FILLED with water E2E shines merrily

There has been much debate in CPF over the issue of leaking flashlights. Consternation has been expressed over the disappointing performance of some of the finest lights and numerous fixes have been proposed.

Is our concern warranted? Is the issue less critical than we have assumed? Inspired by the following provocative post I decided to put the E2E/KL1 and the UK 2L to the test.


Noah Monk
newbie
Reged: 12/22/00
Posts: 2
Re: A thought about water resistant flashlights. #197527 - 03/13/03 11:53 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply

Hey guys, ALL flashlights are water resistant in my experience (fresh water). Try submerging any flashlight in water w/fresh batteries, switch it on and let the batteries drain. Even if the flashlight fills up with water (i.e. has very low water resistance), I think you will find it will work just fine while submerged and will sustain no damage. Of course, this does not apply to salt water or other highly mineralized water (such as hot springs). The whole waterproof thing is highly overemphasized. While waterproofness may in some way satisfy a perceived (i.e. not real) need, apart from underwater and/or extended use in very humid environments, there is no real use for waterproof lights.nm


TEST 1

Both lights, loaded with fresh SF 123's were fully filled with water (within limits of closure), turned on and immersed in 8" of water. Two hours later both were blazing away, apparently unaffected by their ordeal.

TEST 2

The E2E/KL1 was turned off but kept underwater as the KL1 was removed and a standard bezel with MN03 was submerged and attached to the E2E which was then successfully turned on remained on for 20 minutes, at which point both lights were removed, turned off and emptied but not dried. The lights and batteries are currently air drying and will be retested tomorrow.

I didn't have time to make this a thorough or extended test, and I would hesitate to put my most expensive lights through this ordeal, but I am reassessing my assumptions about water resistance/"waterproofness".

NOTE: Several months ago I performed a similar test on an ARC SLS1 (2AA lithium) which initially passed the test but subsequently failed and was disposed of.

Brightnorm

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif At last some sanity in the real world! Thanks, Norm for taking the trouble to demonstrate the real facts of life. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Larry

Thanks Brightnorm, that was a gutsy test. Nice to know the lithiums didn't explode as had been previously mentioned by someone, and that the lights continued to function under water.

Hmmm, how about run tests with the lights filled with water to see if the water cools down the lights/batteries and gets more run time? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Water cooled flashlights, the next mod wave? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif

-Keith

You know what? If the lights are good enough to keep water out, they ought to be good enough to keep water IN, means that we can run a M4 Devastator without the batteries shutting down so quickly with the 500 lumens LA. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just use some silicon to seal the lamp to the head and you've got a light that shines 500 lumens for maybe 5 mins before it shuts down... woo hoo!

brightnorm: try leaving the E2e on for 10 minutes when the bezel gets hot to the touch, and then suddenly dunk it in cold water. i don't want to try that on my C2, but chances are the bulb might explode.

Well that's it, I'm not buying purpose built dive lights anymore. I'll just take whatever I have here and go diving/snorkelling with 'em. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Don't jump to conclusions.... Let's see if the lights still work in a few days. If they do, great! But corrosion from water doesn't happen instantaneously. Looking forward to hearing the LONG TERM results. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Don't forget the underwater beamshots.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

the electrical resistance of aluminium oxide is very high. soon the contacts will get corroded, and if the water that gets on the reflector of the E2e is dirty, there goes the whole bezel :rollseyes:

If you have any problems with your surefire, you can contact Surefire Customer Service to explore your options. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sorry chamenos, I couldn't resist.

[ QUOTE ]
Nerd said:
If you have any problems with your surefire, you can contact Surefire Customer Service to explore your options. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sorry chamenos, I couldn't resist.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey! that's my line /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Stingray said:
Thanks Brightnorm, that was a gutsy test. Nice to know the lithiums didn't explode as had been previously mentioned by someone, and that the lights continued to function under water.

[/ QUOTE ]

2nd that! Now, send one to Seattle, hook it up to a constant power supply and leave it in the rain for 40 days... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

..."the electrical resistance of aluminium oxide"...ain't that the truth. Anyone who Tig welds aluminum can attest to that. Interesting test Brightnorm, I'm not surprised at the results. If you do it again it might be better to use distilled water and don't fill them *all* the way up, if the temps go up the water will expand and pressure will build inside the light. Not dangerous but maybe not good for the bezel seal or lens. If you do get some corrosion, I recommend an aviation product called ACF 50. It has impressive corrosion prevention/treating properties. It's $100 a liter but you can get a spray can of it for about $13.

nice tests! you are brave indeed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

afterwards, did you pour the water out of the bezal and add hot chocolate mix?

how hot was the water anyway?

I'll agree with you there, but second the opinion that if a bulb is running hot, particularly a halogen/Xenon lamp, and it's hit by cold water, chances are it'll explode. There was a leak in one of my car headlights, and it took out the bulb in that manner (was some water at the bottom of the lens, I had the lights on, and it obviously splashed the bulb. *BANG* (or rather *Tink*...*Fizzzzzzz*)), and the residue that was left behind effectively rendered the reflector assembly useless. Not sure if it could have been cleaned off, but as the lens was cracked anyway, I dind't bother as the whole thing was held together too well to easily dismantle. Anyway, not sealing the crack meant that I ended up being out a £40 headlight unit and a £12 bulb, rather than a bit of clear laquer which would have sealed the crack for another 12 months at a cost of about £0.02.

Gman..tell me more about this ACF 50. How would it work on a motorcycle. Some of the aluminum parts are starting to corrode from the salt air around here. Front fork in particular. Where can I buy a spray can?

[ QUOTE ]
tkl said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nerd said:
If you have any problems with your surefire, you can contact Surefire Customer Service to explore your options. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sorry chamenos, I couldn't resist.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey! that's my line /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, actually I think that is MY line. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon6.gif
Definitely Size15s' record, though.

Jon

Stingray,

ACF 50 (the ACF is for anti-corrosion formula) and another product called Corrosion X are the only products that will actually halt corrosion once it starts. Most others (LPS, Boeshield, WD40, etc) cover the corrosion. ACF 50 is used extensively in the aviation business, it's "fogged" into airframes as a preventative measure. I've used it for years and it lives up to all it's claims. Not only does it prevent/halt corrosion on aluminum but it does an excellent job of electrical corrosion prevention. In addition, it's far and away the best penetrating oil I've ever seen. When sprayed in airplanes it will weep for weeks due to it's capillary action.

Put some in a dish and place a bolt upside down in it. Do the same with other products and come back in a day. The ACF will have climbed that bolt much father than any other product. I use it for everthing, from removing stubborn and galled fasteners to electrical and circuit board cleaning. It's amazing how once sprayed on corrosion the oxides simply disappear. I've treated entire PCBs that were soaked in water with great results. It's not conductive and yet offers no resistance to current flow. (Most other compounds don't either, because of apparent verus actual contact area.)

The only downside is it tends to attract dust and flows into the tiniest of clearences but thats what makes it such a good penetrant. Get it at any airport or pilot supply shop or search the Net for "ACF 50". Look here for tech data: http://www.corrosion-control.com/acf50.html or here:
http://www.learchem.com/Aviation.htm

Today I checked my disassembled E2E and UK 2L. All parts free of visible corrosion. After reassembly all lights with all heads worked perfectly.

Brightnorm