At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

I was playing with a laser pointer when I had the thought. LED's are becoming so powerful that they are becoming a risk to your eyesight. Sure, there aren't that many bright lights available to the "regular people" at WalMart, but sooner or later they will be in the hands of the masses.

I'm just envisioning a mandatroy warning sticker on all LED lights over 100 lumens, just like on lasers.

Do you think it will happen, or SHOULD happen?

Wait until the tweenagers discover them and they become the new "nuisence toy" like lasers used to be. I can see some punk at the mall walking up and blinding the sh*t out of strangers. I think the only thing between now and then is mass public awareness of what is out there. Watch and see.

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

No, there shouldn't be. Why you ask? Nature selection, which seems to be awfully lacking in today's society.

As for being a nuisence toy, I don't think flashlights are focused enough to do it at anything but very short range. And if some punk do that that's a sure way to get their *** kicked.

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

Wasn't there a case where someone at a baseball game was trying to distract a player with a Surefire, or similar light and got removed from the stadium and/or arrested?

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

Delta,

this discussion has come up before and Ra chimed in with a valid point; namely power density vs aperture of the eye. Lasers have extremely high surface energy densities (approaching that of the surface of the sun) and a beam small enough for all the energy to be focused onto the retina by the cornea. LEDs have a much lower surface energy density and, as such, their larger beams spread the energy over a greater area thus resulting in less intense heating of the retina.

The argument is the same for why lasers 'throw' so well compared to incandescent/LED and why HID are better at throwing than LED/Incand etc.

I think it will take a long time for the energy density of LEDs to reach the 'dangerous' level but they are becoming increasingly dazzling.

Andrew

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

cdosrun said:

Delta,

this discussion has come up before and Ra chimed in with a valid point; namely power density vs aperture of the eye. Lasers have extremely high surface energy densities (approaching that of the surface of the sun) and a beam small enough for all the energy to be focused onto the retina by the cornea. LEDs have a much lower surface energy density and, as such, their larger beams spread the energy over a greater area thus resulting in less intense heating of the retina.

The argument is the same for why lasers 'throw' so well compared to incandescent/LED and why HID are better at throwing than LED/Incand etc.

I think it will take a long time for the energy density of LEDs to reach the 'dangerous' level but they are becoming increasingly dazzling.

Andrew

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So 20 seconds with 200 lumens up close couldn't damage your eye? Remember, think "young, dumb, kids lacking common sense and parental discipline"

Don't get me wrong...I'm not for it, I'm just thinking how society thinks. I run a CNC Metal band saw at work. The manual warns not to try changing the blade while the machine is running. See what I mean?

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

jzmtl said:

No, there shouldn't be. Why you ask? Nature selection, which seems to be awfully lacking in today's society.

Click to expand...

Same here in the USA. We won't get into the problems with society or else this site wouldn't be able to hold the thread.

There should not be a warning. JZMTL said all that needs to be said.:thumbsup:

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

Delta said:

I was playing with a laser pointer when I had the thought. LED's are becoming so powerful that they are becoming a risk to your eyesight. Sure, there aren't that many bright lights available to the "regular people" at WalMart, but sooner or later they will be in the hands of the masses.

I'm just envisioning a mandatroy warning sticker on all LED lights over 100 lumens, just like on lasers.

Do you think it will happen, or SHOULD happen?

Wait until the tweenagers discover them and they become the new "nuisence toy" like lasers used to be. I can see some punk at the mall walking up and blinding the sh*t out of strangers. I think the only thing between now and then is mass public awareness of what is out there. Watch and see.

Click to expand...

Nah, that won't happen. LEDs and Lasers are totally different animals.

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

Delta said:

So 20 seconds with 200 lumens up close couldn't damage your eye? Remember, think "young, dumb, kids lacking common sense and parental discipline"

Don't get me wrong...I'm not for it, I'm just thinking how society thinks. I run a CNC Metal band saw at work. The manual warns not to try changing the blade while the machine is running. See what I mean?

Click to expand...

If an alive creature stands still with their eyes wide open looking straight at some 200 lumens source for full 20 seconds without blinking, then don't worry. That ain't no human being to begin with.

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

Outdoors Fanatic said:

If an alive creature stands still with their eyes wide open looking straight at some 200 lumens source for full 20 seconds without blinking, then don't worry. That ain't no human being to begin with.

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Too right, too right! :twothumbs

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

They've had those 1000000+ cp spotlights for years now, and they don't put warning labels on those. Why would you need a warning label on an LED flashlight which is lower intensity and fewer lumens? I'm personally getting tired of society trying to protect idiots from themselves. As another poster here said, just let natural selection run its course.

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

Delta said:

I was playing with a laser pointer when I had the thought. LED's are becoming so powerful that they are becoming a risk to your eyesight. Sure, there aren't that many bright lights available to the "regular people" at WalMart, but sooner or later they will be in the hands of the masses.

I'm just envisioning a mandatroy warning sticker on all LED lights over 100 lumens, just like on lasers.

Do you think it will happen, or SHOULD happen?

Wait until the tweenagers discover them and they become the new "nuisence toy" like lasers used to be. I can see some punk at the mall walking up and blinding the sh*t out of strangers. I think the only thing between now and then is mass public awareness of what is out there. Watch and see.

Click to expand...

Lumen is quantity, not intensity. A 40W fluorescent bulb is 3,300 lumens.

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

Delta said:

I was playing with a laser pointer when I had the thought. LED's are becoming so powerful that they are becoming a risk to your eyesight.

Click to expand...

A lot of flashlights *should* come with warning notices. I've seen a man knock himself unconscious during a strobe induced epileptic fit; it isn't something I want to see again. The exact range at which the strobe on a light will be dangerous to a person with epileptic tendencies will depend partly on the ambient lighting conditions (I suppose) but also heavily on the strobe frequency and intensity. Some strobes may well be dangerous if used as warnings at night. This sort of detail should be provided with a light.

My prediction is that in a few years you won't able to buy a light with a high frequency "tactical" strobe without showing a LEO ID - if I was Fenix I wouldn't be taking the legal risk now. Of course, this will generally improve UI no end...

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

jtr1962 said:

They've had those 1000000+ cp spotlights for years now, and they don't put warning labels on those. Why would you need a warning label on an LED flashlight which is lower intensity and fewer lumens? I'm personally getting tired of society trying to protect idiots from themselves. As another poster here said, just let natural selection run its course.

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I have a spotlight in my boat, I think brinkman or garrity, It says "do not place face down on any surface, and do not shine in face."

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

If you had a Quad Star Phazer from Elektrolumens, then I might refrain from shining the eyes. Multiple emitters = ouch to the retinas. I made a post about "shining" myself on the Illumination forums. The post stated that if I owned the Phazer I would have to blast my eyes to see how bright it really is.:duck: Wayne warned me to avoid that kind of optical rape.

I swear I saw a LED Lenser package at Lowes that had a warning label. I would call that "Marketing Hype" though.

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

Peak warns against shining their lights in your eyes.

Lasers are a different matter, especially those outside of the visible light range. But even 2 milliwatt red laser pointers are festooned with warning tags for some reason. A bright light will force a blink reflex, unless someone has gone all Clockwork Orange on you.

Maybe someone should put a warning label on the sun? I mean, what was the universe thinking, putting that big, dangerous glowy thing up there?

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

Gerber's LX 3.0 has a warning label on the light itself. I don't recall the wording, but Quickbeam had a picture of it on his websight (www.flashlightreviews.com) at one point.

Ok, I just looked and the picture is no longer there.

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

Delta said:

Wasn't there a case where someone at a baseball game was trying to distract a player with a Surefire, or similar light and got removed from the stadium and/or arrested?

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last I heard it was a "photon"


surefire has been using warning labels all over the place....just not for light output
"CAUTION: HOT SURFACE"

I think its a trivial statement to make if you put a warning label on flashlights, its almost like an advertisement. [common sense is another matter]

putting "warning: bright light/may cause blindness" on a flashlight is like putting "warning: sharp edges, may cut fingers" on a knife

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

As soon as someone who has the ear of a senator or representative has an "incident" there will be legislation proposed. You can have all kinds of things happen to normal people, but when it happens to someone with some real money, things get changed. Watch for statements like "If we can save just one child with this warning.... :hairpull: . Hey I really like the chain reaction of the barf guys!

No there shouldn't be a warning. People shouldn't have to be told not to do stupid things....that's what Darwin's Theory is for.

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

The River Rock flashlights that I got from Target have a warning against looking into the LEDs.

Re: At what point will "they" decide that LED flashlights need warning labels?

What will it take? Some pretty little girl/boy somehow hurting themselves with an LED and their rich parents/grandparents will cause some stir and sue or get their senator to raise a stink about it.

That said... The question isn't if, but when.