Iraqi Soldiers Surrender

Did anybody catch this little news item yet?

SADDAM'S SOLDIERS SURRENDER

from the Sunday Mirror in the UK.

"The British guys on the front-line could not believe what was happening. They were on pre-war exercises when all of a sudden these Iraqis turned up out of nowhere, with their hands in the air, saying they wanted to surrender.

"They had heard firing and thought it was the start of the war.

"The Paras are a tough, battle-hardened lot but were moved by the plight of the Iraqis. There was nothing they could do other than send them back.

And this surprises anyone because....??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Doesn't anyone remember the Gulf War? How the supposed best of the best of the Iraqi Army threw down their rifles and threw up their hands and fell at the feet of our troops? Oh ya... that's right. They think we're scum and they don't want us in their country and they don't want us to come and rescue them from the dictator who is oppressing them... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif ... I forgot that these people are perfectly content with their lives and we have no right to impose our will on them. Yeah... they don't want us there... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Amazing.

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Sasha said:
And this surprises anyone because....??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Doesn't anyone remember the Gulf War? How the supposed best of the best of the Iraqi Army threw down their rifles and threw up their hands and fell at the feet of our troops? Oh ya... that's right. They think we're scum and they don't want us in their country and they don't want us to come and rescue them from the dictator who is oppressing them... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif ... I forgot that these people are perfectly content with their lives and we have no right to impose our will on them. Yeah... they don't want us there... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

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i've never thought it was the PEOPLE that didn't want help/assistance. it's
their government that doesn't want us there, because they'd be out of "jobs"
and such.

imho, it's rarely the people of the country that are the "enemy" though you
still have to watch your back, i'm sure.

leddite,

There are numerous threads here in the Cafe where some have insisted that the Iraqi people hate us and don't want our help and everyone in the entire country is our enemy. What people don't seem to realize is that for the most part, the Iraqi people don't know anything other than what their government tells them. So is it really their fault if they hate us and if they don't want us around? As far as they are concerned, what they have now is the lesser of the evils. But on the other hand... looks like it's not that way at all now, is it? Looks like they kinda WANT us around...

These guys were obviously trained by the French.

[ QUOTE ]
Sasha said:
leddite,

There are numerous threads here in the Cafe where some have insisted that the Iraqi people hate us and don't want our help and everyone in the entire country is our enemy. What people don't seem to realize is that for the most part, the Iraqi people don't know anything other than what their government tells them. So is it really their fault if they hate us and if they don't want us around? As far as they are concerned, what they have now is the lesser of the evils. But on the other hand... looks like it's not that way at all now, is it? Looks like they kinda WANT us around...

[/ QUOTE ]

why accept the lesser of two evils? let cthulhu into your heart (and
mind and soul and body and your house and your neighborhood and town and
.... yargh ooga booga snargle!) ;>

yeah. well, it's the same here. the people believe what the government
tells them, or let's them believe. we're supposed to believe that they
are ALL the bad guys, they all hate us, and are DANGEROUS and must die. we
keep getting told they have Weapons of Mass Destruction and are going to
destroy the whole world. bah. i'm pretty sure the common person right now
is fully "convinced" that iraq equates to 9/11 100%. hah.

personally, i wish Bush and company would just tell it like it is, and
stop trying to spin the situation to get our approval to strike pre-emptively.
if they have a really good reason, tell us, and do it. they shouldn't
obfuscate the situation, or manipulate US into it. we're supposed to be
the good guys, but we sure aren't acting that way, imho.

Too true Sasha. People in this country can't seem to fathom tha fact that elsewhere governments do things that would cause an outrage here. Folks need to keep in mind that the "officials" overseas are in charge of, running, or at least heavily influence ALL of the media. Anyone ever heard of "State Run Television"? If the proptesters here could see what is actually written in their papers and broadcast to the people I'm sure they would be amazed. It is hard to believe unless you've actually seen it for yourself, its stupid to think otherwise just because it doesn't happen here.

Go to Iraq and give those folks some semblence of freedom, and food, and the ability to speak their mind without worrying about being snatched off of the street while walking to work or having your family raped and tortured for your beliefs/ideals and see what they think then.

[ QUOTE ]
yeah. well, it's the same here. the people believe what the government
tells them, or let's them believe. we're supposed to believe that they
are ALL the bad guys, they all hate us, and are DANGEROUS and must die. we
keep getting told they have Weapons of Mass Destruction and are going to
destroy the whole world. bah. i'm pretty sure the common person right now
is fully "convinced" that iraq equates to 9/11 100%. hah.

personally, i wish Bush and company would just tell it like it is, and
stop trying to spin the situation to get our approval to strike pre-emptively.
if they have a really good reason, tell us, and do it. they shouldn't
obfuscate the situation, or manipulate US into it. we're supposed to be
the good guys, but we sure aren't acting that way, imho.

[/ QUOTE ]


leddite,

The information is out there for anyone to find it. If someone in this country doesn't know, it's their own fault and not that of the government. Hell, just turn on CNN or FoxNews and you'll know it all. In this country, if someone is ignorant of the facts, it's their own fault and not that of the government. I honestly don't know how you can compare us to a country like Iraq in that aspect. That's really kinda... well... ignorant.

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2dogs said:
These guys were obviously trained by the French.

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gifyou got that right brother!

Hey guys,

For the past few weeks Iraqi troops have been deserting all along the Kurdistani frontier, Even crossing minefields to do it! Kurdish opposition forces keep telling the media that the deserters all tell the same story they are sent out without adequate food and supplies they all hate Saddam (this includes Officers and members of the Republican Guard) and that most of the troops plan on sitting the war out and surrendering as soon as they recieve word of invasion by US forces or of the capture or elimination of Saddam. The Kurds are stating that the only forces that they really fear may put up fierce resistance are the Al Quaeda trained, Saddam funded terrorist cells ( I believe they call themselves Al Islam) in the mountains of Northeastern Kurdistan. They report that reinforcements and supplies arrive from Baghdad to these camps daily in plain view of their observation posts. And the Touchy Feelies keep saying there are no direct ties of Iraq to terrorists! These camps are even known to be run by some of the same Afghani veterans that ran Al Quaeda training camps back in their homeland.

Later,
TSG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TSG,

You must be misinformed. They are all lieing sacks of... well, you know. This couldn't possibly be true! I mean... do you realize what you are so irresponsibly implying?!?! My GOD man!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif... It would mean that President Bush might be ... *GASP*... justified!!!... Run for your lives!!!!

Sasha Said "Hell, just turn on CNN or FoxNews and you'll know it all. "

ROFLMAO.. FoxNews? CNN? You gotta be kidding. I haven't had a laugh like that in years!!!

You ain't going to find out Shi* from CNN or FauxNews that doesn't come directly from the Whitehouse or one of the rightwing think tanks.

Did FauxNews cover the NSA spying on the UN security council members? Did they cover the FORGED documents presented by Colin Powell to the UN regarding Iraq's attempts to procure nuclear equipment from Niger? Did they report the Plagiarized documents that Powell used in his speech to the UN last month? Did they mention the escalation of Sheik whatshisname from 10th on the most wanted terrorist list to #2 after they caught him?

God, no wonder you all suck down the load of crap being spoonfed to us by the dumbed down mass media. They're having orgasms over the prospect of the ratings jump this war will bring. Remember, the Gulf War put CNN on the map.

FauxNews. We distort, You decide.

Sasha Wrote "... I forgot that these people are perfectly content with their lives and we have no right to impose our will on them. Yeah... they don't want us there

You seem to delight in caricaturing the views of the anti-war opposition and then proceeding to tear down the caricature of an argument you made up. A very Limbauesque tactic. Where did you see any anti-war people arguing that the Iraqi people "are perfectly content"? You didn't, that's where. But there's a difference between being "content" and being bombed en masse.
No one argues that they'd love to be rid of Saddam. But are they ready to be bombed to hell first?

I'd love to be rid of Bush, But I wouldn't want some other country to lay waste to America in order to be rid of him, even if he was as big a tyrant as Saddam.

Did it ever occur to you that these people were surrendering as the preferred alternate to being killed by an obviously superior force? That the prospect of 3000 bombs on Baghdad might convince a lot of people to surrender or otherwise flee? No, surrendering soldiers are an indication that they'd like us to kill 10's of thousands of their fellow Iraqi's of course.

[ QUOTE ]
PeterM said:
Did it ever occur to you that these people were surrendering as the preferred alternate to being killed by an obviously superior force? That the prospect of 3000 bombs on Baghdad might convince a lot of people to surrender or otherwise flee?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes we did and that is what we want them to do! Peter, did you know we want ALL of them to surrender?

Funny how differently people think. I won't watch CNN because I think it's so liberal. If you watched FoxNews you would see plenty of liberal thinking but it certainly is the most conservative of the news organizations because it is balanced. I guess that's why it's #1 in the U.S.A.

Do you get your news from that website you posted on another thread today? If so I can see why you think CNN is so conservative. Ted Kennedy would be a conservative on that site.

Peter,

It has become obvious to me that you have your own opinion of things and that you would prefer to live in that world and not be open at all to real life experience and knowledge. I'm not going to argue with you or even try to discuss your post. You won't listen anyway.

What's the saying? ... ah yes... "just because I'm not arguing with you, doesn't mean I agree with you"... I think I'll leave it at that. Your "arguements" are not even rational based on actual facts that we do know. But then... if they didn't come from a source that YOU approve of, then they aren't really facts, are they? Watch out for that right-wing conspiracy... it's gonna getcha! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Sasha said:
Peter,

It has become obvious to me that you have your own opinion of things and that you would prefer to live in that world and not be open at all to real life experience and knowledge. I'm not going to argue with you or even try to discuss your post. You won't listen anyway.

What's the saying? ... ah yes... "just because I'm not arguing with you, doesn't mean I agree with you"... I think I'll leave it at that. Your "arguements" are not even rational based on actual facts that we do know. But then... if they didn't come from a source that YOU approve of, then they aren't really facts, are they? Watch out for that right-wing conspiracy... it's gonna getcha! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

What facts do we know? We are constantly lied to by this administration. We "know" Sadam has nuclear material? We "know" Sadam supports Al-Qaeda? We "know" Sadam is responsible for 9/11?
The problem is that we don't know what to believe because this admin. constantly changes it's story and motivations for this war. It's a proven fact that they have lied to us about this. FauxNews will NEVER contradict the Gov't. Therefore, I refuse to be an unquestioning sheep and I get my sources from a lot of places, both conservative AND liberal.

[ QUOTE ]
DieselDave said:
[ QUOTE ]
PeterM said:
Did it ever occur to you that these people were surrendering as the preferred alternate to being killed by an obviously superior force? That the prospect of 3000 bombs on Baghdad might convince a lot of people to surrender or otherwise flee?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes we did and that is what we want them to do! Peter, did you know we want ALL of them to surrender?

Funny how differently people think. I won't watch CNN because I think it's so liberal. If you watched FoxNews you would see plenty of liberal thinking but it certainly is the most conservative of the news organizations because it is balanced. I guess that's why it's #1 in the U.S.A.

Do you get your news from that website you posted on another thread today? If so I can see why you think CNN is so conservative. Ted Kennedy would be a conservative on that site.


[/ QUOTE ]

Great, then give them all an opportunity to flee. Not too practical though, so let's kill them instead.

I get my news from MANY sources, both on-line and print, foreign and domestic. I tend to stay away from most TV news anymore as I have an attention span greater than the 45 seconds the mass media types have determined is the average. And I don't form my opinions from the spew of the Hannity and Limbaugh's of the world. (That's why all the radio shows are, and will continue to be, rightwing. Conservatives watch TV and listen to radio; liberals tend to read instead.

Regarding the site I quoted in the other post to which you referred, if you have no argument, ridicule the source. Any source that doesn't validate your pre-conceived opinion is, by definition, liberal. But answer this: Did you bother to read the report? Is it a lie? Do you have any information to the contrary? Didn't think so.

Peter,

Did you read what TSG posted? Do you think he made that up? That stuff is FACT, Peter! And don't give me that crap about providing a linked source. You wouldn't accept it anyway because then you would have to admit you're wrong. I don't have to give my credentials nor does anyone else on this board. I don't think any of us has any reason to make up any of this. You may choose to think we're a bunch of warmongers but we're not and we'd love nothing more than for all of this to be a big ugly lie so that we wouldn't have to send our loved ones and countrymen and women to war. But that just ain't reality.

Your assumption that our President is just itching to blow an entire country and it's population into oblivion is completely uninformed and ignorant. Do you know any of the facts about the Gulf War? How many actually innocent people of Iraq were killed by the coalition forces? Should we compare that to the collateral damage that Sadaam's army inflicted on Kuwait just on a lark? Don't be so naive, Peter. The objective is to enforce compliance to the UN sanctions. PERIOD!... I can't believe that you would think there's no way to do that but to start lobbing mortars and missiles at civilians.

Tell ya what Peter... how about you tell me what the real story is. How about you tell me why all of what CNN and FoxNews and the Bush administration and everyone on TV and everyone in the government and... and... and... tell me how come all of them are wrong and trying to just screw us all over. I'm listening. Tell me about this grand scheme.

[ QUOTE ]
PeterM said:
Hannity and Limbaugh's of the world. (That's why all the radio shows are, and will continue to be, rightwing. Conservatives watch TV and listen to radio; liberals tend to read instead.


[/ QUOTE ]

I see, those that hold political views contrary to your own are low IQ, lazy information consumers. And those that hold political views similar to yours do so only by diligently gathering information from intellectually developed sources.

What a comforting mischaracterization to apply to anyone that disagrees with you. You obviously think quite highly of yourself. I shant force you to waste time otherwise spent on dissertations, research and such with actual attempts at discussion since any thoughts I might have, given their no doubt low brow origin, would be below your dignity.

There, what a wonderful world we now enjoy.

LOL!!!


**giggle, giggle, snicker***....

stop! my eyes are watering!!!

but Sasha, we Americans are all a bunch of media programmed zombies, filled with lies and treachery, who cannot think for ourselves. but what are we to do? we only know what our horrible government and media tells us?


but the almighty PeterM has seen through it all! he has sources inside that tell him exactly what is happening--how our government is cheating us! the PeterM operatives are right alongside the prez...taking notes. they are mindreaders...so PeterM even knows what he is thinking!

yes, PeterM has come to save us!

and we all should know that PeterM's printed sources are so much more reliable than other forms of media....and that his european/foreign sources are all perfect and trustworthy!

how could we have missed that? remember: only believe foreigh media and stuff in print--because anything else is not credible.

i am so happy that the Great One has pulled the cobwebs from our sight, and restored us to the truth.

thank you, PeterM...thank you!

Bob<---truly...in awe.

Ps can i have an autograph?