Should SF make a 6NPL

Numbers

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With all the talk about SF not continuously upgrading to the latest and greatest led why wouldnt they consider making a "6 Non Professional L". Clearly label it as such and market it to those who want such a light. Based on what I read here on CPF they could sell a ton of them without compromising their stature as the leader in high quality professional use lights. Dont even call it a SF call it a 6NPL distrubuted by SF. Or if necessary dont even identify it as a SF create a new name.
I know that no company that is the leader in their field wants to do anything to compromise their reputation (I used to work for one) but they could start a new division with a different name or buy a company to serve the non professional market at a higher level than the existing companies do now. They have to have kicked it around.
 

Size15's

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So it wouldn't look like an 6P? It wouldn't look like a SureFire but retail the patented LockOut TailCap and use the same LED lamp assembly?

BTW, SureFire has a 6PN (Navy aka waterproof version) already so putting a P60L in a 6PN would create a 6PNL.

Anyway... back on topic... So you would like to see a lower cost aluminium flashlight that uses SureFire's P60L LED lamp assembly, and you think that SureFire should make one because you believe you are not alone in wishing this?

Further, you think that SureFire should market such a flashlight under a different name than SureFire so as not to damage it's brand image?

My question to you is - why would SureFire want to do such a thing?

SureFire already have a lower cost alternative to the 6P - the G2. Are the Nitrolon products still too expensive for the market you place yourself in?

Is SureFire capable of manufacturing a product in sufficient quantity to meet the demand that would likely result from lowering the price below that of the G2L?

I'm sorry but I don't think your idea is a very good one. I doubt that SureFire would think differently. If the primary purpose of SureFire was to sell more flashlights and make more money then maybe.
However, I've never been given the impression from my years of dealings with SureFire that they are in business to make money - it helps that they do because it serves their purpose which is to create products needed by Military and Law Enforcement - specifically special ops units. R&D into these products eventually cascades down to products they make for retail which they can use to help fund the 'cool science'. I sometimes get the impression that having to manufacture retail products is like a distraction for SureFire and that it would be easier if they didn't feel obligated to make some of their products available to a wider audience that can also benefit from them.

I think you are right that if SureFire want to reach a truly wide market they would need to start up a separate division to take care of this so it didn't impact on the things they are currently doing.

Al
 

Numbers

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Size 15,
I am not necessarily interested in such a light, but many around here are.
Please dont read too much into this all I am simply suggesting is taking the 6PL and make a "homeowner" version continually upgraded with the newest brightest hard driven led as soon as it comes available. That SF does not do this is a knock that many on this forum (I think wrongly) have on them.

Not a lot of R&D just bang them out, under a separate division. I am sure SF is interested in making money but perhaps more important this would seem to build market share and product awareness as it would be better built than others in this market segment.

Of coures this is not a very bright idea if as you say they are not really interested in selling more lights to more people and that in fact retail sales might be a distraction to the business that they do best.

They certainly would put a dent into some of those foreign companies that are all the rage now on the retail side. I think they should keep an eye on it, (unfortunately) I am old enough to remember when made in JAPAN meant crap - will that happen with China some day.
 

Size15's

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I suggest that SureFire is not the right organisation to be looking to for the sorts of products some CPFers want to see a SureFire logo on.

SureFire makes SureFire products according to the markets it positions itself in.

CPF doesn't tend to be one of the markets so I feel its wasted effort to expect SureFire to produce products for CPFers when SureFire clearly aren't interested.

It makes more sense to me for CPFers to find a companies wanting to make products for CPFers and then concentrate their energies in helping these companies make the products CPFers want.

I think that sticking a SureFire logo on a product does not make it a SureFire - SureFires are what they are to earn the right to feature the logo.

If you want a SureFire then get a SureFire. If you don't want a SureFire - there's plenty of choice from which to select yourself a more suitable product.

Part of what makes a SureFire a SureFire is the investment one makes in the company when buying a product. I see it like I'm not just buying a SureFire - I'm also buying into the ability to buy new SureFires in the future.

Al
 

KeyGrip

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I think at this point the only ways for SureFire to sell a light at that price point are to outsource production and/or seriously downgrade quality. I don't think they're likely to do either. I get where you're coming from, and something like it has been implemented before in the knife world. Spyderco saw a lot of cheap knockoffs of their knives being made, so they started a separate brand, Byrd knives, which are produced in China. They are all designed by Spyderco and go through the same QC process, they're just made for less money. Oh, and people like them.
 

SolarMan

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I vote NO!

Why de-value a premium product?

I'm a Mountian Biker and I no longer support the "Made in USA" companies that have sold out to the "ok - some are made in China" philosophy. It makes the whole line cheap.

It shows a willigness to take short cuts just to make a quick buck.

I would then question the entire SureFire line.

NO WAY! :shakehead
 

scottaw

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There's plenty of other companies who make cheap lights, some will even fit a P60 assembly, i'm a fan of buying things once, so i'll stick to surefire, and let some other chump buy 10 cheaper lights as they break.
 

flash_bang

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I think surefire doesn't want to do the whole "bang them [the new led's] out" thing because manufacturing a new light with a different LED in it every two months is a pain in the ***, especially with as a big of a company as surefire is. So no, I don't think it's a good idea.

Also, Size15's, what is this 6PN you speak of?

Thanks much,
Flash
 

Monocrom

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Bad idea.... Only a matter of time before folks find out that Surefire is behind the new brand that makes cheaper lights, and here comes the big hit to their reputation.

Spyderco didn't take a big hit to their rep. because their Byrd line is actually as good as many of their lesser priced Spyderco models, in terms of quality. (But at a lower price). Oops! Then again, perhaps that was intentional. :thinking:
 

KeyGrip

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Monocrom, I agree. I think selling the G2 is the closest SureFire will come to a budget light for quite some time now. It does, in my mind, serve the same purpose for SureFire as the Byrd knives do with Spyderco. The G2 is a "gateway" light. People buy them because they're cheaper and some of them decide to see what the rest of the product line is about. It's a decent idea, but it's not really in line with SureFire's policy right now.
 

Size15's

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Also, Size15's, what is this 6PN you speak of?
Perhaps you'd care to search CPF?
SureFire uses the suffix "N" to state that the product has been individually tested and 'certified' waterproof to usually 30 metres / 100 feet depth. Other than the 6PN and a couple of WeaponLights it is rare for other models to be made available to the public since it is a service SureFire primarily offers to specialist [Navy] military units.
 

Monocrom

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Perhaps you'd care to search CPF?
SureFire uses the suffix "N" to state that the product has been individually tested and 'certified' waterproof to usually 30 metres / 100 feet depth. Other than the 6PN and a couple of WeaponLights it is rare for other models to be made available to the public since it is a service SureFire primarily offers to specialist [Navy] military units.

I'd happily pay extra for an L4N. A light that's tough as nails, tosses out a wall of light, and can't be killed by drowning.... who wouldn't want that!

Yeah I know, not likely to happen. :sigh:

EDIT: Does this mean the 8NX & 9AN Commander fit the above criteria?
 
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djblank87

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While the OP does have a valid point, it is a point that can't be made with the word Surefire in the title.

Surefire holds there products to such a high standard, that when I buy one I know I'm getting a proven light. I will take a proven light with some older technology, anyday over a light that was created last month with the newest items in it.

If I ever herd Surefire was making cheaper light under a different company name, honestly I would stop buying there products. :thumbsdow I hold Surefire at a different standard when compared to other light companies. I expect the best and when I buy a Surefire light I know I'm getting just that, the best light for the application intended, well R&D, tough as hell and meets my lumen needs.

Right out of the box I'm good to go......with some of my other non-Surefire lights they were bought on the whim of being new and really bright. Those are not light I would take with me to work, or a life and death situation.

The reason for that is they are not a proven light that will preform well in a high stress situation. With Surefire I never second guess the light, I grab and go and that is key for just about everyone.

My two cents. :broke:
 
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Monocrom

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Interestingly (?) enough, the rechargable models (8X/8AX/8NX/9N/9AN/10X) can not be 'N-certified' due them having a vent hole (fitted with a Hydrogen absorbing pellet)

:awman:

Would you happen to know why those two models have an "N" as part of their model designation? :confused:
 

sween1911

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With all the talk about SF not continuously upgrading to the latest and greatest led why wouldnt they consider making a "6 Non Professional L". Clearly label it as such and market it to those who want such a light. Based on what I read here on CPF they could sell a ton of them without compromising their stature as the leader in high quality professional use lights. Dont even call it a SF call it a 6NPL distrubuted by SF. Or if necessary dont even identify it as a SF create a new name.
I know that no company that is the leader in their field wants to do anything to compromise their reputation (I used to work for one) but they could start a new division with a different name or buy a company to serve the non professional market at a higher level than the existing companies do now. They have to have kicked it around.

I think other brands can readily fill this gap. From the Brinkmann Maxfire, Streamlight TL-2, Scorpion, Scorpion LED and many, many others already occupy that market. It may seem odd, that Surefire doesn't want to perhaps come out with an econo-brand, but they occupy a very high-end product line. As an example, allow me to relate a case that I read about when researching how some products are brought to market. Please understand I'm just recalling this from memory and some of the details may be glossed over...

The Gilette company had come to cross roads with the development of the high-end line of shaving products. There were some within the company that felt they should expand on the econo-line of disposables and could beat Bic and the other econo-brands at their own game. Some felt that they should concentrate on their high-end and abandon the lower cost models. They actually had it out and experienced a lot of arguing about what to do. Ultimately, they chose to concentrate their efforts and release the Mach III and the Fusion which have become great sellers despite perhaps losing some market share at the economy priced low-end. I think you're absolutely correct in that Surefire probably went through a similar process in defining their business model and how they would market their products.

I'm sure with some Google-fu, you may be able to research this and similar business cases, but I think concentrating the efforts and doing what you do best is a good strategy for Surefire.
 
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Size15's

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:awman:

Would you happen to know why those two models have an "N" as part of their model designation? :confused:
This is the ineffable SureFire product designation 'system'...
I do not know why the 8 Series is X and the 9 Series is N.
Nitrolon wasn't invented back then.

Why P (6P/9P etc) for straight bodies and why Z (6Z/9Z etc) for CombatGrips?

I always assumed it was like the Strider Knives naming system.

Only since the "Millennium" did SureFire attempt to standardise nomenclatures
 

Monocrom

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This is the ineffable SureFire product designation 'system'...
I do not know why the 8 Series is X and the 9 Series is N.
Nitrolon wasn't invented back then.

Why P (6P/9P etc) for straight bodies and why Z (6Z/9Z etc) for CombatGrips?

I always assumed it was like the Strider Knives naming system.

Only since the "Millennium" did SureFire attempt to standardise nomenclatures

I guess some things are just the way they are.... because they are that way. :shrug:
 
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