is just silly.

Well, while I personally don't think it's silly..... I do agree that I would like to see an option available for turning the automatic dimming system on/off.

In fact, I might even take it a step further. My understanding is that the system is designed to detect a specific voltage, and that triggers the light to begin dimming. I would think that for those of us who wanted that much control, it would be neat to be able to set the threshold at which the dimming is triggered, in addition to being able to disable the automatic system all together.

That way, by doing some testing, you could set the light so that it would begin dimming just a short time before the protection circuit kicks in on your particular RCR123 battery.

robo21 · Oct 13, 2007

Derek Dean said:
I think what a lot of folks don't realize when they are looking at the runtime for the NovaTac 120P, is that it uses an unusual battery conservation scheme that automatically dims the light when the battery output begins to get low.

My tests have shown the following: Using a freshly charged Battery Station protected RCR123 battery, and with the light set to Max output (120 lumens), I got 30 minutes in full regulation, at which point the light dimmed 2 levels to 60 lumens.

I then got another 30 minutes in full regulation at 60 lumens, at which point the light began dimming 2 levels every 3-4 minutes (sometimes as long 6-8 minutes) for an additional 30 minutes of usable light.... for a total of 1.5 hours of very usable light, with 1 hour of that time being in full regulation at 60 lumens or above.

BTW, I know of at least one person who has already upgraded the NovaTac's LED, so it is indeed possible, and having a 120 model, you will be assured of having the highest drive level available if you ever decide to do that upgrade. Personally, I wouldn't want to loose the lovely .08 lumen low level that I find my self using so often. It's perfect for providing that tiny bit of light that is sometimes all I need, while keeping my night adapted vision in tact. Happy hunting.

Have you done any runtime testing with a fresh primary? I'm curious how much more runtime is available.

Derek Dean · Oct 13, 2007

robo21 said:
Have you done any runtime testing with a fresh primary? I'm curious how much more runtime is available.

Howdy robo21,
No, I haven't done any personal tests using a fresh primary, but you can check out this fine review site which has several run time graphs comparing both an RCR123 and a primary CR123:

http://www.light-reviews.com/novatac_120p/review.html

I would guess that his results for the RCR123 battery were done with the light set using the battery-detect reset described in the manual, but I've found that I get much better results using my protected RCR123 batteries with the light set for primary batteries. Instead of that sharp drop off he shows after 30 minutes, I get an addtional 30 minutes at 60 lumens, and then 30 minutes of gradual step downs, for a total of 1.5 hours using a rechargeable with the light set to Max output.

robo21 · Oct 13, 2007

Derek Dean said:
Howdy robo21,
No, I haven't done any personal tests using a fresh primary, but you can check out this fine review site which has several run time graphs comparing both an RCR123 and a primary CR123:

http://www.light-reviews.com/novatac_120p/review.html

I would guess that his results for the RCR123 battery were done with the light set using the battery-detect reset described in the manual, but I've found that I get much better results using my protected RCR123 batteries with the light set for primary batteries. Instead of that sharp drop off he shows after 30 minutes, I get an addtional 30 minutes at 60 lumens, and then 30 minutes of gradual step downs, for a total of 1.5 hours using a rechargeable with the light set to Max output.

Thanks, I have read that review. RCR 123's definitely work better when used as you describe. Then post #12 above is incorrect? Primaries do not offer more runtime than rechargeables in the 120P.

thermal guy · Oct 13, 2007

not sure it's a good idea to run rechargeable without doing a reset wont that make the light think it has a primary in it and allow it to drain that battery? not good with rechargeable. i know that the flashlight has a safety to let you know when this is happing but it doesn't shut the light off. you must turn your lite off yourself to save the battery

NA8 · Oct 13, 2007

Derek Dean said:
I would think that for those of us who wanted that much control, it would be neat to be able to set the threshold at which the dimming is triggered, in addition to being able to disable the automatic system all together.

That way, by doing some testing, you could set the light so that it would begin dimming just a short time before the protection circuit kicks in on your particular RCR123 battery.

That would be a nice upgrade.

Derek Dean · Oct 13, 2007

Robo21...hmmmm.... well, I believe you will still get the most runtime using primaries, as I'm pretty sure they generally have about 1/3 more juice to start with than rechargeables.

Thermal guy, concerning the battery-detect...... I could be completely wrong in this, but my understanding is that all the battery-detect reset does is change the threshold voltage at which the light will begin dimming, mainly to provide protection for unprotected rechargeable cells.

Since I'm using protected cells, my thought was that the cell's own protection circuit would kick in before any damage was done. Oddly enough, even with the light set for a primary battery (thru a factory reset), I never was able to get the cell's protection circuit to kick in, and the battery still read just above 3.0 volts at the end of the level dropping process.

I e-mailed NovaTac about all this, and didn't get the feeling from the e-mail I got back that I was doing anything wrong. So, since I've been able to increase my runtime with rechargeable cells dramatically by doing this, it's been my standard operating procedure for several weeks now, with no ill effects either for my batteries (at least that I can observe), or to the light. YMMV.

Novatac 120P poor run-time?

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