If it ain't SF it's a wanna-be

If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

I respect the experience and enjoy the reviews of our seasoned veterans but it seems when a new light comes out that challenges Surefire we get two kinds of reviews. Reviews from people that love flashlights and equally compare them on their individual merit and "Surefire Reviews". "Surefire Reviews" are reviews that conclude no matter the light it is a cheap wanna-a-be when measured against a Surefire. We saw the same thing when the Tigerlight first hit the scene but it eased after SEVERAL head to head test with the Surefire's. Now we have the PM6 and here we go again. I love a Surefire but don't think it's the end all light. Surefire makes the highest quality and best looking lights on the market but it takes more than that to be a great light for the masses. Cost and performance are every bit as important as construction. I also don't think the PM6 is an end all light. I wish the SF guys would use their expertise to appraise a light on it's merits and not have "I would rather have a broken Surefire over a 10,000 lumen 1" key chain light with a 100 hour runtime for $10 mentality". With more quality lights we all win. I understand loyalty and defending what you love. But, appreciating a non-Surefire incan. is OK too. For the record I EDC an E2E. I am not anti-Surefire, they make a great torch.

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

I agree with you DieselDave. I am relatively new to the board but I have noticed that some of the people on the board almost take positive reviews of other brands, as a personal affront. This board is a wonderful place no matter how much my wife hates it, and what I like the most is the open minded reviews that are posted so that we all can learn from each others purchases. Which in turn allows us to buy what best suits our needs or wants. As a flashaholic I believe it is all about what the light does, not who makes it...

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

DieselDave,
After buying a Inova5T, a E2e with Kl1, a Pelican M6, a Surefire M2 with P61, a scorpion, and a SL HP stinger in the past few weeks (I got bad). Like you were hinting at each flashlight has its own charm. Surefire seems like a Harley Davidson...its what to own. But that doesn't mean that there isn't better faster motorcycles out there! As for me the Surefire M2 with the P61 does not match the Pelican in brightness and runtime!

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

I'm sure SF holds the patents to using 'camera' batteries in a flashlight. Other companies who choose to follow are indeed "wanna-be's". Even if they didn't, if the lights are aimed at the same sector of the market, it makes sense to compare them to the benchmark. eg. taking a leaf from the automotive market: if a new pickup truck comes out (Tundra) it's all well to review it for what it does functionally, but it's also as valid to compare it to what's already on the market (Silverado, F-x50, Ram, et al.)

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

I hope you not referring to me, but if you are I have been taken the wrong way. I think every light has it place and use, including the PM6. The PM6 wins hands down for long-range lighting, but it's beam color temp, and beam at anything but tight spotted are not that good, much worse then the Scorpion. I often wonder why people need such tight bright beams. Seriously if you walk around a house or building without other lighting the light is to spotted to use and makes it difficult to see anything but what is in the spot. I do this regularly and a brighter beam is actually worse for this task. Again, if you planning to use it outside and 50+ feet then this is the smallest light for that use and I would take it for that task. I use plenty of lights that aren't Surefire and most likely will as time goes on.

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

No Brock it wasn't you. It was more of a general feeling over a long period of time. To be perfectly honest FC's review was what finally prompted me to post.

I also wouldn't use a PM6 for walking around the house. I even think the E2E is to bright for that. I like the ARC AAA or Pelican L1 for walking around the house at night. All around use I still like the E2E better but for an extra punch for outdoor activities in a small package with very impressive performance at a great price I give the PM6 a big /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

Well said Dave! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
and i must add that one should not be too quick to bash a flashlight before getting out there to use it and even more so when one doesn't even have the flashlight!

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

Onyx,
I couldn't agree more and that's my point, compare them. They don't say the Tundra doesn't do what it claims before it's ever released. They don't ignore the Tundra's power or understate it because they like the Silverado better. They compare them and try to make unbiased observations. Pelican didn't set out to match a $75 Surefire they set out to match a $200 Surfire's performance for $40. Is the $40 Pelican as high a quality torch as a $200 Surefire? Of course not but it seems to match up pretty well in performance, rings and all. Rings seem to be the price of an externally adjustable focus. Would the Tundra be worse than the Silverado if they had a zoom on their headlights that when pushed to wide angle had rings? No, they would have the truck that not only has high power lights but they are adjustable unlike their competition.

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

i'm in the process of designing some focusing headlights /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

[ QUOTE ]
Safari said:
DieselDave,
After buying a Inova5T, a E2e with Kl1, a Pelican M6, a Surefire M2 with P61, a scorpion, and a SL HP stinger in the past few weeks (I got bad). Like you were hinting at each flashlight has its own charm. Surefire seems like a Harley Davidson...its what to own. But that doesn't mean that there isn't better faster motorcycles out there!


[/ QUOTE ]

Well said.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

The solution for walking around the house with a tight spotted beam, inside or outside, is a tip off beamshaper...my favorite accessory that doesn't seem to get much mention around here. I like a fixed focus beam with a tip off beamshaper vs an adjustable beam, unless storage space and cost are a factor, in which case a scorpion works well for me...like under the seat of my motorcycle. I haven't tried the M6 yet so I can't comment. The tigerlight also has great overall usefulness for me too, if the size doesn't matter at the time. JMO

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

[ QUOTE ]
DieselDave said:
I also wouldn't use a PM6 for walking around the house. I even think the E2E is to bright for that. I like the ARC AAA or Pelican L1 for walking around the house at night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait until you get to try the McLux for walking around the house at night. It`s truly great.

(Still, though, it`s not a Surefire.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

Nicely conveyed, Dave...

Now on another note, I take offense to the Tundra vs Silverado comparison... Honestly, how can you compare the two!? Me like me Chevy!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Jim

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

[ QUOTE ]
Carpe Diem said:

Wait until you get to try the McLux for walking around the house at night. It`s truly great.



[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I could have afforded a McLux when they came out. It looked like an ideal design to me.

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

I should say more for using when walking from daylight in to a dark unlit building. At that time you need the brighter light of a E2 type level since your eyes haven't adjusted.

Yes the beam shapers are great for really close range, as in under 10 feet.

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

I agree with you Dave 100%. Pelican just wanted a piece of a market it was behind in and who can blame them. And for a first venture into it I'd say they did a pretty freakin' good job. It's easy to get jaded when you invest in expensive high end lights. We all understand their merits, and they constantly raise the bar and create new markets that others want to enter a product in. Bad products should recieve negative reviews but products that live up to their value should get a deserved spot. Folks act like this should have been the "Light of the new MILLENIUM!!!" or something (for $35 bucks, right now, yeah right!).

Tonight My wife and I rode the subway home from a friends' place and since NYC has been on high alert since the 9/11 attacks the city is always crawlin' with cops and National Guard and I still see the majority of cops carry their issue C cell Maglites around, they don't even know the Lithium lights exist and would probably laugh at an $80 light as being completely outside their budget but a PM6 they might take a little more seriously and they would be amazed at the differences. Who knows maybe NYPD will be able to now afford to enter this realm and issue decent lights. It took years for automatics to replace their old 38's now they are common place . Ya gotta see life from all perspectives and take into account that we are a MINORITY of the public. I try to look at products and applications with fresh eyes each time. Someone who can benefit from the upgrade of their old krypton bulb flashlight and may read a negative post on a new inexpensive but decent quality light that is definitely worth the money and is truly a step up from what they carry now may not try these lights because of it.

I try not to become a snob about anything because it really doesn't do a damn bit of good for anybody, just creates more status driven assholes and we have a few too many on the planet already.

Hope I didn't offend anyone here, just trying to open the microcosm up and give it some air.

Thanks,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

surefire has more or less made it easy for their competition by raising their prices to almost ridiculous amounts. a surefire 6P *might* still be better than a pelican M6, but the pelican definitely gives you more value for your money /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

The Pelican M6 is almost unbeatable in a price performance ratio. I just wish they would make it a lil smaller though.

Re: If it ain\'t SF it\'s a wanna-be

good points dave. some on the board are a little surefire snobbish at times. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif