Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage (14500/3AA ADDED): RUNTIMES, pics!

selfbuilt

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UPDATE 11/27/07: I'm sorry to say, I can no longer recommend this light. Based on the responses in this thread, it seems DX is now shipping completely different lights under the same name. Not only is build quality varying widely, but so is output and runtime. One user even reports receiving a C3 light with the old inefficient 5-stage circuit! At this point in time, it seems to be a complete lottery what you are in for. :thumbsdow


This thread is a quick comparison of the new multi-stage Ultrafire C3 compared to the previous single-stage version

For a comparison review of the higher-end 1AA lights, please see my new:
Multi-stage 1AA Review - Part III: Runtimes, beamshots & more!


The contenders:

From left to right: Single-stage C3, 2AA extension tubes, Multi-stage C3
C3-1.jpg


As you will notice, the new multi-stage C3 is a little taller, and the tailcap switch is now recessed allowing tailstanding. The new 2AA extension tube is slightly shorter than the previous one, but still fits on both models (screw threads and diameters are the same on both lights).

Beamshots:

In 1AA format, on Hi with Sanyo 2500mAh NiMH, as my Duracell 2650mAh wouldn't fit.

C3-2.jpg

C3-3.jpg


Method: All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, a la Quickbeam's FR.com method. My relative overall output numbers are typically similar to his, although generally a little lower. You can directly compare all my review graphs - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another.

Throw values are the square-root of lux measurements taken at 1m using a light meter.

Summary Chart for 2500mAh NiMH

C3-Summary.gif


Runtimes:

For runtimes, I've added the new Jetbeam C-LE v2.0 for comparison purposes, as its features and circuit design seem similar to this light.

"Hi" mode on NiMH (Sanyo 2500mAh)
C3-NiMH.gif


Hi/Med/Lo modes on Alkaline Duracells
C3-Hi.gif

C3-Med.gif


2AA Hi mode on 2500mAh NiMH
C3-2AA.gif


14500 (AW Protected) on Fenix L1T body tube (C3 tube too narrow for protected cells)
Note: 14500 is not recommended in this light, as you may fry your emitter or circuit due to the high output
C3-14500.gif


3AA Hi mode on 2500mAh NiMH
Note: I do NOT recommend you try this, as it requires additional conductive spacers to allow the batteries to make contact when using 2 extension tubes. As you'll see, output is similar to 14500, but with much longer runtime. Frankly, I expect you are at even greater risk of destroying your light this way
C3-3AA.gif


General observations:

PWM: The new C3 uses PWM for lower modes, measured at a respectable 297Hz, which is not noticeable to me in everyday use.
Memory: The new C3 lacks a dedicated memory mode of last setting used, instead the light cycles through settings in the following initial sequence: Med - Lo - Hi - Strobe (7.3Hz) - SOS, repeating. However, once the light has been off for ~3.5 mins, it resets to the original initial sequence (i.e. comes on Med and cycles from there).
Interface: You can soft-press or click on/off to change modes (or, for that matter, simply twist head on-off to cycle). Light remembers last mode and moves to next mode any time the current flow is interupted and restored. Switch is difficult to soft-press given its recessed nature and poor tactile feel (see below for a discussion), but it doesn't matter much since clicking works as well as soft-pressing to advance the state.

C3-4.jpg


Single-stage C3 on top, multi-stage C3 on bottom:
C3-5.jpg


Build Quality

Unfortunately, build quality has decreased noticeably from the single-stage version is many ways.
  • As you can see in above pics, anodizing arrived chipped on the face near the CREE logo. Anodizing is more matte finish and seems less substantial than original single-stage.
  • Machining seems a lot rougher, and you'll notice that the flat areas for the logos are somewhat irregularly shaped. Knurling on the body is far less agressive, and is barely raised in places.
  • Lettering and logos are poorly imprinted compared to the original C3.
  • The tailcap on mine arrived defective, causing the light to flicker on all modes. A replacement is en route, but in the meantime I used the superior clicky that came on the single-stage C3 for all runtime tests. The new recessed switch allows tailstanding, but is actually harder to activate (and much easier to soft-press on the old clicky as well).

Output
  • The original single-stage C3 gave identical output in 1AA/2AA/14500 modes, with improved regulation and runtime improved on 2AA.
  • New multi-stage C3 on Hi is considerably dimmer than the single-stage on 1AA, but noticeably brighter in 2AA modes (which is most welcome). Hi mode on 14500 is very impressive - among the highest output I've seen
  • Medium and Lo modes are actually set to appropriate relative levels (I would estimate 40% > 10% > 100% sequence), unlike many of inexpensive 5-mode circuits DX/Kai sell where the Lo is still too high.
  • Interestingly, on 14500 the single-stage C3 runs longer and at a higher output level than the C3 multi-stage on Med.
  • Although the multi-stage C3 output on 1AA is lower than the Jetbeam C-LE by ~20% or so, the increased runtimes are very impressive.

Conclusion:
  • A significant upgrade to the Ultrafire C3 head, with 1AA performance that approaches the higher-end JetBeam C-LE (minus the last state used memory), although fans of the high output of the single-stage C3 will be disappointed by the 1AA output.
  • Ability to run 2AA for greater output is welcome.
  • Output on Hi on 14500 or 3AA (with 2 extension tubes and a battery magnet for contact) is insanely bright (note: my protected 14500s won't fit in the C3 body tube, needed to use L1T body). Long-term stability on 14500 or 3AA is unknown, but there is concern you will blow your circuit or emitter if you try this - buyer beware!
  • Build quality has decreased in several ways, but is probably still minimally acceptable for many users, assuming tailcap switch is functioning properly.
  • A good upgrade for existing C3 users looking to replace the head with a multi-mode circuit.
  • The poor man's C-LE?

Cheers! :wave:
 
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bessiebenny

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

Great review as always. =)

They have significantly increased the running time in favour of the output in single AA it seems. Well, I guess for some, this is a great plus. But you do lose the extra long running times of the older single mode C3 when using 2 x AA batteries. Win some, lose some eh. hehe. At the end, single mode version still sounds better in my books.
 

selfbuilt

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

But you do lose the extra long running times of the older single mode C3 when using 2 x AA batteries. Win some, lose some eh. hehe. At the end, single mode version still sounds better in my books.
Very true - FYI, I just updated the main post with a graph of the 2AA mode. It certainly doesn't look like the best trade-off, given the rock-solid regulation the single-stage had on 2AA.

Still, I think this multi-stage light is certainly more versatile now for most people. But those looking for a single super-bright 1AA (or long-lasting medium-bright 2AA) will need to look elsewhere (or stick with the original ;)).
 

kenzo

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

Hey :0 ive been here for a while but this is my fist post.

Um..looking at your table the 5mode C3 with 2xAA has huge output and throw (even higher than the ones you reviewed in the Multi-State 1AA review). Does that mean that this C3 is substantially (or visibly) brighter than those?
Also...would it be possible to get comparison shots of 2xAA vs 1xAA vs old c3?

I'm still waiting for my 5mode C3 which was ordered on the 10th :\.

I think i'll be using this C3 as a 2x AA and getting another one for 1x AA use...
Would you recommend the MTE rebel0100 or.. MTE SSC? or any other cheap (<$20) 1x AA light?
haha...oh and btw... since the MTE rebel has a plastic reflector... would this fit instead?
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3317

(yes...i'm new to led flashlights)
 
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Marduke

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

Thanks, this seals the deal for me.
Off the buy the old single stage one.... :twothumbs
 

bessiebenny

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

I think i'll be using this C3 as a 2x AA and getting another one for 1x AA use...
Would you recommend the MTE rebel0100 or.. MTE SSC? or any other cheap (<$20) 1x AA light?
haha...oh and btw... since the MTE rebel has a plastic reflector... would this fit instead?
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3317

(yes...i'm new to led flashlights)

For 1 x AA use, MTE Rebel100 is significantly brighter than the MTE SSC. (I have MTE Rebel/SSC/C3)
But MTE SSC does have a cleaner/smoother beam which can be a plus for close up work.

fyi - if you invest some dosh on CR123A batteries and charger, you will be able to get MUCH brighter lights which are not any bigger.
It is as little as $5 for 2 x CR123A rechargeables and $5 for charger. (But I guess not everyone just looks for "bright" lights, so it's up to u)

BTW, all MTE lights have head glued on at the thread. It's not very easy to take off and can damage it trying.
Also, you won't get that much difference by going to aluminium on that light. So it probably won't be worth it imo.

Check my budget round-up review thread in this forum for the current range of "best" budget lights to get. (not as technical as selfbuilt's =P)
 
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kenzo

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

Oh yeah, seeing as supplying it with 3.0volts increases brightness, would a 14500 also work on this AND make it brighter? (or will it just burn it).
 

nerdgineer

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

I just got 2 of the single stage C3's, and your results make me pretty happy that I opted for the 1 stage.

Can you double check your curves? Is the runtime curve of the 1AA single stage light about the SAME (i.e. very flat) with an alkaline as with a NIMH - which is what your curve shows? If this is so, this would be STUNNING to me - it means the inexpensive single stage C3 beats just about any other 1AA light made for regulated alkaline battery performance. I'd probably go get more.

BTW, mine C3s had contact issues when using the 2xAA tube. Basically the end of the extension tube was too short to contact the switch properly. I fixed this pretty easily by inserting a ring of paper clip wire into the tailcap to bridge the gap so now it works fine, but it did require a fix...

Once fixed, both are great lights.
 

ergotelis

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

I got mine a week ago and i use it with another 1xaa Adaptor from the 1st generation C3 and i have a C3 3xAA multimode! :twothumbs
You will have to use progold and some teflon tape to make sure that tubes connect each other fine.
With 3xAA it is brighter than 2xAA! :thumbsup:
 

kenzo

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

so it can take 4.5 volts :0
hmm..i might consider investing in 14500s then @"@
does anyone know if protected ones fit? or do i have to use unprotected?
 

ergotelis

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

so it can take 4.5 volts :0
hmm..i might consider investing in 14500s then @"@
does anyone know if protected ones fit? or do i have to use unprotected?

Well wait, i didn't used 3xAA alcalines but 3xaa nimh freshly charged batteries. Total about 4,2V max. I don't know if it can take more, but on 3 nimh it is a great choice!
 

selfbuilt

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

looking at your table the 5mode C3 with 2xAA has huge output and throw (even higher than the ones you reviewed in the Multi-State 1AA review). Does that mean that this C3 is substantially (or visibly) brighter than those?
Yes, my output and throw scales are the same on all reviews, so the 2AA version the multi-mode C3 is brighter than any of the 1AA lights I've reviewed. Note that it is still not as bright as the Cree/Rebel Fenix 2AA lights (nor as well efficient in terms of output/runtime).

Would you recommend the MTE rebel0100 or.. MTE SSC? or any other cheap (<$20) 1x AA light? haha...oh and btw... since the MTE rebel has a plastic reflector... would this fit instead?
As bessiebenny pointed out, the MTE heads are all glued, so IMO you are better sticking with the C3. I don't have the MTE SSC, but my MTE R100 is not as bright as my MTE Cree (which is surprising, since I suspect my MTE Cree is only a P4). Plus my MTE R100 has a pretty hideous beam and huge tint shifts on various modes. Output/runtimes are given in my main 1AA review thread: Rebel, Cree, SSC Multi-Stage 1AA Review: RUNTIMES and BEAMSHOTS
I'll update that thread with these numbers soon ...

Can you double check your curves? Is the runtime curve of the 1AA single stage light about the SAME (i.e. very flat) with an alkaline as with a NIMH - which is what your curve shows?
Ooops - my bad - that was indeed the NIMH curve shown on Hi alkaline. Just fixed it with the right curve, and as you will see performance on alkaline is not so hot on the single-stage C3. Sorry about that!

BTW, mine C3s had contact issues when using the 2xAA tube. Basically the end of the extension tube was too short to contact the switch properly. I fixed this pretty easily by inserting a ring of paper clip wire into the tailcap to bridge the gap so now it works fine, but it did require a fix...
Your point about contact issue is well taken - although mine works as is, I can see tolerances are such that many may need to modify either the head or tailcap. A copper or aluminum ring works well (never tried a paper clip before), although you might also be able to get by by slightly unscrewing the tail switch retaining ring. As always, YMMV ....

Well wait, i didn't used 3xAA alcalines but 3xaa nimh freshly charged batteries. Total about 4,2V max. I don't know if it can take more, but on 3 nimh it is a great choice!
Interesting - I know the single-stage can take 14500, but there was no mention of it on the multi-stage description, so I was hesitant to try it. Your results would seem to suggest that 14500 should be doable, based on voltage range - but no guarantees it would be stable or not potentially fry the circuit. Given that this light outputs more at higher voltage, I would be worried about heatsinking and stability on 14500.
 
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ergotelis

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

Interesting - I know the single-stage can take 14500, but there was no mention of it on the multi-stage description, so I was hesitant to try it. Your results would seem to suggest that 14500 should be doable, based on voltage range - but no guarantees it would be stable or not potentially fry the circuit. Given that this light outputs more at higher voltage, I would be worried about heatsinking and stability on 14500.

I have already used the flashlight with 3xAA for over 3 hours each of the last 2 days. It is very practical and long lasting. No heat problems(it gets hot but not that much, just hot like most flashlights) and circuit works flowlessly. If i get a fail in use i will inform you. But till now still going with no problems! :twothumbs
 

selfbuilt

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

I have already used the flashlight with 3xAA for over 3 hours each of the last 2 days. It is very practical and long lasting. No heat problems(it gets hot but not that much, just hot like most flashlights) and circuit works flowlessly. If i get a fail in use i will inform you. But till now still going with no problems! :twothumbs
Thanks for the info ergotelis, sounds promising. Unfortunately, none of my protected 14500 batteries will fit in any of the tubes. However, the diameter and screw threads of the head are compatible with the original Fenix L1T body (although it won't screw down as far as the Fenix head, it will make contact with the body).

So, in the interest of science, I'm currently doing runtimes of the C3 multi-stage head on protected 14500 in a L1T body. :grin2: What I can say so far is that output on Hi significantly exceeds 2AA mode (at least >30% brighter), and even more so on lower modes.

Let's hope I don't blow the circuit ....stay tuned! :sweat:
 

rizky_p

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

i wonder how one would measure frequency that this flashlight uses i want to measure mine as well And a 3xAA Nimh runtime would be excellent :)

Thanks
 

selfbuilt

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, detailed pics!

Ok, 14500 results just added to main post. For those of you too lazy to scroll up: ;)

C3-14500.gif


Very interesting so far. Multi-stage C3 is insanely bright on 14500, similar output and runtime to my brightest 14500 light: the DX Dexlight X.1.

Single-stage C3 is once again shows similar output between 1AA/2AA/14500 modes, but very impressive runtime on 14500. You'll note that the multi-stage C3 on Med has both lower output and lower runtime than the single-stage C3. :thinking:

Low mode is still pending, won't have time until tomorrow - it is Hallowe'en after all! :devil:.
 

selfbuilt

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage (14500 ADDED): RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, pics

i wonder how one would measure frequency that this flashlight uses i want to measure mine as well And a 3xAA Nimh runtime would be excellent :)
Hi rizky .. EngrPaul develop an excellent thread on this topic here:
>>> PWM Frequency List <<<
If you scroll down through the various postings, you will see a more senstive method than the DMM one Paul originally described (using your soundcard and some software).
 

jirik_cz

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage (14500 ADDED): RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, pics

Great review as usual, thanks selfbuilt! On 14500 high mode it looks like it is almost as bright as P2D R100. Impressive.
 
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Bonky

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage (14500 ADDED): RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, pics

Great review.

I own a couple of these and wanted to point out that if you leave the light off for a few minutes it will "reset" and the next time you turn it on it will be in "Medium" output mode.
 

Bonky

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Re: Ultrafire C3 Multi-stage vs Single-stage (14500 ADDED): RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, pics

I'd love to see how this puppy runs on Lithiums. & Looking forward to the rest of the runtimes. Thx again!
 
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