Warrior III K3500R

HIDSGT · Nov 30, 2007

Well, after much consideration between the Microfire 3500 and the Polarian PF40 I decided to go with the Microfire. It had nothing to do with price. Even tho the MF was $1800.00 less I would have pulled the trigger on the Polarian in a second if it was smaller. It's just not practical for every day use in my line of work. Love that Polarian tho.:devil: (Polarian $2200.00-Microfire $400.00)

I recieved the MF 3500 last night and went out into the woods with both my Wolf-eyes Dragon II and my MF 3500 to see the difference since I use my dragon II at work usually. I would say that the difference between the two is truly a night and day difference.

First off I could not get over how small the MF 3500 was. At first I thought I was missing part of it then I realized it was just very small. Compared to my Dragon II It was smaller, lighter, easier to unscrew the battery and waaaay brighter and much easier to turn on and off. That twist mechanism of the Dragon II is just plain stupid and a royal pain in the ***. I guess it has its purpose for tactical reasons so it dosent turn on accidentaly but in my opinion having to twist the light is useless. Having a button is mush easier and a hell of a lot more practical.

The construction of the light appears to be quite good. I cant get over the size. Some of the guys I work with were just amazed with how bright it was. One guy said "That little light isn't going to be brighter then my streamlight". So I said lets go find a place that is totally dark so we can test them. Once he turned it on he was like "Holy crap that thing is sick!, you cant even look into it without becomming disoriented". He still thinks paying $400.00 for a light is crazy but a couple of the guys that work for me were asking where they could get one. Two each his own I guess:nana:

I can honestly say that there has been no flickering of the light before reaching full power. It reaches full power in about 15 seconds or so and is brighter then my Dragon II as well as my buddies streamlight on initial startup then both the Dragon II and streamlight were at full brightness. At or close to 3500 lumens I would say is close to accurate. I dont have a device to measure it but it was brighter then car headlights that were adjacent to us when testing the lights.

The charger is very kool and it drops right in without a hassle. About 3 hours to fully charge like it states.

Im sure in 6 months or so someone will come out with something better and brighter but I can honestly say that this light is all anyone would ever need to perform the duties of my profession. I can honestly say that I hope it does not get any smaller. The size is perfect and can be used to whack someone over the head if need be but since we carry tasers now that is unlikely and ill try to refrain from doing that at all costs considering the price of this light vs. my old streamlight. :thumbsup:

I would have to give this light an 8 out of 10. Thing is quite kool! If Polarian comes out with their 30 watt I would entertain it but I am very satisfied with this light. I also own an AE 24 which is like carrying around a small missle. My Shark II was just too big as well and is again a pain in the *** to turn on/off. I will do a video shootout when I get my camcorder fixed.

This is the company I ordered it from and it got here in exactly in (2) days as promised. I paid for (2) day shipping and it got here in exactly two days. I do like the fact that they did not charge my credit card untill it shipped. The owner stated that he likes to start the light up and let it run for a while to rule out and problems before shipping to the customer. He stated that his shipment would get in on monday and I would recieve by wednesday. That is exactly what happend. BTW, it was fully charged as well.

This was the cheapest place that I could find it as well: http://www.opticshq.com/page/Optics/PROD/Surefire-HID/FL-MF-HID-35W-K3500R

capt_hooks · Nov 30, 2007

Glad to hear you are enjoying the k3500, I have one on order should be here in a few days. I orderd from opticshq.com as well. I also liked the fact they ran the light before shipping.

Ken J. Good · Dec 4, 2007

Dave, the owner of Fenix-Store.com was gracious enough to send me a T&E model of a pre-production Warrior III.

Right off the bat, the light looks well-built and has some adjustability in the focus with a slightly frosted/stippled reflector which probably fills in the beam at closer ranges.

I asked for it to do a beam shot/size comparison to the Polarion X1 because somebody within one of these threads wanted it.

It's really not an apple's to apple's comparison, but it might interesting anyway.

The X1 is simply going to blow this light out of the water in output and color temp.

The X1 is calling out 3,400 lumens on its spec sheet.
The Microfire 3,500 lumens.

Somebody lost some lumens in there somewhere and it is not the Polarion X1. :thinking:

Just a quick toss of light over the fence into the neighboorhood will quickly lead you to that conclusion. The X1 has far more throw and far more lateral coverage at the same time.

I am not going to get too wrapped around the axle about that, but you will see the results yourself when I get imagery.

The X1 is instant strike, something I have been taking for granted. The Warrior III is billed as instant activating, but clearly it takes a while to get to max output.

The Warrior III is splash proof as opposed to the waterproof X1.

Switching on the Warrior III is much more familiar as it has it's clickable switch on the base of the light. The Polarion uses a rotary dial on the body.

The Warrior III is a much smaller/lighter than the X1 (basically a slightly over-sized mag light), far more conducive to putting in a go-bag, in vehicle storage compartment, take on a hike and puts out a decent quantity of light.

Gotta love the price. I cringe on the Chinese made front though, but that is a personal decision folks make on their own.

Overall, they are really two different products in the sense of size/power.

I will try and get outside and snap some pics in the next couple of nights.

dkoong · Dec 4, 2007

does anyone's k3500r get REALLLLLY hot??? i ran it continuously from fresh battery to empty to test run time and the thing got so hot i could hardly hold it without a cloth!!

sharkeeper · Dec 4, 2007

Ken J. Good said:
It's really not an apple's to apple's comparison, but it might interesting anyway.

Gee you think so? It's like comparing a Porsche 911 twin turbo to a supercharged Mustang GT (both which I've owned btw).

Guess which one I'd rather be driving every day and getting dinged up?

But size is the biggest thing. Not sure about the actual lumens. Let's put both bulbs in the integrating sphere...

There is definitely a warmup time with the 3500. After all it is a metal halide bulb. My conference room projector has a 300W bulb in it. I wonder how that would work in a large (12"+ reflector?)

The biggest "out the lens" killer on the 3500 is the small reflector. BUT NOTHING puts out more light in such a small package. The other night I was getting a delivery and the UPS man could not believe how bright it was.

As for heat, I've used the light fairly constantly and never really had it get hot. I've never put it down either and frequently hold it around the finned area. The hottest it ever got was after five minutes of use with the UV filter when both the UV filter and lens of the light shattered! I'm getting those replaced but I don't plan on any more than intermittent duty with a filter over the lens!

dwminer · Dec 4, 2007

"Heat" build up

dkoong said:
does anyone's k3500r get REALLLLLY hot??? i ran it continuously from fresh battery to empty to test run time and the thing got so hot i could hardly hold it without a cloth!!

When doing static tests most high performance lights can get real warm. The AE24, Warrior K3500R and the Surefire 10X will all get real hot in a static position. In normal use heat is not a problem. When doing static tests I use a small fan directed to the head of the light to cool it down. If you really want to see hot, turn the light on and place it face down.
Dave

Ken J. Good · Dec 4, 2007

Since I had a pre-production version, I emailed Dave from Fenix-store.com and asked what the differences were.

His response: "The production head starts up a big faster and the reflector is smooth instead of textured".

sharkeeper:
If I am reading you right there is a strong sense of sarcasm in your post.
Don't go postal on me, several folks on another thread asked me for the comparison both in performance and size. I wanted to have a unit in hand to speak first-hand.

I am personally thinking the size, power, form-factor, and price is excellent on this light. It's no skin off of my nose if another light fulfills a niche nicely that needs to be filled.

Customer chooses.

In fact, when the starter of this thread wanted some pictures of the X1 in hand, I provided them to assist him in making a decision between the Microfire and the Polarion X1. Based on that he went for the Microfire. I am genuinely glad to assist and he is going out there in harms way and needs to make informed decisions that literally could mean the difference between life and death.

Back to the apparently controversial comparison:

I will ignore this unit's start-up time and also recognize that the reflector has been changed. When I get the new head, I may make my comments on that system then.

From strictly size comparison I have set up a few known lights:

From left to right:

Surefire 2-battery L4 Digital LED
Blackhawk/Night-Ops 2-battery 6-volt Incandescent
Older Surefire 6-battery M6 - w/500 Lumen Lamp Assembly
MicroFire - Warrior III - 35-watt HID
Polarion X1 - 35 watt HID

Reverse order from the front:

Height Comparison:

Not a whole lot of comments necessary. Each light is designed for a specific purpose and would fulfill different requirements in my mind.

As far as heat is concerned, a Polarion PH40 (last 2" of bezel) gets to 180 degrees Fahrenheit (at the 60 minute mark) when left in a static position in constant ON is a 78 degree ambient temp. The body will rise to 105 degrees over the same 60 minute period. From there the temp stabilizes.

Take it outside and move it around a bit, lower the ambient temp a bit and you have a dramatically different curve. I was talking to one of the engineers that was part of the Gladius LED design team and let him know what my minute by minute temp curve was on various parts of the light. He told me that in static position with static air, a thermal blanket will form around the light, insulating it even more from dissipating the heat. I simply don't know one way or the other. Bottom line is gets HOT.

MikeLip · Dec 4, 2007

If there is anything that would induce me to buy a Polarion, it would be the attitude of this guy! Wow! This isn't my thread, but thanks for all the info you've contributed to it!

pete7226 · Dec 4, 2007

Ken, your comments about the output comparison make me want to get the Polarion even more, hopefully the pre-production 30 watter that will debut at SHOT will make it into production some time next year. Based on your observations I'm sure it will still be brighter than the K3500, even at 5 less watts. Ultimately, I'll probably end up buying both of these lights, with the K3500 going to work everyday, and the Polarion in the Squads trunk incase I need "serious" light. Can't wait for your beamshots. The K3500 from the pass around should arrive today or tomorrow depending on how slow USPS is and I'll post my observations.

LED61 · Dec 4, 2007

No doubt they are lights in different classes almost, but I can see how a police officer could carry a K3500 and not a Polarion.

Ken J. Good · Dec 4, 2007

HIDSGT · Dec 4, 2007

Wow Ken! Awesome. Thanx for sharring. The difference between the P40 and X1 compared to the Microfire 3500 is night and day.

The Polarian is just a far superior light for sure. No doubt about it! For me it was a personal decision based on my profession and the fact that I could fit it in my back pocket.

I did a track with one of our K9 officers 2nite after a robbery and my MF 3500 was pretty awesome I must say. It made other officers lights just vanish when mine was anywhere near the direction they were shinning. My officers could not believe how bright it was. I cant even imagine what the P40 or X1 would have looked like on the track thru backyards of houses. Im sure it would be breathtaking!

BTW, great comparison out on the field. For personal use at home or going out into the woods the MF is just no match. Your right tho they are simply two different lights and you really can't compare the two. And there is no way the Polarian P40 is only 500 lumens brighter. That is just a joke. I would say closer to twice as bright as my MF 3500. But must of what I do is at a distance of less then 50-75 feet but still there is no comparison. I would have to say that my MF 3500 seems brighter then the one ur comparing but maybe it's not?

I as well as many other board member appreciate your honesty and time you took to compare the three lights. Once again, price was not the deciding factor for me it was simply size. I really look foward to Polarian comming out with something smaller and more practical for every day law enforcement use. I will be sure to purchase from you when that time comes.

But I must say I am very happy with my MF 3500 and is really all one will ever need when approaching a vehicle at night on a motor vehicle stop. I always approach from the passenger side when I stop a car for a traffic violation and just click the MF 3500 on (which is what I like about the one-click switch) and point it flush against my chest as I walk around my crusier. When I reach the vehicle I have stopped it is bright enough to where no one could look directly into the light without going blind momentarily so I find that people just look at me to my left or right and it gives me a tactical advantage. So I guess a quicker start-up would definately be an advantage but once again its brighter immediately at start-up then any other light I have owned so to say that the start-up time takes too long for some would depend on its application. Thanx again.

Ken J. Good · Dec 4, 2007

Hey,

Thanx and no problem.

Yes the larger Polarion's pretty much took it to the MF, but that was to be expected. Here's the deal. These are digital photographic images and they really don't capture what your eye sees. The actual to the eye difference is not quite as dramatic.
I will say, I am going to fly the BS flag at least at 1/2 mast on the 3,500 lumens claim on the MF....Maybe, but I doubt it.

I am finding out that in most circumstances the camera setting of f/5 for 5 seconds 100-400 ISO is a reasonable facsimile of the light levels your eye sees.

In my view the MF did better that it appeared in the images. It would be a very useful light in a bunch of roles. It clearly outperformed the SF M6, but it just took to long to fire up. Remember I have the slower reving proto right now.

I am hoping that Polarion's smaller light matches the pedigree of it's bigger brothers and the we will be cooking with gas!

I like this MF and won't be giving it back....

HIDSGT · Dec 5, 2007

Or, the Polarian is brighter then advertised. I mean the X1 at 3200 lumens still appears twice as bright as the my Microfire 3500. Is there anyway for you to measure the lumen output for each light? That would be interesting...:thumbsup:

Patriot · Dec 5, 2007

Very impressive pictures. Thank you Ken. I used the K3500 over the weekend and have about 5 hours on it now. Just like you mentioned the start-up time to full power is a good 25-30 seconds. The greatest difference that I notice between your pics and my K3500 is the throw. The smooth reflectored WarriorIII actually throws quite well and appears to be on par with the Xenide 25W. It is not as bright as the 3200 lumen X990 and I'm guessing that the 3500 is in the 2600 lumen realm. Admittedly, the 3500 does have a very bluish beam but I have the feeling that the bulb is breaking-in a bit. I've noticed that the flickering went away after about 2-3 hours of use and it also seems that the bluish color has reduced somewhat the more that I use it. All in all I felt that the K3500 over-delivered in a few areas while not doing so well in some other areas. Of course, the Polarion lights speak for themselves and they ought to considering the price. I'm eagerly awaiting to see what's in the future for Polarion.

dwminer · Dec 5, 2007

Ken a quick question, what is the beam angle of the Polarian X1. I could not find it listed on the Polarion web site.
Thanks Dave

Ken J. Good · Dec 5, 2007

It's on the Spec Sheet in PDF format. I will put it on the product descriptions so it is easier to locate.

Collimated Light: 3 Degrees
Uncollimated: 20 Degrees

Eric242 · Dec 5, 2007

The difference is unbelieveable! I knew those chinese lumens wouldn´t be accuarte but I surely didn´t expect that. Wow.

Eric

LED61 · Dec 5, 2007

Ken J. Good said:
Hey,

Thanx and no problem.

Yes the larger Polarion's pretty much took it to the MF, but that was to be expected. Here's the deal. These are digital photographic images and they really don't capture what your eye sees. The actual to the eye difference is not quite as dramatic.
I will say, I am going to fly the BS flag at least at 1/2 mast on the 3,500 lumens claim on the MF....Maybe, but I doubt it.

I am finding out that in most circumstances the camera setting of f/5 for 5 seconds 100-400 ISO is a reasonable facsimile of the light levels your eye sees.

In my view the MF did better that it appeared in the images. It would be a very useful light in a bunch of roles. It clearly outperformed the SF M6, but it just took to long to fire up. Remember I have the slower reving proto right now.

I am hoping that Polarion's smaller light matches the pedigree of it's bigger brothers and the we will be cooking with gas!

I like this MF and won't be giving it back....

I totally agree with ken on the BS flag for 3500 lumens.

A philips, GE, or Osram Sylvania D2 capsule (these are the top HID bulb manufacturers) driven at 35W is rated at 3200 bulb lumens and 4100K color temperature.

The same D2 capsule in "cool blue" or Philips ultinon bulb for 6000K color is rated at 2600 to 2800 bulb lumens.

Now it is possible to OVERDRIVE a D2 bulb to the 50W area and get the Polarion performance coupled with the works, but there is no way a 7000K color bulb like the MF is going to put out the claimed lumens.

MF would have to go to a quality D2 bulb with lower color temp and overdrive it beyond the 35W to get anywhere near the 3500 lumens.

capt_hooks · Dec 5, 2007

I got mine in today, I am charging it and giving a run tonight. I know it is not a polarion, but I never expected it to be for the price. Hopefully it will do what I need. If not I will be looking in to the polarion.

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