Auction: Arc-AAAs with colored LED

As originally mentioned in the Colored led for the Arc-AAA thread, I have built a few units to test. I haven't made the decision to put them into production yet but I plan on auctioning some of the prototypes in a few days. This thread is a heads up notice.

3 types were made:

Nichia Red LED, 30 degree, latest and brightest LED. Latest Arc-AAA housing and electronics (same as DS and UV). less than 5 units available. Test results: nice and bright. can shine through my fingers and reveal veins and such better than any other color. Beam has normal amount of rings for a colored LED. LED fits well enough in head to produce good centering. Overall, pleased with the result.

Nichia Green LED, 30 degree, latest and brightest LED. Lastest Arc-AAA, etc. Less than 5 units. Test results: nice and bright, normal amount of rings. brighter to the eye than the red. LED fits well enough in head to produce good centering. Overall, pleased with the result.

Nichia Blue-green LED, 30 degree, latest and brightest LED (had to wait to get samples). Lastest Arc-AAA, etc. Less than 10 units. Test results: nice and bright, normal amount of rings. brighter to the eye than the red. LED did not fit into any of our standard head very well and therefore most have noticably off-center beams. Production would require tooling on CNC, special program, etc. This extra cost is a negative. Beam is brighter than any other color as usual.

The red and green are sufficiently centered but the blue-green is not. I can offer them for auction and let you guys decide. Otherwise they would stay with my other prototypes. As it is, I am keeping several of each for reference. From time to time, the military, etc request special colors and it is handy to have a reference unit I can quickly send them. The auction also will provide us market data. If a particular color did exceptionally well in auction, this might indicate a limited run is warranted.

so in a couple of days, I will put up an ebay auction for each color. I will sell them one at a time. The first set should be able to ship before christmas but later auctions will of course ship after christmas.

peter

I would really like the red led AAA but am unsure on how much my limit on bidding will be.

I'm also not sure if this is a good way of judging demand because what if the red ARC AAA sells for $100 dollars a light on Ebay and this warrants a small production run where the lights sell for $40-50 a light. Then that means someone will pay approximately twice and much for a light that will sell for less then half the cost a small amount of time later. That doesn't seem fair even considering the nature of the electronics market. It is kind of an inverse effect, ie the more money these flashlights sell for on Ebay the more likely they will be produced for significantly cheaper later. A possible solution is that a credit could be offered to the individuals who bought the light on Ebay based on how much more they spent for it on Ebay if the light does go into limited production.

I also understand that you don't want to put something into production that won't sell like the camo unit until its price is greatly reduced.

The reason I was not partial to the camo as well as the snow is that you give up durability (finish for the camo and life of led for the snow) for a feature that I don't really need.

But assuming these color leds are just as durable as the normal white (are they?) then I think I would justify the different features that they bring to the table and probably buy a couple different colors (if they go to production) because lets face it I'm addicted.

Thanks for listening to the customer.

~CPEng

I am of the same opinion. Offer them here for a "good" price. I too am looking for a red or red-orange for night vision uses. I still have my red and red-oranges from before, but I would really like to have them in a type III finish.

I realize this is a business, but you might put out an offering to see how many sign up. I need something, small and bright.

And each time I send in an order order I always ask about colored LEDs and most specifically red.

Another thanks to Peter for offering these! I refuse to use eBay, but if the red version comes available through standard means (Arc website, pre-order, or through dealers) I would snag one in a heartbeat.

bigfoot said:

Another thanks to Peter for offering these! I refuse to use eBay, but if the red version comes available through standard means (Arc website, pre-order, or through dealers) I would snag one in a heartbeat.

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Likewise, I'm afraid they would have to be made available for sale, rather than auction, if I'm going to buy some.

Regards,
Tempest

Not bad that these got produced while the LS(series) is still in R&D. Looks like I'll be needing Paypal.

Wonderful chance to a new ARC lover from China!
Want every kind each if possible,but refuse to use eBay also, prefer to pay through paypal to standard means.

VERY disappointing that you would auction these on Ebay, BOOOOOOOOOO



:shakehead

Why are people complaining about these being auctioned on eBay (or any other auction site)? All told, Peter has fewer than 20 lights to sell, if I did my math correctly. How else would you suggest he dispose of such a limited quantity of items that will have such a limited market?

Should he sell these to whoever PMs him first? How about whoever pleads their case the best, in Peter's estimation? Or maybe he should just offer his "best-est buddies" first dibs on the lights? Or maybe a lottery would be better, in your estimation?

And regardless of what (non-auction) sale method he chooses, what price should he charge for these? Retail, you say? Then I have to ask, retail of which model? And why should he charge retail (whichever retail price that might be), when these undoubtedly cost more to manufacture than the production units? After all, he had to order the LEDs in much smaller quantities than he would for production units, he had to use non-production manufacturing methods (read: hand-built) to make these units, and he had to use non-standard supply options to even obtain these LEDs.

And why should Peter offer a partial refund to the winning bidders if he eventually makes a production run of the lights? Will the winning bidder pay Peter an extra premium over and above the winning bid if it turns out that there will be no production run? Of course not! The potential future availability of "productionized" lights at normal retail prices is something that each bidder needs to take into account when determining his or her maximum bid. It's part of the risk involved in the purchase, and part of the value of the light.

If you don't want to buy these at auction, then you don't have to. You don't even have to bid on them, as a matter of fact. Nobody is going to force anyone to bid on these lights. Why the complaints?

Oh, wait, I get it. You want to have one for yourself, but you don't want to pay the (possibly) high price that an auction will command. Well, guess what? If you don't place a winning bid in the auctions, and the price for each unit is high enough, then there will be evidence of sufficient demand for Peter to actually make a production run of these lights, and
you'll be able to buy them directly from Peter at the official website, and pay a pre-determined price for them.

If there is not sufficient demand for Peter to make a production run of the light you had your heart set on, then you should contact one of the winning bidders and make them an offer.

There is a very small supply of these lights, and Peter is going out of his way to make these, at least, available for purchase. This is not something he normally does, even though many of us have offered to buy them. Some of us have even waved cash directly in his face in an attempt to purchase a prototype. To my knowledge, this is the first time that Peter has offered to sell prototype units. Even if I don't win any of the auctions, and even if I decide not to enter any of them, I'm thrilled with this development.

I know we're all addicts here, but complaining about this is not going to make it any more likely that you will be able to get your hands on one of these lights.

I say go ahead and auction them, e-bay is as good as any other venue.

Peter Atwood, for instance, has recently auctioned off a few pieces of his own there.

He also posts here at CPF periodically, perhaps he could be contacted privately to see what his experience with those auctions has been, to see if it's worth the effort to put the limited prod Arc's for auction over there.

eBay them. I would rather take a chance at owning a proto than nothing at all.

I just wanted to clarify that I think auction via eBay is a very good way of selling prototype lights, I'm just not sure that it will give good market data. You will only know how much a certain few people will pay to have a very limited edition light (if they don't go to production) which I don't think will represent the fact that I as well as other people will buy these lights at a preset price or premium. I guess if they don't sell for less then current AAA lights then obviously a no-go but what if they are quickly bid out of budget of most people that might represent the market for this light? Then you will never know how many people have bid on them.

Cyclops942 said:

And why should Peter offer a partial refund to the winning bidders if he eventually makes a production run of the lights? Will the winning bidder pay Peter an extra premium over and above the winning bid if it turns out that there will be no production run? Of course not! The potential future availability of "productionized" lights at normal retail prices is something that each bidder needs to take into account when determining his or her maximum bid. It's part of the risk involved in the purchase, and part of the value of the light.

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The premium how I would define would be the winning bid price minus the cost of a normal production light. Therefore the bidder will have payed the premium upfront to Peter for the exclusive very limited prototype. I only suggested that the premium might be partially refunded if the light becomes not so limited (ie it goes to production).


That being said I just wanted to make sure say how grateful I am to Peter for listening to the customer and making any color lights available in the first place.

~CPEng

Given the only difference between the lights is the color of LEDs being used then why not just make a handful of the different colors and sell them to the people who want to buy them. There is no development cost at this point other then just buying the inexpensive LEDs. Maybe once or twice a year put out a quick feeler as to the demand and produce the lights the next time you do a run of regular AAA. Who knows, this could add an additional 5 to 10 percent increase in sales. I know I bought more turquoise AAA then white when they were available.

Gransee said:

LED did not fit into any of our standard head very well and therefore most have noticably off-center beams. Production would require tooling on CNC, special program, etc. This extra cost is a negative. Beam is brighter than any other color as usual.

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Maybe a totally dumb idea...

From what I remember, everything inside an Arc-AAA head is potted into place.

So why not use a piece of circular cardboard inside the head ( blasphemy, I know... ) to center the LED while potting?

Seth

Well I can see myself at least trying to bid on just 1

Seth said:

Maybe a totally dumb idea...

From what I remember, everything inside an Arc-AAA head is potted into place.

So why not use a piece of circular cardboard inside the head ( blasphemy, I know... ) to center the LED while potting?

Seth

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Interesting idea Seth. Thank you. I have no problem using cardboard if it will center the LED better. Thinking about it. The cardboard would need to be thick enough to guide the LED's angle. If it was too thin, the LED could pivot in the hole. The thickness of the cardboard would likely require a change to the length of the head, which is a no-no.

peter

Good to see that there is some thought into colored LEDs.

I can't stand Ebay (the company) but the auction is a decent idea. Running an auction just within CPF just isn't a realistic option, so unfortunately Ebay is the best way to go. Too bad for me.

Any chance of getting an Amber/Yellow LED model? I'm an oddball for sure on this preference but it never hurts to ask.

Man, this is heated, eBay works for me, b/c remember....we got cpf in trouble for auctions/raffles. I'll definately keep my eye on a red one....it'l match my white one quite nicely.

Starting new thread with auction details...

peter

Gransee said:

Interesting idea Seth. Thank you. I have no problem using cardboard if it will center the LED better. Thinking about it. The cardboard would need to be thick enough to guide the LED's angle. If it was too thin, the LED could pivot in the hole. The thickness of the cardboard would likely require a change to the length of the head, which is a no-no.

peter

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What about machining a little delrin rod with the center milled out enough to fit the led? This idea goes back to McGizmo talking about using a big pen for centering, and then devised his own centering rod.