New Technology Allows Reduced Output w/Battery Drain!

Was just over at BrightGuy! and saw an ad for the NovaTac EDC 120P. It reads:

The light output on the 120P is automatically reduced to preserve the battery as it runs down.

What a singularly innovative feature! A light that actually decreases its light level as the battery drains! I don't know about you, but if this is actually true, I've got to have one. I tell you, every time I think they can't possibly come up with anything new, they go and come up with features like this. (My father claims that his old incandescent flashlights out in the Southwest Pacific during the war had a similar feature but, of course, he also claims to have had a flashlight years ago that had two power levels! Yeah, right.)

Anyway, I can't wait to see reviews on these lights.

Confederate said:

Was just over at BrightGuy! and saw an ad for the NovaTac EDC 120P. It reads:

The light output on the 120P is automatically reduced to preserve the battery as it runs down.

What a singularly innovative feature! A light that actually decreases its light level as the battery drains! ....

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I think they are in litigation now with Mag because Mag claims a patent on this technology.

Confederate said:

Was just over at BrightGuy! and saw an ad for the NovaTac EDC 120P. It reads:

The light output on the 120P is automatically reduced to preserve the battery as it runs down.

What a singularly innovative feature! A light that actually decreases its light level as the battery drains! I don't know about you, but if this is actually true, I've got to have one. I tell you, every time I think they can't possibly come up with anything new, they go and come up with features like this. (My father claims that his old incandescent flashlights out in the Southwest Pacific during the war had a similar feature but, of course, he also claims to have had a flashlight years ago that had two power levels! Yeah, right.)

Anyway, I can't wait to see reviews on these lights.

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Did you leave out the <joke>.....</joke> or J/K or something? Are you serious?

You're right, dimming as the battery goes is not exactly marketing genius, but the 120P has been out for months now, and it's a very popular light, few people dislike it. I would have one if it were <$100.

I think you give this feature a bit too much credit. First, it is now thought to be better for regulation to be as FLAT as possible for as long as possible. So a continuous decrease in the draw is not a good feature but a lack of proper regulation. That was the situation with old lights.

But - some flashlights do have the following feature: as electricity declines below the flat regulated level, it may jump to the next (pre-programmed) level (but still a flat level).

To me this is a feature of debatable utility - better to have some warning (like a blinking that appears from time to time) that battery life is approaching its end. Otherwise, how would the flashlight know whether it is better for your needs to ramp down in output but last a bit longer, vs. keep the FLAT output at its original level for as long as possible?

For example, maybe you are in a tactical situation, and for the light to ramp down on its own (when it would have had some time, even if only a little bit, that it could have stayed on the higher level) could be the difference between life and death. A rare situation, I know, but just to make the point.

If you had the low battery warning, you could yourself choose to simply ratchet down the light output by one notch, but then only if it made sense for your situation at that time.

So - chalk this feature up to being a gimmick more than a really useful feature. There are many such in the flashlight world, things that sound neat but are in the end not very useful gimmicks that try to make one light sound different than another.

LOL. Does the the 120T do the same thing? If so, I don't think it should be able to be classified as a tactical light if it might ramp down on you at the wrong moment.

I prefer a constant output until the battery is about dead, then a quick drop off. As long as you start with a fresh cell you know how much time you have until you're out of juice.

I can't believe they are advertising the negative aspect that has been a huge drawback with flashlights for the past 100 years!!

I like this feature of the Novatacs and the old HDS's when using protected RCR123's. As soon as the light steps down I change the battery. It helps the longevity of the battery because I am changing and recharging them before the protection circuit kicks in.

Wow man, like whee! I feel like Dennis Hopper in Apocalypse Now!
Man that's cool Techno jive. Battery drain and less output.......damn

Depending on how this is implemented and the definition of 'reducing output with battery drain', it can be a great feature. A gradual decrease over the life of a battery, BAD. Having flat regulation throughout 90%+ of the battery's life, with a drop to something like only 5% of maximum output once the battery has reached less than ~10% capacity, GREAT design. This is a great concept for multiple reasons, for one you don't get caught with a dead light with little or no warning and it will still give you some low output for awhile. It is also a good idea for any LiIon cells being used that are not protected, as it serves as a warning to not overdrain the cell. I know this thread is meant tongue-in-cheek, but if they actually designed it that way then I think that is a great feature. Unfortunately from a review I've seen on this light, it is basically decreasing in multiple steps as the cell's capacity drops, which I don't see as an attractive feature, and isn't much different than just a gradual 'slope' decrease in brightness.

Oddjob said:

I like this feature of the Novatacs and the old HDS's when using protected RCR123's. As soon as the light steps down I change the battery. It helps the longevity of the battery because I am changing and recharging them before the protection circuit kicks in.

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Please forgive me but I thought it was always good to use your battery till it was near dead before recharging it? Again I'm one of those horrible "buy the product, then figure out how it works later/don't read the fine print" person. But I must say, as I love my NovaTac, and the new HDS is a distant cousin(twice removed) then I'll be happy with the step down mode in my new torch!


Mayo

FrogmanM said:

Please forgive me but I thought it was always good to use your battery till it was near dead before recharging it?

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That was for NiCad batteries. Fast forward 15 years, and that is no longer the case.

:candle:I am but a grain of salt in a sea of intelligence. Thanks for the enlightenment:wave:


Mayo

Marduke said:

That was for NiCad batteries. Fast forward 15 years, and that is no longer the case.

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My cordless drill is still nicad. :sigh:

double post

Confederate said:

The light output on the 120P is automatically reduced to preserve the battery as it runs down.

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Great topic! I have to agree with the people who says this is a positive feature. With other lights, you usually don't get enough warning before the light goes out, because their circuit completely drains the battery. A big NO-NO in my books. :shakehead

However this Novatac 'step-down' feature gives the user ample time change batteries or get out, and is a microprocessor controlled regulation.
When there's approx. 5% juice left, the light's 120 Lumen is precisely halved to ~60Lu. It will stay at 60Lu until the battery can't sustain it, before it halves again (30 Lumen). And because your eyes perceive light intensity, logoramithically, you won't even notice that much of a drop in brightness.

All in all, I think Novatac has hit on a winner, with this microchip controlled regulation - it's semi-regulated, which is more suited for tactical operations, and gives the user ample warning before battery dies.

FrogmanM said:

Please forgive me but I thought it was always good to use your battery till it was near dead before recharging it? Again I'm one of those horrible "buy the product, then figure out how it works later/don't read the fine print" person. But I must say, as I love my NovaTac, and the new HDS is a distant cousin(twice removed) then I'll be happy with the step down mode in my new torch!


Mayo

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According to what I have read on the forums, allowing protected litium-ion rechargeables to drain until the protection circuit kicks in can decrease it's number of charging cycles. It won't hurt to recharge cells that are not completely depleted and actually is preferrable to do this. If I am wrong I hope someone corrects me but I think I remember reading it in one of Silverfox's posts about litium-ions.

xiaowenzu said:

When there's approx. 5% juice left, the light's 120 Lumen is precisely halved to ~60Lu. It will stay at 60Lu until the battery can't sustain it, before it halves again (30 Lumen).

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Are you sure that is how it behaves? From looking at the runtime chart in this review, it's much different than cutting output at 5% of cell capacity - http://www.light-reviews.com/novatac_120p/review.html Did you mean 50% capacity, not 5%? Because it looks like it halves the output at around 50% of the cell's capacity. I would still rather see a light that gave flat regulation until the capacity hit around 10%, then dropped to a low regulated output for an extended 'emergency' level of light. If this was a single mode light, I might find the stepping down of regulated levels more attractive. But with a multi-mode light like this if you want a 50% or 25% output level, whether it be because of runtime or just the amount of light you desire, then simply use that output level. I'd hate to be forced into 50% or 25% output by the circuit design when there's still a lot of cell capacity left.

mmmflashlights said:

Are you sure that is how it behaves? From looking at the runtime chart in this review, it's much different than cutting output at 5% of cell capacity

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Yep it's for sure. When you look at the ~35 min mark which is almost the limit of the battery life for the novatac, it simply drops to 50% of luminosity. It will then go to 1hr 40min before getting halved again. So all in all, it provides about 2:30 Min of useful light, which is quite impressive. :thumbsup:

xiaowenzu said:

Yep it's for sure. When you look at the ~35 min mark which is almost the limit of the battery life for the novatac, it simply drops to 50% of luminosity. It will then go to 1hr 40min before getting halved again. So all in all, it provides about 2:30 Min of useful light, which is quite impressive. :thumbsup:

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Yes I did see that from the runtime chart, I was talking about what you said about it dropping at 5% battery capacity. As I asked in my last post, I take it that you meant 50%, not 5% (obviously it's dropping at 50%)?

Anyway, it is a nice light but I don't like the way it steps down in the manner it does when half the cell is still unused. If 15 lumens or less is considered useful for the situation that the light is being used for, then runtime could probably be 15 hours+, just set it to that output. But if you need that 120 lumens, I'd hate to have a light that couldn't even allow that output with a cell at under 50% capacity.

Well, from the interpretation of the graph, it appears that 32 min mark is about almost the limit of the light, with only a few percentage of power remaining in the battery. Yes, you are right it steps down to 50% brightness at that time, so therefore it is able to go the EXTRA 1:40 min... and so on. Well, the increments is not detailed enough on the graph to see properly, but one would estimate about 5-10% of batt life remaining before the controlled step down. All in all, I think the regulation of the Novatac is very graceful. :twothumbs