Interesting observations about Copia 6T Explorer

Just recieved one of these little lights. I am very impressed - fit & finish are great and talk about bright! Brightness appears on a par with a SureFire P90 lamp, but the colour is whiter - about the same as the A2`s (yes, I got one of those too!). A full review of it will appear on the Torch Reviews Site hopefully quite soon - as I`d like to get my impressions of it online before the fuss about them dies down. That fuss being totally justified by the way! It even came in a quite nice presentation box, though the extra lamp and battery I ordered were squashed in there too, spoiling it somewhat.

But I noticed a few unusual things that I`d like to share with you all.

First: the charger. Neatly made thing, rather nice with the two-colour status LEDs, universal voltage too so it`ll work world-wide (they even fitted a UK 3 pin plug to mine!). But, oddly, both charging lights illuminate when only one battery is in place. Two lights suggest two independently monitored charging slots, but it would seem not. Better watch that - if what I`ve heard about Lion cells is true, I don`t think it would take too kindly to having one totally depleted cell in there and another only partly used, being topped up. At the least, it would mean the drained one wouldn`t get properly charged.

Second: I ordered an extra lamp and an extra battery. Both lamps and batteries are different. One battery has a silver label applied which indicates it is a 1400mAh cell, while the other unlabelled one suggests 1800mAh. I wonder which is right?
One lamp has a silver back portion, the other is gold. Both are 3.7 volt ones and both are the same brightness. The silver one fitted in the light just fine (neither were installed) but the gold one had two little nubs moulded into the rim of the reflector that prevented it from going in. Manufacturing defect, me suspects.
The reflectors by the way, are made of a ceramic material! Rather than fussing with e-mails and returns I set to the "bad one" with the bench grinder and carefully smoothed the nubs down so it would fit. This is how I discovered it was ceramic not metal. No damage done though, now it works fine. That one has a slightly tighter beam than the other one too. Old and new versions perhaps?

Incidentally the 3.7 volt lamp and LRB168 battery appear to be the same as those included in the SureFire retrofit kit on the WGC site. I tried them in my G2 but it doesn`t work. The lamp doesn`t make contact with the negative. Don`t have any other 2 cell SureFires that take P lamps to try it with. I wonder if the SF kit has an extra contact spring for the lamp assembly? Or perhaps it`s OK in metal bodied ones?

Finally, the tail cap`s LEDs were dissapointing. They look like the ones you`d probably find in those cheap LED-Club "Flushlights" (though I don`t have one of those and havn`t tried one) and are outshone by a Tektite Trek 2, two-LED light. Not useless though, and probably mod-able too. I don`t know what sort of current they draw, but I`ll measure it when my bench meter comes back from its annual re-calibration.
They might be dim, but they`re actually rather unusual. They glow in the dark! I noticed an odd green colour visible in the tail and on closer inspection saw that it`s glowing! Not sure if the glow compound is inherant in the LEDs or whether it`s been painted/stuck on to the backs of them (the latter seems more likely) but it`s quite a neat feature. The glow isn`t great, but would probably be enough to locate it in the dark!


As I said, a full review with photos, beamshots, comparisons and all will be added to the Torch Reviews Site soon (a few weeks I would suspect). But first impressions are very good. Too bad WGC-Shop raised their prices, but there`s always Pila. These would seem to be very good choices for those who`re looking for decent everyday-use rechargeable lights, and if my initial impressions hold true, I`d say they`re very good value too.

Thumbs up! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks for that review - sounds very promising and I'm interested to see the pics when available.

Very interesting observation with the ceramic material - does it seem quite durable? Sounds like the second one (the one you had to grind down) was either an older model or for a different model... hmmm.. dunno, but at least you got it to work!

Good job -

-Jim

Pila sent me the following

"For your information and as it might be of interest to you, the lamp reflector is made of Aluminum Oxide (AL2O3) and withstands heat of over 2000 Celcius. "


Also my understanding is that the 3.7v lamp with the 'nubs" was designed for the older Surefire 6P. The nubs are supposed to go down a bezel groove and rotate slightly to lock it into place.

I was told that the 6P kit and standard 3.7v lamp would work in a G2 by another member here who has tried it. I hope it works as I have a G2 and soon a G2Z

These sound sweet! Universal voltage charger is what caught my eye. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Let us know how the Li-Ion cells hold up after numerous charges won't you!? All the battery sites Google found tended to say Li-ion rechargeables need to be "handled with care", in more or less words.

Re: Interesting observations about Copia 6T Explor

Chris M.

Interesting stuff so far...please tell us more about the LEDs. I'm a little concerned about the ruggedness of the tailswitch assembly. Do they seem to be secured in any way inside the tailswitch, or could they easily be knocked out of alignment if the flashlight was smacked a little to hard? Do you think it would be possible to disassemble the tailswitch and fill around the bases of the LEDs with epoxy? Thanks for the reviews!

Re: Interesting observations about Copia 6T Explor

Aluminum Oxide, eh? Interesting. Havn`t seen the original 6P but I guess its bezel is different to that on my original 9Z - that one doesn`t have grooves in the threads. Not to worry though, the nubs are no more /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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The charger is a switched-mode type and is rated to work from 90 - 240 volts, 50 - 60Hz AC. I would guess that the WGC Shop folks fit the correct plug for the country of choice - as I`m not sure they use our UK type oversized chunky 3 pin monstrosities in Hong Kong. It`s likely they saw where it was going and made the necessary decision. And at the very least if they don`t do that, you can lop off what it does come supplied with and fit your country`s correct plug with no worries about voltage or frequency troubles.

I`ll certainly keep everyone up to date on the Lion cells as this is a battery I`m quite interested in too. There`s just something to like a lot about a battery as small as these ones, that will power a light as bright as these ones, for much more than an hour. Or so they say. I`ll try and get the run-time testing gear up and going tonight, or sometime soon, and see if it lives up to the claims.

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The tail cap seems well made. The plastic lens that protects the LEDs is thick with a central, internal support too. The diodes themselves are just soldered to the PCB and the alignment is not perfect to begin with, but there isn`t a great deal of space in the tail for them to move around in so I wouldn`t worry about knocking them out of alignment. The dimness I do worry about though. Once I`m done putting it through the Torch Reviews Site evaluation procedures, I`ll certainly change them out for better ones and just hope the glow-in-the-dark bit is on the PCB and not inherant in the LEDs themselves.

I believe replacement LED modules are avaliable should something happen to the original one and you`re not so handy with a soldering iron, but it seems like it`ll take a fair beating and keep on working.

-

One other little observation that I didn`t mention. I believe this one has been brought up before actually. When pressing on the combined LED lens/tail switch button for momentary main-beam use, the LEDs light up briefly as you`re pushing the button in, before the main lamp glows. Don`t know whether this might bother some people. It is actually possible to use the LEDs in this momentary mode by pushing the edge of the switch/lens so that light from three of the LEDs can still shine out. But it`s not too convenient.

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Re: Interesting observations about Copia 6T Explor

I've tried the LED switch for about a week and don't like its design. Twist it too loose, press the switch won't get the main lamp to light. Get it too tight, the LED will be on constantly. After you turn on the main lamp constantly, you have to adjust it again to make sure it's in the right position for standby mode - press hard to get the main lamp on. It's kind of hassle. I changed the LED with removable clickable tactical switch and never turned back. The tactical switch is smooth and a half turn will lockout the switch from accidental on. The clickable lockout switch is by far the best switch I ever have. I also found an interesting design on this light. I thought that they made a mistake by anodizing all thread and it would increase resistant for current. After checking the light again, I found that the thread isn't for negative contact, instead, its unanodized body rim contact directly to the inner rim of the switch for the negative. It's hard to explain and I think Christ could explain better

Alan

Re: Interesting observations about Copia 6T Explor

The 3.7v lamp with 2 "nubs" is the old version. Madecov is right that the nubs are supposed to go down a bezel groove. It was designed to prevent the lamp from falling accidentally from SF classic bezel when users replace battery from the bezel end instead of the tail end. However, I found this could make contact unreliable and in fact, I couldn't make it work with 2 different 3.7v LA on my 6P. The newer version has these nubs removed and doesn't have installtion problem. All LA from Pila are newer version and WGC told me that they "will" have the newer version soon while their inventory are still old one and it was one month ago.

Alan

Re: Interesting observations about Copia 6T Explor

It would seem that the LED tail switches are not all equal - I don`t have the problems with mine as you do. Have you mentioned your problems with it to Copia/Pila? Mine does require more pressure than the average SureFire does, but it doesn`t seem to be quite so sensitive to the positioning.

I`ll admit that I`m not inclined to use the momentary switch for anything other than the briefest bursts. It`s rechargeable, so I can afford to switch it on and bask in its warmth, whereas a 123-cell light would have me counting the seconds it was illuminated for, due to the cost of those little red batteries (or at least, how much they used to cost when I bought my last load). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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Houston, we have a Problem /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

I was beginning an informal run time test (using the older style lamp asembly) but after 2 minutes the light output dropped drastically. Battery gone already? No! The colour of the beam was a sickly orangey-green, rapidly diminishing, quick to extinguish altogether. Inspecting the bulb, it had blackened (actually looks kind of blue). The classic failure of a defective high pressure lamp - when the seal is comprimised and the pressure drops. Might be a crack, more likely is just a defective lamp. Dissapointing, worrying but I hope WGC will replace it for me - I`ve sent them an e-mail explaining things so we`ll see.

The other lamp is fine however. I`ve just had it on continuously for about 35 minutes - got quite hot but not un-holdable and the lens shows no signs of warping or melting. There was probably 5 minutes worth of fiddling with it before then. I shut it off 5 minutes ago to let it cool but on resuming the test it quickly dimmed and yellowed out. Thankfully this time the lamp hadn`t failed, it was the battery giving up. Premature, but I have a possible explanation - I hadn`t really charged it since getting it. Popped it into the charger for a few minutes but the lights went green almost right away. Probably it wasn`t fully charged, or maybe Lions need to be run-in like other rechargeable cells do? I`ll see.

Rather than making a nice hand-warmer again by running my other battery down, I think I`ll wait till the light meter/etc is set up so I can graph things and see how it goes. I`ll probably run a small fan pointed at the light to stop it getting too hot - don`t want to risk melting the lens already.


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Re: Interesting observations about Copia 6T Explor

I purchased several spare lamps for the M90. I immediatly tested all of them upon arrival One blew out as soon as I touched the clickie cap. I e mailed Wargamer and after a few explinations it is being sent back. $3.90 for airmail (4-7 days) . We'll see if they replace it.

I will purchase 2 more from Pila as soon as they are up and running for foreign orders.
I really like the M90/GL4. I use the clickie tail cap instead of the LED. I am ordering the GL2R (red led) & GL3R (white led) and a clickie cap for each. I don't really need the led's at this time but for in the patrol car the red led's might come in handy.

Re: Interesting observations about Copia 6T Explor

Life's a rough ride when you're trying to be at the bleeding edge. We want every right now. Some say wait until the product has stabilised. Product is a general non-specific brand term as this happens to most new products.

I hope everyone gets working lights promptly.

On a side note, WGC is where I live - Welwyn Garden City
(pronounced "Well-inn" "Gar-den" "sit-tee") or for those who live here "home"

Al

Re: Interesting observations about Copia 6T Explor

Chris, I've got the SAME problem as yours on one "old" version of LA while the another one didn't work in the first place. I don't have problem at all on 4 of my new version of 3.7v LA.

Madecov, you have your M90 LA blown? If you haven't got response from Wargamer (WGC), please let me know. I could call them here to push them harder.

Alan

Hey guys...is the led and clickie cap the same across the board for all these models? Can I interchange them on a M90 or a 6T? On another note, I've machined a spacer so I can run 3 123s in my M90 when I choose to. Works great.

Alan,
they responded and I mailed off the lamp assembly today by air mail . Since I had an issue with the LED tail cap I think it confused the issue at first. I did place a letter and copy of my invoice in the box. I hope that they will just ship a replacement.

Pila also mailed me several copies of a printed flyer. It's about the same thing as the web site but it is nice to have and to pass around.

Gman,
I think the M90 clickie is different. The LED caps for the GL2/GL3 are the same diameter and price. The Clickie for the GL4 is 2mm larger in diameter and $2.00 higher in price. I would imagine the same would apply to the LED tail cap.

Warning!

Just heard from WGC Shop and they won`t replace the defective lamp /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

That`s the first and last time I buy from them. In this country, if someone supplies defective goods they are required by law to repair or replace it for no additional charge. No other option. I would suspect it`s a similar situation in many other countries but I don`t know about Hong Kong.

I`ll take this to Copia and see if they can help me out. Needless to say, future Wolf-Eyes purchases (including another lamp if Copia can`t deal with me directly) will be from Pila.


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Re: Warning!

Chris, that stinks. I just mailed back a defective lamp assembly to WGC, it blew as soon as I turned on the light.

If they won't back it I wouldn't buy anything from them ever. Wolf-Eyes says the lamps are warranted for 30 days and that WGC is the distributor. I am placing an order with PILA, in fact they have the order and it is waiting until they have credit card payment available.

Not so bad after all.....

WGC Shop might have just stopped short of telling me where to get off, but the nice folks at Copia were infinitely more helpful and have arranged a replacement lamp assembly /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Interestingly they`re doing it via PH Import of Germany, their only European dealer of the Wolf-Eyes products. Wonder what their prices are like, for future purchases and spares.....?

So, anyways, I can carry on saying nice things about this light now. But I still can`t reccomend WGC (the supplier, not the place where Al lives - I`ve never been there so can`t say either way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif ). The least I can do now is reccomend to WGC that they refer all prematurely-failed-lamp enquiries to Copia and let them sort it out, as they would appear to stand behind their products as all good manufacturers should.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Re: Not so bad after all.....

Well, WGC should have received my Lamp assembly. I sent them an e mail today asking if it was received and if they where going to replace it. The web site says they are in the process of moving and that they will be down until the end of the month. I'm not real hopeful


Alan, If you get a chance could you drop them a line and ask if the Police Officer from Texas is getting a replacement /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

Re: Not so bad after all.....

WGC responded to my eamil last night. They say once thay have the lamp in hand they will determine a course of action.

Re: Not so bad after all.....

Madecov,

I'll contact WGC tomorrow to see what happen.

Chris,

WGC is only a shop that sell Wolf-eyes. They're not distributor of Wolf-eyse. If any problem happen on product under Wolf-eyes brand, you could contact directly to Wolf-eyes (Copia). If any problem on Pila, contact Pila directly. It's good that we have choices for the same product. While product quality is the same, we pick the one with better services and price

By the way, you mentioned that you have battery that labelled 1400ma and 1800ma. They're different in size while both of them would fit your 6T but with different runtime. Anyway, you should use the 168a (1800ma) for your 6T and 168b (1400ma) for your SF replacement kit.

Alan