Generator Question

sbebenelli · Dec 11, 2007

I live in Iowa and it seems like we are having freezing rain a lot anymore. Threats of loss of power has me wondering if i should buy a generator. I'm looking at the Honda EU series. The model I'm looking at is the 2000 watt. Will this run my furnace without a problem? What about a refrigerator? I'm talking one at a time just to keep my house with heat and my food from going bad. The next model is 3000 watt and it's twice the money. I have no use for a generator any other time.

turbodog · Dec 11, 2007

Here is a good thread about the honda eu2000.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172648

The 2000 will easily run your furnace fan and fridge.

I'll say that during katrina we ran:
fridge
deep freeze
satellite dish
tv
2 lights
2 fans
microwave

It's got a nice bonus that the engine's cooling air (hot air) is directed down and back through some louvers. This is an excellent place to put things that you need to dry out: clothes, shoes, frozen food for defrost, etc.

If you do purchase one and have time to wait for it, www.wisesales.com is the absolute best place. Their prices are rock bottom and they ship fast. I have bought about 6 generators from them.

I have only 1 complaint about it. It won't run all night before it runs out of fuel. Now all these things are excellent on fuel, but the tank is simple a little small at about 1.1 gallons. You can buy or easily make an extended run fuel cap though. Wisesales sells them. Or you can make one with an extra fuel cap, a hose barb, and some fuel tubing.

There is one other model to consider, the yamaha yg2800i. Basically it's a honda eu2000 with a 3 gallon tank, fuel gauge, 50% more power, and 10% more noise all for an extra $200. Wisesales sells these also.

When my honda dies I will take a very serious look at the yamaha.

jezzyp · Dec 11, 2007

I have the UK version of the Honda the eu20i - I did a lot of research before buying it and it appears to be the best there is. I bought this for power outages only so considered a few other things.
Now as petrol goes bad after a few months I purchased a propane kit so I can run it off a tank of propane gas or petrol. So I have a big propane cylinder therefore plenty of runtime and propane never goes bad. Yes I could have bought the extra fuel tank and some stabiliser but if the power is off your local garage can't pump petrol! But they could exchange you a gas cylinder for cash (the card processing machines and atms are down too remember!)
Plus I can always use the propane to cook with on the camping stove. Propane in its cylinder is a lot safer in your shed then 20 litres of petrol.

If you want to be prepared for an emergency I'd consider what you will run it off and where you will get the petrol!

Theres a great thread on this as mentioned or there is a group on yahoo
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/Honda_EU2000_Generators/

sawlight · Dec 11, 2007

Here is the easiest way to look at this.
Volts times amps = watts
I had this discusion last night with a neighbor, he wanted to buy a 5000watt genset thinking he could run his heater off of it, he is all electric as well. The breaker for his heater was 40amps at 240 volts. A little math, 5000w divided by 240 volts you get 20.8 amps. Not enough to start it, enough to run it though. Start up on A/C is what hurts you.
In a nutshell, figure out what you want/need it to run, look up the amperage needed, include startup amperage and always start the highest start up units first, add that all up and multiply that by the voltage/voltages and that will tell you what you need for a genset.
Also keep in mind the number on the box is peak, not constant wattage, it's ussually a good 500watt drop to constant voltage.
BTW: I have yet to hear a bad word about the Honda gensets!!

Burgess · Dec 11, 2007

GottaGettaGenset

_

jayb79 · Dec 11, 2007

Norther tool has the hoanda line, but you have to call for pricing. I just got a catolog that shows the EU1000 for $699.99. This is the best price i have see and it includes free shipping.
http://www.northerntool.com/honda-generators.htm#EU
catalog item # is 167201-1801

MrMom · Dec 11, 2007

Wise sales has the best prices around. I spent months researching gen sets and ended up with the eu2000. For my needs it was the best all around between home emergencies and camping use. This thing is SOOOO quiet! I lost power for 1 week last October during a severe ice storm. The 2000 covers all the basics while sipping precious fuel. My second choice was the Yamaha but it does not have an eco throttle so it runs at full RPM all the time.

fieldops · Dec 12, 2007

+1 for EU2000. Worked well for us during extratropical storm Noel the other month. Quiet generator.

turbodog · Dec 12, 2007

jezzyp said:
...
Now as petrol goes bad after a few months I purchased a propane kit so I can run it off a tank of propane gas or petrol. ...

If you want to be prepared for an emergency I'd consider what you will run it off and where you will get the petrol!

Not to 1)start an argument or 2) derail this thread, but I've got to say a few things about what you wrote.

Maybe you've had bad experiences or maybe there's just *that* much difference between uk gasoline/petrol and us gasoline. However, I have had no problems with storing gas right in the device's tank (generator, lawn mower, tiller, etc) for at least 6 months (each winter basically) with no problems. This has been going on for about 15 years now.

Also, I can verify that I stored gas directly in my chainsaw's tank for 2.5 years. I pulled the rope 3 times and it cranked after sitting that long.

I've gotten a little paranoid and have started using stablizer in some of my very seldomly used items (pressure washer). But for the most part I just do with it as I please.

Now I *do* store these items in an enclosed shed. That blocks the wind from whistling by and hastening evaporate of the fuel, which leads to a tank full of gum/varnish.

In any case, yes, we do need to consider where fuel will come from. Don't forget that there's 20+ gallons in your car's tank though. If you make the little siphon hose I detail in the other thread you can insert it right into the tank.

65535 · Dec 12, 2007

I would get the eu2000 and the extended run fuel cap, get 15 gallons of gas and run it sparingly. A Natural gas or Propane powered generator isn't actually a bad idea, IIRC Propane has a higher energy per L of liquid. a 80lb tank would probably last you weeks.

sbebenelli · Dec 12, 2007

I ordered the eu2000. It was a hard tossup between it and the Yamaha EF2400iSC. The smaller size and weight is why I decided on the Honda. I bought it from wisesales. Thanks turbodog for the info.

We did servive the ice storm without power loss but I'll have it if I ever need it.

turbodog said:
Here is a good thread about the honda eu2000.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172648

The 2000 will easily run your furnace fan and fridge.

I'll say that during katrina we ran:
fridge
deep freeze
satellite dish
tv
2 lights
2 fans
microwave

It's got a nice bonus that the engine's cooling air (hot air) is directed down and back through some louvers. This is an excellent place to put things that you need to dry out: clothes, shoes, frozen food for defrost, etc.

If you do purchase one and have time to wait for it, www.wisesales.com is the absolute best place. Their prices are rock bottom and they ship fast. I have bought about 6 generators from them.

I have only 1 complaint about it. It won't run all night before it runs out of fuel. Now all these things are excellent on fuel, but the tank is simple a little small at about 1.1 gallons. You can buy or easily make an extended run fuel cap though. Wisesales sells them. Or you can make one with an extra fuel cap, a hose barb, and some fuel tubing.

There is one other model to consider, the yamaha yg2800i. Basically it's a honda eu2000 with a 3 gallon tank, fuel gauge, 50% more power, and 10% more noise all for an extra $200. Wisesales sells these also.

When my honda dies I will take a very serious look at the yamaha.

jezzyp · Dec 12, 2007

turbodog said:
Not to 1)start an argument or 2) derail this thread, but I've got to say a few things about what you wrote.

Thats fine - that's the great thing about this site - lots of expertise backed up by personal experience.

BVH · Dec 12, 2007

Propane has about 80 to 85% the btu content of gasoline and therefore, when run in an internal combustion engine in a gaseous state, produces less power.

DM51 · Dec 12, 2007

jezzyp said:
I purchased a propane kit so I can run it off a tank of propane gas...

This has set me thinking. Could you run it off domestic piped gas? (that's gas as in gas, not gasoline.)

If that was possible, I would seriously think about it. It would mean I wouldn't even have to bother with propane cylinders (lol, I'm lazy).

BB · Dec 12, 2007

Natural gas has even less available energy, so you have to derate the generator something like 20% vs gasoline--so if you get the correct (low pressure) regulator, your generator will otherwise run very well on natural gas too...

For me, I live in earthquake country--so I have chosen the storing of gasoline with fuel stabilizer (eu2000i)--I recycle the fuel once per year into my car and refill (chose winter to do this because--historically--that has been our cheaper period for gasoline cost).

So far--no power cuts (over an hour) in the last 8 years I have had a standby generator.

-Bill

PS: Should have said, no power outages over a few hours in the last ~50 years in our area...

Valpo Hawkeye · Dec 12, 2007

Bear in mind that unless the voltage off the generator is super clean (i.e. not excessive voltage and correct frequency), many newer furnaces won't run off a generator. Even my Armstrong 90%+ won't run off a Coleman 1800w generator. I'm assuming the frequency was wrong because the blower would run, but the draft motor wouldn't start.

jezzyp · Dec 12, 2007

I know that some of the Yamahas sold in the US are Tri fuel ie petrol, propane or natural gas. I came across this during my research.

So if you want a backup for your backup consider different fuels. If you want to plan for the worst then I think that multi fuel is the way to go.

Yes I agree that gas (ie propane or natural) is slightly less power than petrol but if the grid is down then any power is better than none.
Also propane is cheaper than petrol (in the UK at least).

The power from the Honda is super clean - It goes through an inverter and is meant to be cleaner than some mains. On my cheapo meter it shows the voltage and frequency rock solid. They recommend them for computers and GPS etc.

Brock · Dec 12, 2007

Valpo Hawkeye said:
Bear in mind that unless the voltage off the generator is super clean (i.e. not excessive voltage and correct frequency), many newer furnaces won't run off a generator. Even my Armstrong 90%+ won't run off a Coleman 1800w generator. I'm assuming the frequency was wrong because the blower would run, but the draft motor wouldn't start.

That's a very good point and yet another reason to go with the Honda 2000i. It is sine wave output, with a nice tight control, as long as you don't over load it. Most gensets in the sub 2.5k range are horrible at voltage regulation and wave output and can damage smaller motors and electronics, including modern furnaces and powered natural gas water heaters.

Diesel_Bomber · Dec 12, 2007

Another +1 for the EU2000i, I wish I'd have bought mine years ago.

My experience backs up Jezzyp's comments on gas/petrol storage. After a month I notice a difference in the way my equipment runs, and after 6 months I'd be lucky to get my equipment to start at all, much less run acceptably. Seems like only metal tanks will keep gas/petrol fresh for any length of time. I drain the tanks and run everything dry for storage. For equipment that HAS to be ready to go at a moment's notice, I store with 100LL avgas in the tank. It doesn't degrade like normal gas and doesn't leave a residue when it evaporates. Yep it's leaded; don't let your kids drink it, don't run it where you'll be breathing the exhaust, insert standard disclaimer here, etc etc. My cars aren't affected nearly as much, and they sit for months at a time. :thinking:

For long term outages, I'm sure everyone can guess what kind of genset I prefer.

:buddies:

turbodog · Dec 12, 2007

There's got to be *something* to this gas storage thing. I believe both of you when you say you gas ages badly, but I seem to have _absolutely_ no problem myself.

Perhaps the difference is how much the equipment runs when it is actually used? Oftentimes my stuff sits for 6-9 months, but I'll run it quite long and hard when I do use it.

Also, FYI, here's a tip from my neighbor, a certified master small engine/briggs/honda/etc mechanic who also works as an aircraft maintenance tech for vertex aerospace (and more importantly, someone who actually knows what he's doing)........ I asked him about turning off the gas and running the carb dry. His reply was if you leave gas in the carb you run the risk of it evaporating and gumming up, and we all figured as much. But if you run it dry, modern equipment replies on the gas to maintain flexibility in some of the gaskets/etc inside the carb.

The most notorious gasket that hardens is the carb diaphragm. This pulses back and forth and acts as a simple fuel pump. As it hardens the equipment becomes harder to start. Once started, the engine is turning fast enough to overcome the limited operation of the pump.

I'd love to see some hard data here.

Question: does your local pump dispense ethanol mixed with the gas? Nothing here does.

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