I'm somewhat of a newbie flashaholic. Bought my first LED light at a gun-show in April (maybe March). It was an Ultrafire C3 and I paid gun show price...about $30 I think. Before I saw them on line for $17 at Dealextreme.
But that extra money was spit in the ocean. I'd be embarrassed (EDIT - anyplace but here) to admit how many lights I've bought since and how many hours I've spent reading CFP. (Dozens of lights and countless hours reading CPF posts).
Now it seems to me that being a newbie doesn't effect the fact that I do a bunch of business in Asia....mostly manufacturing products in China, but also importing goods from Thailand (mostly jewelry) and even Vietnam (mostly art).
I am convinced I can have the 'ultimate' flashlight made to my specs in China fairly inexpensively.
I am also convinced that the very best way to come up with the specs is to have an open discussion with the CPF forum members.
I'd start with the notion of a modular light. One that comes with different tubes for different configurations. Perhaps a C2 and/or 123 body. Also a single or double AA body. Of course I'd need some kind of regulator that would work with different inputs. (or not?). I need to get my partner in one of my ventures involved. He's an electrical engineer.
A non sealed (glued) head that would allow a change of LEDs as they develop. Why need a new light just to get a new LED?
Possible? I believe so, but I'm open to opinions.
Interface....again open to opinions. Obviously an infinite (Titan) type rheostat of some kind with a memory.....maybe a memory that can be used or bypassed.
Construction along the quality of a Surefire or Inova or Novatec.
Size adjustable from something like a Fenix PD and up depending on battery tubes used (remember...a battery extension for an Ultrafire is less than $5 and about $2 if purchased with the light, and it has threads on both ends. Alumunium seems cheap ...of course with better anodizing and knurling I'd expect it to cost more, but so what....how much more could it be when the basic item sells retail for $2???
Now I have seen plenty of threads on CPF where peope describe their 'ideal" light. Difference here is I really believe I can make it happen.
What I want is input....give me your ideas and I'll challenge myself to come up with the ideal combination of features. Aluminum? Stainless? Titanium (seems cost inefficient, but who knows?) - I don't want to build a piece of jewelry like the Lummi...I want a versatile true rought and tumble indestructable EDC light.
How to finance this? Well, Surefire has a name of great recognition, so they were able to sell out their Titan before it existed. But this new "Defender"....we'll have sent about $30,000 to someone in China with no known product.
Me, I wouldn't be comfortable taking money on the come. What I would be comfortable with would be an indication of interest. I can get to and back from China and have a design for I believe $5000 or so....money I'd spend out of my own pocket.
But I'd do it if i had a list of people that would give me an indication of interest. I'd then do what was done with the Defender...have a few prototypes made and send them to CPF members for reviews. At THAT POINT I would then accept advanced payments and have the lights made and shipped (after making sure they withstood some kind of torture test).
And unlike someone in China where we have no recourse, if I were to 'scam' anyone here, I'd risk jail. I have no reason to take such a risk. I don't need the money and I certainly don't need the legal hassles. If I can't deliver, no one loses a cent.
Price? What's fair? I honestly don't know. But I'm imagining a light that will not be obsolete every time a new emitter hits the market. I imagine a proprietary system of "plug and play' for the newer emitters (size permitting....maybe an occasional more radical change, but still, modular..not requiring a new light every few months.
What's in this for me? The fun of a new product to manufacture and import....for me jewelry and women's handbags don't do anything to get my blood flowing...just pays the bills.
For CPF flashaholics...what's in it for you? Well, that too can be discussed. My first inclination is to have say (not carved in stone) the first 1000 or 500 or whatever people to have a lifetime of upgrades at a substantial discount (at least 50%)...
Or, depending on the initial cost of the light, perhaps free upgrades as new LEDs are released (assuming they can fit in the existing board). Maybe for 2 years, maybe longer.....how much does a new emitter really cost? Looks like not a lot.
Again, a "plug and play' design with no soldering, etc....the modular light even I could upgrade. And of course with a design that would remain waterproof even though the lens, reflector and emitter are user accessible....which with a proper design of threading and O-rings seems not unreasonable.
OK...well that's the start. I know the electrical engineers here I would have do the initial design. (as I mentioned, one is a partner in a factoring business that has nothing to do with anything electrical, but he's got the credentials)...it's the saving in cost of the actual manufacture in China that brings China into the equation. Can i do the whole process here? I don't know but I will certainly explore the possibility. But I don't want to have Surefire type prices (maybe i can make a deal with Mag? LOL - hey, ya never know).
One last word. My original thought was to make each of the first "X" number of buyers a shareholder who would profit by dividends since it would be their money that is (or may be...depending how this is structured) really "venture capital" used to develop this "ultimate light'. In fact I even mentioned that we who sent our Pay pal funds to buy the "Defender" should be shareholders.
Two problems....one, trying to be a shareholder in a Chinese company....that's a BIG "LOL" - (BTW, when we tried to import Chinese pickup trucks the assorted ministers had their hands out for bribes in the range of millions of dollars.....often just to buy an introduction to the next guy up the governmental ladder...the minister of this or that.
. For all their capitalism, China is still a communist country and is going through the growing pains of becoming westernized. Right now they are in the bribery and corruption phase we experience during our railroad boom in the 19th century....they didn't call the "ROBBER" Barons that for nothing.
Second problem is to make buyers shareholders here opens a whole complex world of SEC filings, possible endless lawsuits, etc (I was a Wall Street guy from 1984 until 2005, so I know the headaches that are part and parcel of trying to make something seemingly simple into an offering....even when it is small enough to not require the more complicated compliance of issuing stock. But the headaches of having to deal with even just 500 or 1000 "investors" is more than I am willing to deal with at this point. I just want to have fun and produce the "perfect' EDC light.....maybe call it the CFP or something like that (again, suggestions welcome).
Can this be done? IMO, definitely. Will it be done? I can only hope so. The big issue being of course what the interest is here.
And of course the cost. Would this be a $50 light or a $200 light? I can't know at this point obviously, but my main concern is it would be worth every penny it costs. ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO WHAT IS NOW AVAILABLE!!!!!!
And that would depend on what it is. And in turn, that would depend on what all of us decide it should be.
So? Opinions? Input? Enthusiasm? Skepticism?
(BTW, if this post/thread is in the wrong place, i hope the moderators will let me know and move it (or if it has to be removed entirely, please let me know why and what I can do to re-instate it if i have violated any of the CFP rules).
Thanks all and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
I am moving in the morning so I hope the cable guys show up as scheduled so I'll have internet access. If I'm MIA for 24 hours or so after tonight (and I'm pretty beat now...movers and stress today...takes it out of an old guy like me)....well, that will be why. But please don't let my possilbe one day disappearance from this thread interfere with any contributing ideas. I like new ventures and though this one seems doubtful (probably impossible) to be a profitable one, that' OK....I've been semi-retired for a few years and what I do now I do for the challenge, not the profit.
Peace,
D.
But that extra money was spit in the ocean. I'd be embarrassed (EDIT - anyplace but here) to admit how many lights I've bought since and how many hours I've spent reading CFP. (Dozens of lights and countless hours reading CPF posts).
Now it seems to me that being a newbie doesn't effect the fact that I do a bunch of business in Asia....mostly manufacturing products in China, but also importing goods from Thailand (mostly jewelry) and even Vietnam (mostly art).
I am convinced I can have the 'ultimate' flashlight made to my specs in China fairly inexpensively.
I am also convinced that the very best way to come up with the specs is to have an open discussion with the CPF forum members.
I'd start with the notion of a modular light. One that comes with different tubes for different configurations. Perhaps a C2 and/or 123 body. Also a single or double AA body. Of course I'd need some kind of regulator that would work with different inputs. (or not?). I need to get my partner in one of my ventures involved. He's an electrical engineer.
A non sealed (glued) head that would allow a change of LEDs as they develop. Why need a new light just to get a new LED?
Possible? I believe so, but I'm open to opinions.
Interface....again open to opinions. Obviously an infinite (Titan) type rheostat of some kind with a memory.....maybe a memory that can be used or bypassed.
Construction along the quality of a Surefire or Inova or Novatec.
Size adjustable from something like a Fenix PD and up depending on battery tubes used (remember...a battery extension for an Ultrafire is less than $5 and about $2 if purchased with the light, and it has threads on both ends. Alumunium seems cheap ...of course with better anodizing and knurling I'd expect it to cost more, but so what....how much more could it be when the basic item sells retail for $2???
Now I have seen plenty of threads on CPF where peope describe their 'ideal" light. Difference here is I really believe I can make it happen.
What I want is input....give me your ideas and I'll challenge myself to come up with the ideal combination of features. Aluminum? Stainless? Titanium (seems cost inefficient, but who knows?) - I don't want to build a piece of jewelry like the Lummi...I want a versatile true rought and tumble indestructable EDC light.
How to finance this? Well, Surefire has a name of great recognition, so they were able to sell out their Titan before it existed. But this new "Defender"....we'll have sent about $30,000 to someone in China with no known product.
Me, I wouldn't be comfortable taking money on the come. What I would be comfortable with would be an indication of interest. I can get to and back from China and have a design for I believe $5000 or so....money I'd spend out of my own pocket.
But I'd do it if i had a list of people that would give me an indication of interest. I'd then do what was done with the Defender...have a few prototypes made and send them to CPF members for reviews. At THAT POINT I would then accept advanced payments and have the lights made and shipped (after making sure they withstood some kind of torture test).
And unlike someone in China where we have no recourse, if I were to 'scam' anyone here, I'd risk jail. I have no reason to take such a risk. I don't need the money and I certainly don't need the legal hassles. If I can't deliver, no one loses a cent.
Price? What's fair? I honestly don't know. But I'm imagining a light that will not be obsolete every time a new emitter hits the market. I imagine a proprietary system of "plug and play' for the newer emitters (size permitting....maybe an occasional more radical change, but still, modular..not requiring a new light every few months.
What's in this for me? The fun of a new product to manufacture and import....for me jewelry and women's handbags don't do anything to get my blood flowing...just pays the bills.
For CPF flashaholics...what's in it for you? Well, that too can be discussed. My first inclination is to have say (not carved in stone) the first 1000 or 500 or whatever people to have a lifetime of upgrades at a substantial discount (at least 50%)...
Or, depending on the initial cost of the light, perhaps free upgrades as new LEDs are released (assuming they can fit in the existing board). Maybe for 2 years, maybe longer.....how much does a new emitter really cost? Looks like not a lot.
Again, a "plug and play' design with no soldering, etc....the modular light even I could upgrade. And of course with a design that would remain waterproof even though the lens, reflector and emitter are user accessible....which with a proper design of threading and O-rings seems not unreasonable.
OK...well that's the start. I know the electrical engineers here I would have do the initial design. (as I mentioned, one is a partner in a factoring business that has nothing to do with anything electrical, but he's got the credentials)...it's the saving in cost of the actual manufacture in China that brings China into the equation. Can i do the whole process here? I don't know but I will certainly explore the possibility. But I don't want to have Surefire type prices (maybe i can make a deal with Mag? LOL - hey, ya never know).
One last word. My original thought was to make each of the first "X" number of buyers a shareholder who would profit by dividends since it would be their money that is (or may be...depending how this is structured) really "venture capital" used to develop this "ultimate light'. In fact I even mentioned that we who sent our Pay pal funds to buy the "Defender" should be shareholders.
Two problems....one, trying to be a shareholder in a Chinese company....that's a BIG "LOL" - (BTW, when we tried to import Chinese pickup trucks the assorted ministers had their hands out for bribes in the range of millions of dollars.....often just to buy an introduction to the next guy up the governmental ladder...the minister of this or that.
. For all their capitalism, China is still a communist country and is going through the growing pains of becoming westernized. Right now they are in the bribery and corruption phase we experience during our railroad boom in the 19th century....they didn't call the "ROBBER" Barons that for nothing.
Second problem is to make buyers shareholders here opens a whole complex world of SEC filings, possible endless lawsuits, etc (I was a Wall Street guy from 1984 until 2005, so I know the headaches that are part and parcel of trying to make something seemingly simple into an offering....even when it is small enough to not require the more complicated compliance of issuing stock. But the headaches of having to deal with even just 500 or 1000 "investors" is more than I am willing to deal with at this point. I just want to have fun and produce the "perfect' EDC light.....maybe call it the CFP or something like that (again, suggestions welcome).
Can this be done? IMO, definitely. Will it be done? I can only hope so. The big issue being of course what the interest is here.
And of course the cost. Would this be a $50 light or a $200 light? I can't know at this point obviously, but my main concern is it would be worth every penny it costs. ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO WHAT IS NOW AVAILABLE!!!!!!
And that would depend on what it is. And in turn, that would depend on what all of us decide it should be.
So? Opinions? Input? Enthusiasm? Skepticism?
(BTW, if this post/thread is in the wrong place, i hope the moderators will let me know and move it (or if it has to be removed entirely, please let me know why and what I can do to re-instate it if i have violated any of the CFP rules).
Thanks all and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
I am moving in the morning so I hope the cable guys show up as scheduled so I'll have internet access. If I'm MIA for 24 hours or so after tonight (and I'm pretty beat now...movers and stress today...takes it out of an old guy like me)....well, that will be why. But please don't let my possilbe one day disappearance from this thread interfere with any contributing ideas. I like new ventures and though this one seems doubtful (probably impossible) to be a profitable one, that' OK....I've been semi-retired for a few years and what I do now I do for the challenge, not the profit.
Peace,
D.
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