Self-defense lights

When I get some money (i.e. not immediately) I plan on buying a light that can save my *** should I encounter someone who's in the mood for a fight, since my muscles alone probably can't
The idea is to have something that can make them temporarily blind in pretty much any situation, including full daylight.
It obviously needs to be portable, so no backpacks and such

I've known for a while about the Surefire M6 which, with the 500 lumen lamp, seems adequate to the task, but are there any alternatives? Hopefully a bit less expensive, and maybe even with a slimmer head?

Thanks

Well I have a few suggestions that come to mind,none are 500 lumen though. Im pretty sure there is a cree drop in of like 170 lumens for the 6p defender. Its not 500 lumens but light will only old someone off for so long(even 500 lumens) and when that time is up, at least the defender has teeth.Hope I helped :thumbsup:

While I like LEDs much more than incandescents, I'm not sure they're at aggressor-dazzling levels yet, or at least not at anything but very short ranges.
If I understand correctly, if I shined the M6 with the high power lamp at someone relatively close, they'd see nothing but purple spots for the next few minutes. Hard to hit someone when you can't see them...

^ +1 on the 170 lumen drop in for the WE Defender. I can speak from personal experience that you have about 5 seconds to react after you light them up in the face.

With the WE Defender you also get the nice Edged Bezel if things get to close for comfort.

If someone has the intent to really hurt you, no flashlight short of a 6D Mag to the side of the head is going to help. Don't coun't on any amount of lumens to save you.

Fallingwater said:

...something that can make them temporarily blind in pretty much any situation, including full daylight. ...

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You won't find a light that will help you as you intend in full daylight. The much hyped "blind your opponent" principle is based upon the potential reaction of people when they're in complete darkness. In the best of cases, it's a momentary effect, and you'd better be executing plans B and C immediately.

You'll need a lot more than a flashlight (day or night) to defend yourself from a determined attacker.

Do yourself a favor and replace "save my ***" with "buy me a third of a second which I will use to ______ [insert action here -- probably/ideally run the hell away]". A flashlight is not a weapon, and it won't stop someone who is intent on attacking you for more than a second, if that long. The idea is to have the benefit of surprise COMBINED WITH A PLAN FOR ACTION (i.e., run). Don't expect to shine a bright light at someone and have them flip onto their back in agony howling "my eyes!" The basic idea is to flash the light on, then off, while moving. You are hoping to take advantage of the brief dark following the light to get out of the way of danger. Good luck never having to test it out!

^ bingo! but you would be surprised at just how effective blinding someone is.

make them temporarily blind in pretty much any situation, including full daylight.

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uh, if you guys have the same sunlight we have in California, this is one helluva thing to ask.

where do you people get the idea that a light can save you from harm? this topic comes up every other day.

^ because i use a bright flashlight to disorient and size up the Thieving Druggy Misfits everyday (night). They are so distracted trying to avoid the light it gives me time to move in with my partner and apprehend them or release the dog.
Its an element of surprise. They are NOT expecting a wall of blinding light, they simply cannot see anything, they close their eyes, or they duck or they turn, giving me or the other security staff a perfect opportunity to take control of their arms.

Lights are not great defensive weapons in themselves. Attached to a gun...or even a taser or baton, they do help illuminate and occasionally disorient a adversary.

My pick of defensive lights (not attached to guns) #1 would be an Inova T5. I would pick it because it will illuminate a person decently well at just a few yards, is very heavy for its size and has a hard round end...with no soft rubber switch to soften a blow. It is also not as big as a maglight and you will not have a prosecuting attorney in court simply remove the head and tail of it and hand the jury a 15" pipe...which means you were involved in an assault with a deadly weapon.

If you want a good defensive light and do not have a concealed cary permit...buy one attached to a taser. Even if they are illeagel to cary in your area...the penalties are far less than being caught with a gun and no cary permit. Also from someone who used to obsess about this stuff...the odds you will be attacked are incredibly slim...and if you are...there are far better improvised weapons than flashlights.

^ got many meth heads in your area? we have about 3000 in the Lower mainland of BC, 99% of them commit property crime to the tune of abotu $2000 in stolen good a day per addict, I live on the fringe of the east side where its worst. . Their eyes are very sensitive to bright light, i use that to my advantage.

Bushman5 said:

^ because i use a bright flashlight to disorient and size up the Thieving Druggy Misfits everyday (night). They are so distracted trying to avoid the light it gives me time to move in with my partner and apprehend them or release the dog.
Its an element of surprise. They are NOT expecting a wall of blinding light, they simply cannot see anything, they close their eyes, or they duck or they turn, giving me or the other security staff a perfect opportunity to take control of their arms.

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that's great.

but most of these posters are one single person walking down the street with no dogs or self-defense tools to back up the light. THey seem to perceive a light as some sort of magic substitute for necessary tools and help from others. and to top it off this time, in this case, in broad daylight

it's a little different than what you are describing. just a little bit perhaps...

^ got many meth heads in your area? we have about 3000 in the Lower mainland of BC, 99% of them commit property crime to the tune of abotu $2000 in stolen good a day per addict, I live on the fringe of the east side where its worst. . Their eyes are very sensitive to bright light, i use that to my advantage.

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you've never had a drunk 350 lb urban male charge at you, have you? (I have) skinny methheads wacked out on meth is one thing, there are more issues in the world than those weakened sacks of human garbage.

As people have said, a flashlight can not be relied about solely for self defense.

And as other people have said, a flashlight can blind someone for a few seconds, especially if they are not expecting it.

Finding a light that will blind someone in broad daylight is not going to happen. Unless it's a HID light, most lights won't even cause someone to look away. Even if it does, they aren't going to be blinded.

Get a Fenix, Surefire, Streamlight, Pelican, ect. All make small lights that are bright enough to mess with a person at night. All are decent enough quality and all are good brands in general.

If you are serious about self defense, consider carrying a small thing of OC or Mace, get a concealed weapons license or take up Judo (requires a decent commitment).

If your neighborhood is so bad, you can't walk down the street at night without feeling safe...consider moving.

Fallingwater said:

When I get some money (i.e. not immediately) I plan on buying a light that can save my *** should I encounter someone who's in the mood for a fight, since my muscles alone probably can't
The idea is to have something that can make them temporarily blind in pretty much any situation, including full daylight.
It obviously needs to be portable, so no backpacks and such

I've known for a while about the Surefire M6 which, with the 500 lumen lamp, seems adequate to the task, but are there any alternatives? Hopefully a bit less expensive, and maybe even with a slimmer head?

Thanks

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I think that you're putting to much faith into the scenario of stopping some kind of aggression with bright light. The light is really only one part of you defensive spectrum starting with your sense of self-awareness. In a darkened urban area with typical ambient artificial light, a good blast from a 100 lumen plus light will probably buy you 2 or 3 seconds that you wouldn't have had otherwise to decide whether you're going to take flight or fight. When they're close enough to effectively blast with the light you're splitting hairs with having the wrong tool in your hand. At that point pepper spray, knife, or firearm might be a better choice depending on how deteriorated the situation has become. The flashlight is much better as a tool of deterrent than it is a "defensive" tool. Lighting up suspicious activity from a distance or lighting up a side alley when walking past, just as a precaution, makes a pondering criminal mind feel targeted by somebody's awareness and often discourages a non-determined thug from doing was he was thinking about doing.

As far as specific lights go, lumen for lumen the LEDs seem to be harder on the eye than incandescent lights. I believe the reason for this is the perceived 'instant-on' effect associated with LEDs. Incan bulbs sort of 'ramp-up' in brightness even if it's only a 1/10 of a second. The LED is at full power in a micro second. It's probably not necessary to obsess (just my verbiage, not saying you're obsessing) over multi-hundred lumen lights. It seems that today all the new 'tactical carry' lights are 120 plus lumens and a big jump up in lumens isn't necessarily going to buy you more time. More importantly is how close the light was to the eye or how large the emittive area of the light is in relation to the eye. An L4 from two feet away is going to be worse than a P3DQ5 from 6 feet. The closer light, the larger the blind spot that is temporarily imprinted on the retina. It's more important to have something that you'll be able to carry at all times. It's unlikely that you'd be carrying your M6 on the elevator or at the movies for instance. For me the upper size limit is a 3x123 light but I'm most comfortable with a 2x123.

If you have a shooting club or range around your area you'd probably enjoy taking some defensive classes taught by instructors who understand the use of 'tactical' light usage as one of the tools. If you're willing to travel there are many schools that teach these techniques.

EDIT:
I just noticed that you were in Italy so the firearms and shooting clubs probably don't apply. Still, the flashlight is a great deterrent from a distance and can help if you get a face to face scrap with somebody.

souptree said:

Do yourself a favor and replace "save my ***" with "buy me a third of a second which I will use to ______ [insert action here -- probably/ideally run the hell away]". A flashlight is not a weapon, and it won't stop someone who is intent on attacking you for more than a second, if that long. The idea is to have the benefit of surprise COMBINED WITH A PLAN FOR ACTION (i.e., run)

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Well, that was of course the original plan - I'm sure as hell not sticking around to see what happens after I flash someone.

270winchester said:

where do you people get the idea that a light can save you from harm? this topic comes up every other day.

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I imagine I gave that idea, yes, but that's not what I meant. Of course I'm not expecting to flash someone and then be able to calmly stroll around them and walk off as they are writhing in fetal position.

As for the daylight thing, I could swear someone said just that on this board sometime in the past, and that's what gave me the idea. I am obviously not well informed on the power of incandescents...

How about if we replace "day and night" with just "night"? That is, after all, when most aggressions occur. If a quick flash from a reasonably bright light can give me a second or two, a flash from a 500 lumen one should give me a bit more time, right? And it'd probably make it more helpful if the area is illuminated by other artificial lights.

Edit: Patriot36, I missed your post. That pretty much answers my question.

Firearms are out of the question. Italian laws don't allow anyone to carry a firearm around unless they have very good reason to do so; even just owning one requires a stupid amount of paperwork, and if you ever USE it the resulting investigation can take years.
Ditto for knives and tasers.

I have a pepper spray (which has only become legal to own a few years ago... yeah, we ain't a very smart country), but I'm unconvinced on its usefulness in a bad situation. Besides, if there's more than one aggressor and all you have is pepper spray you're boned anyway, let alone if they're all hyped up on drugs and would thus shrug off pepper spray with little trouble.

What you need, is something like this:




The M6 is nice. Or a MagCharger. Powerful and heavy.

Tiger light with pepper spray? I read some good things about the Tiger light which has a system where you can use the Pepper spray at the same time as you shine your light. I think there is a current review of it somewhere on CPF.

Two things to consider though. 1] Is pepper spray illegal in your area?
2] This is not good if there is a strong wind blowing your direction.
Not trying to be facetious. Very often people are in such a state of panic with a perp charging down on them that they don't necessarily stop to think which way the wind is blowing.

hehe, i remember fondly when the instructor put us in a sealed tent, turned on a fan and told us to pepper spray him. :thumbsdow after we had regained out sight and lungs, he said, dont forget this lesson when your in the field, it will save your life. :twothumbs