Nitecore Defender Infinity super circuit...?

With the incredible # of messages/postings/prepayment on the Nitecore, I'm a bit curious about the claimed performance spec.

With a 1.2 volts NiHd rechargeable, they claim 180 lumens output. Comparing with Fenix's runtimes, I interpret this to mean that their circuit has the following qualities:

a. While running at a current/voltage necessary for 180 lumens, they are nonetheless as efficient as the Fenix's circuit putting out 100 lumens. Both using 1.2 volts input. Given that Fenix's circuit is already the most efficient in mass production among AA lights, this is an incredible leap in capability.

Note that the greater the difference between input voltage (1.2 volts) and output voltage, the lower the efficiency in a normal situation. They found a circuit that much better than Fenix which is the previous best?

b. They found a way to take 1.2 volts up to a current/voltage capable of driving a Cree Q5 at 180 lumens. Fenix could only manage 100 lumens before the circuit can't put out more current. To get to 180 lumens, fenix need 1 AA cells providing 2.4 volts.

The kicker is that their specification post states that they are still improving the circuit.

I'd sure love to hear Eric at Millermod's opinion as to whether this is feasible. Or anyone else.

Mo

First of all, yes it is likely an exaggerated output just like many other lights out there. However, take for example the RV7 circuit, it can output near 1A with 1 NiMH AA (and with efficiency over 80%). A Q5 is rated around 220 lumens at the emitter at 1A. So fill in the blanks here, even after figuring light loss from the reflector and lens, it's entirely possible to have a 1 AA light outputing close to 180 lumens, though at that level the runtime might only be 30-40 minutes depending on the cell. At their suggested runtime of 50 minutes, I'm guessing the output might be something closer to maybe 130 lumens or so, however 1 AA could be driven even harder at a shorter runtime to approach 180 lumens if someone wanted to. I won't really get into the comparison to Fenix, it's not particularly relevant here. I don't think the circuits in their 1 AA lights have near as high a draw as a circuit like what I mentioned with RV7's, but if they wanted to they could create a higher powered circuit. Just because they haven't done it certainly doesn't mean it isn't possible.

They haven't really measured the output yet, it's only guessed:

Edgetac said:

As we don't have the machine to test the real lumen output, so it's estimated data based on comparison with competitors, as to how bright it indeed is, you may refer to the reviews later, but FYI, when we use one AA battery, it's even brighter than competitor with Li-ion.

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But even 100 lumen would be more than good for me...

If they manage to get way over 100 Lumen on one NiMH cell the emitter is going to be producing a lot of heat. I'm curious about heat managment/heatsinking at those output levels in a small light. I have 1AA lights that produce over 100 Lumen out the front, and they get HOT fast.
Stefan

That's a good point, I guess it would melt in your hand at 180 lumens . For me, it's not about "the brightes AA light" - I am rather searching something that has a good UI, bombproof, good grip (knurling on body), waterproof, reliable... I will be still impressed, even if it's just 90 lumens but it will work as advertised.

Yep. 180+ are wow numbers.



If it did what was promised but delivered 90 lumens, I would be more than satisfied.

180 is emitter lumens unless I've missed a direct quote by Edgetac to the contrary. (So if they do drive the LED to 180 lumens we're looking at about 120 out the front)
We're looking at around 670 mA to the emitter.
At an estimated 3.6 V VF at that current we're putting 2.4W to the emitter.
So at 1.2 volts we're pulling around 2 amps, assuming an 85% efficient driver ~2.3 amps from the battery.
Is such a driver possible? I'm no electrical engineer so when it comes to circuits I have no clue.
I'm pretty sure that one could hook up two driver circuits though and get a satisfactory result.

Have a look at the graph by NiteCore, below. It runs for ~40mins in the regime of 170 Lumens. According to PhantomPhoton a LED will need ~670mA (also Cree Q4 test by evan9162 ) at vf of 3.6v. That's 2.4Watts.

An Eneloop has a nominal voltage of 1.2v and 2000mAh(+100mA actual) capacity. At 2A drain, it should maintain a voltage of 1.2V less for non eneloop cells. That's 2.158Wh according to SilverFox NiMH test.

So it's quite possible, provided that they have a highly efficient circuit there. Not sure about 85%, but 80% may can be achievable in mass production circuits. Also the bin they use should be Q5 and low vf. Finally these numbers are best case not worst case. I don't think the Lumens number are true output, it's probably translated from the drive current.

What is an eneloop??? I am just venturing into AA with this light and have always stuck with CR123 and RCR123. Is the Eneloop some form of rechargeable or Li-Ion battery in AA size?

luminata said:

What is an eneloop??? I am just venturing into AA with this light and have always stuck with CR123 and RCR123. Is the Eneloop some form of rechargeable or Li-Ion battery in AA size?

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AA or AAA Low Self Discharge NiMH battery. Unlike regular NiMH, they retain 85% of their charge for a year, where regular NiMH will loose around 30% per month.

Sanyo eneloop are specila NiMH rechargables with very low selfdiscahrge. If you load them completely after one year of storage wou would still have rounabaout 80% of its capacity. An they are said to keep their fuctionality in an cold environment better than standard NiMH. the only disadvantage is, that they "only have" 2000 mAh.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/79302

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/149804

how can i order this intressting piece?

E.R.S. said:

how can i order this intressting piece?

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They have an order thread going in the MarketPlace

Certainly be interesting to read the reviews when this flashlight is released.


_

Im with everyone else, i'm definately not expecting this to be 180lm for 50 min for $50, just doesn't seem realistic at this point. But i am willing to throw in $50 for a hopefully infinitely variable light with 2 remembered settings. Seems awesome to me. And it's AA so if i don't like it, i'll give it to a non-flashaholic with no fear of 123 explosion or sticker shock.