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Thread: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Quote Originally Posted by kooter View Post
    I cant say i have seen much "Trolling" in my days on CPF, maybe i have not looked hard enough.
    Agreed - I love coming here because it is so free of the stupidity elsewhere on the internet (I can admit to being an engineer without inviting ridicule!) I'm guessing that like me you simply don't visit the "right" parts of the forum (I'd imagine it's more prevalent when discussing different bands of flashlights). Either that or we're both actually trolls without knowing it!

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiessling View Post
    Thanx again

    With the community spirit displayed here I am very positive that we'll make it through the mud and let CPF shine again. THank you so much for the support. Warms our hearts.

    bernie
    Well said!

    I think, for many of us, we don't care who manufacturers the light, or where it's made as long as it lights up! Having multiple levels, HAIII coating and the latest emitters also doesn't hurt! Ultimately though, we are all Flashoholics who, well... simply like lights!

    Any time there is a large community, you are bound to have strong personalities who, perhaps, have some ax to grind for whatever reason.
    Thanks again to all the moderators who are doing a great job.
    Looking for: jhanko 'biohazard' V10R Ti clip, Luce de Notte (SS / Ti), SF Z2 (body, complete light, bored, unbored). Pls PM me with an offer.

  3. #63
    *Flashaholic* Darell's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Quote Originally Posted by jay_imok View Post
    another forum to which i belong encourages "peer pressure" to keep offending posters in line. after a couple of inappropriate comments they either realize the err of their ways or drift off to another site.
    This is what I was referring to earlier (and Don expanded on). Self-policing is the best way to handle these things - and by that I mean the forum members taking an active role in staying to the happy path. The worst thing that happens in the case of a troll is that somebody actually takes the bait. If a troll is ignored, the troll goes away. No fun for 'em.

    the approach being developed here apparently requires close scrutiny by the Mod Squad.
    Yeah, and that's a lot of work. WAY Better to have the members stay on top of things in the threads they're involved with. As Don pointed out, we're often called to a thread that we know nothing about. Takes a while to research all that's happening. Bit ol PITA. A quick PM or email to a member that's being a dork can do wonders... IF that member wants to stay on the happy path.

    and i guess i have not noticed the range of unacceptable posts being referred. except the "emoticons" that are prevellant everywhere!
    That means that you are either lucky, or that staff is doing it's job... or some of both.

    OK, I'm heading to the happy path to bed. Happy Thanksgiving everybody! And seriously - thanks for all the earnest discussion in this thread - gives me the warm fuzzies to see how many people really do still care about CPF.
    - Darell, the EVnut
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  4. #64

    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Thank you,all the people who work at keeping this place up and running.CPF has been one of the best forums,thanks again for keeping it that way. Dave.

  5. #65
    Flashaholic* Hitthespot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    I've only been around this forum for a short time ( month or two ). I am a member of a few other forums. Rolex, knives, guns, etc.... I must say that I see fewer outbreaks with less hostility on this forum than I do on other forums. I know they exsist but they seem mild to me. I've seen outbreaks at the Timezone forum that would make you duck for cover just watching the fireworks. I think that speaks well for the administrators and staff of CPF as well as the members. I think this is why I have enjoyed this forum as much or more than any other I've been involved in. Now having said that I noticed what Robby is talking about immediately after joining. Needless to say I was almost afraid of making a mistake to start out. Is a matter of fact my first post was moved without an explanation. I had to ask why. A little help to a new member wasn't expected but would have been nice.

    You have to deal with the trouble makers, trolls and people who poorly or not at all can see other people views, is a matter of fact it probably takes up way too much of the staffs time and at times it's probably all you talk about. BUT remember this is a very very small percentage of people and is inherent in so many people coming together with so many different views A patient, helpfull, and friendly staff creating a pleasant atmosphere will just continue to add to this great forum.

    Keep up the good work and thank you for a wonderfull forum.

    Bill

  6. #66
    *Flashaholic* Patriot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    I agree with Hitthespot. This forum is far more civil than many of the gun, knife and even mountain biking forums that I visit. It's really great that CPF Admins care enough and are involved so as to keep things in check. Although trolling is rare at CPF is does happen and it ultra-annoying when it does. I'm thankful that it's usually addressed quickly here because CPF is my favorite forum and I love coming here.

  7. #67
    Flashaholic* hank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    We're lucky, and the admins are doing a wonderful job.

    I've been online since PC-Talk, dialup bulletin boards, 300 baud acoustic coupler modems, and vt100 terminals; over all that time, the race between faster telecom and faster trolls has always been close.

    The Web was a big stumble backwards from the great filtering and ability to ignore stuff built into Usenet newsreaders. This is one of the few forums these days where I don't need a killfile.

    Y'all do a wonderful job of convincing those playing that game not to do it here.

  8. #68
    Flashaholic* 3rd_shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    I have been through this read several times now.
    The 1st time I saw this last night, I think I misunderstood it.
    Now several times later, I think I understand this now.

    I'll just sum it up by saying this;

    Trolls come in a variety of distasteful flavors.
    Ranging from bad jokers to outright crooks.

    It can only help to see more than a couple members of the cpf team help to get this kind of stuff under control.
    It should indeed be a true, accross the board team effort imho.
    That's the way it had to be with me and my coworkers when I worked security.
    Once we were known as "The Swarm" things quieted down quite a bit and we enjoyed our jobs.
    United we ruled with success, apart we begged to no avail.

    This forum has an enormous amount of potential.
    And please do let us the members, know what we can do to help out.

    Sincerely;

    Stephen.

  9. #69
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rd_shift View Post
    I have been through this read several times now.
    The 1st time I saw this last night, I think I misunderstood it.
    Now several times later, I think I understand this now.

    I'll just sum it up by saying this;

    Trolls come in a variety of distasteful flavors.
    Ranging from bad jokers to outright crooks.

    It can only help to see more than a couple members of the cpf team help to get this kind of stuff under control.
    It should indeed be a true, accross the board team effort imho.
    That's the way it had to be with me and my coworkers when I worked security.
    Once we were known as "The Swarm" things quieted down quite a bit and we enjoyed our jobs.
    United we ruled with success, apart we begged to no avail.

    This forum has an enormous amount of potential.
    And please do let us the members, know what we can do to help out.

    Sincerely;

    Stephen.
    Stephen,

    I'm glad you've taken the time to read and re-read and properly understand what we are trying to accomplish here. I was a bit worried by your post on another board.... calling Bernie a troll and "We're Not Gonna Take it!"... (Crank it... right?)... and don't forget the Metallica Justice for All album of 1988. So do you think you'll be revising your post there now to reflect your new found revelations? While we won't be taking into consideration posts on other forums when we as the collective staff decide to name someone a troll on CPF, perhaps we should consider those posts when trying to decide whether or not we will take serious what that person is posting here.

    And thank you for letting me know that this forum has so much potential. Again, I was a bit worried what with the uncomplimentary things that you have to say about me, my staff and CPF itself on other forums. I know that with the help of my staff and the others who have posted so positively in this thread that we won't have any problems reaching that potential and beyond... once we weed out those who add nothing and "aren't gonna take it!".... (Crank it!)
    Last edited by Greta; 11-23-2007 at 04:26 PM.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Sasha


  11. #71
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Quote Originally Posted by Empath View Post
    Sasha


    I never thought I'd say this, but here it comes:

    +1
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
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  12. #72
    *Flashaholic* precisionworks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Happy to see that you've done this. I've abandoned two other boards that let anyone post anything, no matter how OT, no matter how offensive. Nice to see that you care enough to get rid of people who need not be here.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Thanks Admin & Mods for a nice place to visit!

  14. #74
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    I have to admit that I was blissfully unaware of some of the problems going on here. But after taking a quick trip to the underground yesterday I found that it all made sense. Sasha and the mods (hey, maybe a good name for a band?), thank you for your continuing efforts to keep this place safe and focused on the quest for knowledge and lumens.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    I am a lurker -- have enjoyed reading and learning from the discussions on this forum, but now I have a question. I am not sure if this is the appropriate place to ask it. There is a website www.light-reviews.com (I think) that I have liked. Apparently the user who created that site has been banned (and seems unhappy about it from the tone on his website). I am sure that the entire story is very complicated, but to a newbee it seems somewhat harsh to ban someone who seems to have a great interest in flashlights and obviously dedicates quite a bit of time to reviewing them. Just a thought.

  16. #76
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Quote Originally Posted by spinecho View Post
    I am a lurker -- have enjoyed reading and learning from the discussions on this forum, but now I have a question. I am not sure if this is the appropriate place to ask it. There is a website www.light-reviews.com (I think) that I have liked. Apparently the user who created that site has been banned (and seems unhappy about it from the tone on his website). I am sure that the entire story is very complicated, but to a newbee it seems somewhat harsh to ban someone who seems to have a great interest in flashlights and obviously dedicates quite a bit of time to reviewing them. Just a thought.
    spinecho... thank you for your thought. I think, however, that everything has been explained pretty clearly in this thread as far as the reasoning and criteria used for banning. Also, if you were to go to the Underground, which I have this feeling that you've already been there... am I correct? (I'm not as stupid as I look... )... well, perhaps you'd see more.

    I'm glad you have an alternative to CPF though for your interest in flashlights. It's always nice to have choices...

  17. #77
    *Flashaholic* js's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Sasha,

    After reading your two most recent posts previous to this one, I just simply have to say:

    Holy cow! You ROCK! You are a freaking INSPIRATION!!! Awesome posts!

    -Jim Sexton, creator of the M6-R, the TigerLight Upgrades, Fixture-ring lamp potting, the SL60, co-designer of the B90 Upgrade, and proponent of the SF A2, the SF M6 X-LOLA, Titanium, the Haiku, and the LunaSol 20

  18. #78

    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Dear sasha

    I tried editing my initial post after I released it but it didn't work. The feeling I was trying to convey is sadness and disappointment that we can't all get along. I have never been to the "underground", and from the sound of your post I guess it is not a place that I would want to go. I do not want you to take my initial post as in indicator that I don't like or want to be a part of cpf -- I just felt sorry for the guy who got banned. Maybe I shouldn't. I don't know.

    Honestly, I probably shouldn't have posted the first comment, because it doesn't really add anything to the entire discussion and I am too new to really understand what is going on, and I think that the post had a critical tone that I did not intend.
    Last edited by spinecho; 11-24-2007 at 08:50 AM. Reason: did not like wording

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    I think that one of the main quality points of CPF is the fact that it IS moderated and administered on an actual basis. I usually frequent technical forums on telecommunications. Many trolls and just plain evil people simply wait on the edge of their chairs on these forums to cause pain and distribute malicious intent throughout these boards. This has caused some boards to become so bad that people just cringe at the idea of going there. Unfortunately, good information gets crushed under the weight of mean spirited individuals. Some of these other boards have moderation in NAME only, with little or no supervision. Here on CPF, we know that the mods and admins CARE about the quality of this forum. We may not always agree with a particular decision or policy, but at least they are doing their best to keep this a place of interest and family friendly. For that I thank them for their continuing service to this community. This latest policy is an attempt to keep moderation and administation on a successful par with changing trends. To be effective, they must have updated standards to meet these new challenges on a forum such as this.
    As far as the underground is concerned, I think this was an excellent idea by Sasha in an effort to depolarize and shield the main cpf board. it's like the bartender who says "take your problems outside guys". It provides a venue to speak your mind without spreading ill will amongst the primary community above. While there maybe a few knockdowns in the underground, I think it helps members get things in the open instead of appearing in an upstairs thread.

    Again my thanks to all who try to keep this a place where we WANT to visit.

    Good job all! and thanks Bernie!
    The only light I need now is the "light at the end of the tunnel".....

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    All very good points and very true .I in my upgrading service of the Gladius Night-OPS I had a troll on my thread and it make all the positive effort put to an end .No thanks to KEN J GOOD.There is a troll if ever there was one and the moderators did nothing to help even after I asked for something to be done and they know who they are .one main reason I do not frequent the forum any more .but I had to say my peice and I would like to say more but it could be a waste of time and only few will agree and some will disagree. after reading this and It's all good as long as you don't go up against someone with some forum influence like "KJG" or someone with bigger bussiness agenda's .so please be very careful who you go up against.you will be given the cold shoulder. if it's the wrong person and you will be blamed for saying what might be true but offends the wrong person.censorship is alive and well.Im sure this will also be the last of my membership.please think before you post .be careful.THANK YOU TO ALL THAT SUPPORTED MY EFFORTS TO FURTHER THE CAUSE-MORE LIGHT
    GLADIUSX1

  21. #81

    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Good luck with this. I don't know what it is that otherwise normal posters will respond to trolls. OK, I've done it myself elsewhere. Even the small board, The Church of Groove, that I seem to have inherited seems to get this from time to time. Though I took a chance with the last poster that started trolling and reinstated him. I expected to have to ban him again but so far ...
    Last edited by gwbaltzell; 11-24-2007 at 07:17 PM. Reason: typo

  22. #82
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Quote Originally Posted by GLADIUSX1 View Post
    All very good points and very true .I in my upgrading service of the Gladius Night-OPS I had a troll on my thread and it make all the positive effort put to an end .No thanks to KEN J GOOD.There is a troll if ever there was one and the moderators did nothing to help even after I asked for something to be done and they know who they are .one main reason I do not frequent the forum any more .but I had to say my peice and I would like to say more but it could be a waste of time and only few will agree and some will disagree. after reading this and It's all good as long as you don't go up against someone with some forum influence like "KJG" or someone with bigger bussiness agenda's .so please be very careful who you go up against.you will be given the cold shoulder. if it's the wrong person and you will be blamed for saying what might be true but offends the wrong person.censorship is alive and well.Im sure this will also be the last of my membership.please think before you post .be careful.THANK YOU TO ALL THAT SUPPORTED MY EFFORTS TO FURTHER THE CAUSE-MORE LIGHT
    GLADIUSX1
    This, my friends, is a perfect example of what we are trying to do away with here on CPF. Gladiusx1 has been banned for 2 weeks for this post.

    Now... that may seem excessive and/or extreme. However, there is a history with Gladiusx1... a history that went on behind the scenes. Prior issues with Gladiusx1 were dealt with through private messages and Gladiusx1 was advised several times (more than 3) to chill out. Time was taken several times (more than 3) to try to explain to Gladiusx1 why and how the decisions that were made by the staff were made.

    So while this one post and the subsequent banning may seem extreme, for us (the CPF staff), it is the last straw on a haystack that is higher than most are permitted.

    Thank you Gladiusx1 for providing us with an example of what we are trying to get a grip on here... you're still banned though. See you in 2 weeks.

  23. #83
    Flashaholic Taboot's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    The bitterness and negativity I see from time to time is inexcusable. We're talking flashlights(etc.) here.

    My regards to the moderators...

    CPF is the best forum of any kind that I've seen in my years of...... "forumning".

    Regards,

    T

  24. #84

    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    I just want to add my support for your efforts, Sasha and Bernie (and the others). I have had enough administrative experience to understand how difficult this sort of thing is. And how your motives can be misunderstood.

    On occasion, privacy issues and respect for certain individuals who have exhibited disrespect toward others, for various reasons, may prevent a full explanation for disciplinary actions to the "membership" as a whole. That places an administrator in a difficult and uncomfortable position. My impression is that you have defined the line between tolerance and protection pretty well.

    It is a shame that we cannot be self-policing. I really believe that, in general, very few individuals would engage in trolling or rude behavior if the exchanges were face-to-face. I try to envision speaking directly to an individual when writing anything. Saying something behind the veil of anonymity and at a distance that you would not speak to someone in person is...well, just not very admirable.

    Best wishes,
    - Bill

  25. #85
    Flashaholic* 3rd_shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    Stephen,

    I'm glad you've taken the time to read and re-read and properly understand what we are trying to accomplish here. I was a bit worried by your post on another board.... calling Bernie a troll and "We're Not Gonna Take it!"... (Crank it... right?)... and don't forget the Metallica Justice for All album of 1988. So do you think you'll be revising your post there now to reflect your new found revelations? While we won't be taking into consideration posts on other forums when we as the collective staff decide to name someone a troll on CPF, perhaps we should consider those posts when trying to decide whether or not we will take serious what that person is posting here.

    And thank you for letting me know that this forum has so much potential. Again, I was a bit worried what with the uncomplimentary things that you have to say about me, my staff and CPF itself on other forums. I know that with the help of my staff and the others who have posted so positively in this thread that we won't have any problems reaching that potential and beyond... once we weed out those who add nothing and "aren't gonna take it!".... (Crank it!)
    Why not try out the freedom of speech thing there sometime?
    It's not an exclusive privelege to me or the top brass there (theoretically).
    I would like to see you, or anyone else in question there if ya ever get time to go there.

    Next question.
    Do we all have a reasonable amount of freedom of speech here and there?
    I'm asking this one American to another.
    Idunno.

    As far as cpf staff in general goes, I have never had an issue with any members there-of in person, or when it comes to doing business with to this day.
    This another reason I want to meet you in person someday.

    It's just so different in person than just via text communication.

    If ya want a piece of me for what I said elsewhere, then please do come right on over there for it.

    Failing that, I have a good email address and my private messaging is still open here and on other forums on the net.
    Thank you.

    Stephen.

  26. #86
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Is complete freedom of speech really so desirable? I do not think so. While it is true that you can't often say what you really wanted to in case of conflict in a controlled or moderated environment like CPF, the same control and moderation has some very important roles to fulfill:

    1) it protects those who are less aggressive, less loud and demanding. They can have their say, too
    2) it ensures the quality of the content and the focus of the board
    3) it helps establishing a climate that opens the door for others, too, like minors and families
    4) it controls conflict, making the board more enjoyable to read and serve its purpose better

    Sure, conflict control may seem like suppressing "truth" (whatever that is) or opinion, but reality is that a bulletin board is not your real life and serves you better without conflilct while it concentrates on the task at hand. Only very few members do appreciate conflilct, bath in it. Most of them are trolls anyway. The big majority can well live without it.
    If you look at a lot of threads on FNF you see conflict, bickering and hatred in an almost organized campaign against this board. When looking at the success of FNF it seems only few flashaholics do appreciate such an atmosphere.
    And besides, this "freedom of speech" there only exists in theory, as we have seen.

    IMHO "freedom of speech" is a very empty and meaningless phrase in the way it is used in those discussions. It does not consider the reality on discussion boards and can't really make a point. It is just a "cheap shot attack" without substance.

    bernie


    P.S.: oh and Stephen, it seems you have missed an important point. While you have of course the freedom to be "pro CPF" on CPF and "anti CPF" elsewhere (meaning on FF, FNF and what do I know where else) and while you won't be moderated for this here (talk about freedom and tolerance, hm?), your credibility goes down the drain. Who do you think will take whatever you have to say seriously any more? Could you possibly have caused yourself harm and damage? I sure think so.
    All the freedom of speech you enjoyed probably ruined your reputation with most of those flashaholics who happen to read other boards.
    There is a type of perfection that transcends the quest for lumens. Buying a $250 1-cell light for "lum factor" is like buying a $250 single malt Scotch for the alcohol content.
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    It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black.
    My shoes are too tight. But it doesn't matter, because I have forgotten how to dance.

  27. #87
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    P.S.: oh and Stephen, it seems you have missed an important point. While you have of course the freedom to be "pro CPF" on CPF and "anti CPF" elsewhere (meaning on FF, FNF and what do I know where else) and while you won't be moderated for this here (talk about freedom and tolerance, hm?), your credibility goes down the drain. Who do you think will take whatever you have to say seriously any more? Could you possibly have caused yourself harm and damage? I sure think so.
    All the freedom of speech you enjoyed probably ruined your reputation with most of those flashaholics who happen to read other boards.
    Agreed 100%!

    Went to FNF once for about 10 minutes. Don't need to go there again.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Syniosbeam by Enderman

  28. #88
    Flashaholic* TITAN1833's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Is complete freedom of speech really so desirable? Absolutely not,one word comes to mind..Anarchy!
    Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
    That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have
    their shoes.

  29. #89
    Administrator Greta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    Bernie brings up a good point. The assumption is that your posts on other sites are only read by administrators and moderators from CPF and that they are the only ones you lose credibility with. You should probably think that one through a few more times...

    Did I use this thread to bait some of you? Let's just say that I didn't pass up the opportunity not to. But reality is that you all did exactly as I knew you would. I sent a few hundred (more likely a few thousand, overall... as CPF averages around 2500 members logged in daily) potential members to FNF. It was then up to the existing members and management of that site to "grab" and keep those members.

    However, as I knew would happen, that opportunity was passed up for the opportunity to show some true colors and to dig up old news that has long since been debunked and/or forgotten and to fling around a few new bits of misinformation and basically, simple sour grapes. Legal threats have been made where there is no legal leg to stand on. Not by FNF, at least. However, my attorneys have looked things over and have assured me that I have a very nice leg to stand on should I choose. I do not. Truth is, I really don't give a damn. FNF is not now nor will it ever be a competitor of CPF.

    But I digress. FNF had the opportunity... I handed it over on a silver platter. They blew it all on their own. All I had to do was sit back and watch the implosion... starting with a post in the "Welcome" thread calling CPF'ers "lapdogs"...

    "Freedom of speech" works both ways. You're free to say what you want... I'm free not to listen to it. FNF seems to promote the "say what you want" side of that freedom. CPF promotes the "don't have to listen to it" side. The majority of CPF members like that. You haven't gotten that yet? You make the assumption that certain "freedoms" have been restricted on CPF because I and I alone (or with the assistance of just a few other staff members) have decided it should be so. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Things are the way they are because of A LOT!!! of input from members through email, PM, and the self-moderating that they themselves have been given the freedom to express.

    Take your bitter blinders off and look around you. CPF is full of wonderfully brilliant members with much to offer. And they give it freely. Enjoy it instead of trying to think up new ways to destroy it. I think if you change your perspective, you might just see things in a different light...

  30. #90
    *Flashaholic* Marduke's Avatar
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    Jun 2007
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    Default Re: Announcement regarding the species TROLL

    What makes the trolls so undesirable IMO from the start isn't necessarily their attitude (which in itself is often deserving of moderation/banning), but that they generally spread misinformation. People come here to discuss what can be a VERY technical hobby, and they rely on others to give them correct (and hopefully unbiased) information. The big problem arises when you confront a troll about their (purposeful?) misinformation, then the bad attitude comes into play and no further good can come of that thread.

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