Need Fenix P2D Q5 like flashlight, but...

neeande

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Jun 16, 2007
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Hi All,
I am looking for a EDC flashlight and was set on a Fenix P2D Q5 but was told by the Fenix store that I shouldn't use rechargable batteries.

Is there a similar flashlight to the P2D Q5 that anyone knows of that will take a rechargeable battery?

I would like these features:

180 lumens or more on high output.
8 to 15 lumens on low so it can last in an emergency.
A setting somewhere in between (30 to 60 lumen, maybe?)
Small so I would actually carry it, 3 inches or so.

Also, is there an easy way to translate lumens to lux, so I can get an idea of what all you knowledgeable people are talking about? I am fairly new to this stuff.

Thanks for any help!
 

mikehill

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Sep 21, 2003
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How about the P2 and L1 combo kit ? That way you get the best of both worlds :thumbsup:
 

cal..45

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Hi All,
I am looking for a EDC flashlight and was set on a Fenix P2D Q5 but was told by the Fenix store that I shouldn't use rechargable batteries.

the P2D can be driven with CR123 rechargeables, its just a matter of which you will use. when I put my ultra fire rechargeables in the lamp, it won't go to any low mode for the first ten minutes or so because the tension is too high.

however I have also other Cr123 rechargeables which will do the trick. I just can recommend to buy ONLY 3 volt rechargeables. in the end ALL CR123 cells will work but with some of them you lose the low modes.


regards, holger
 

neeande

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Thanks for your replies!

I am unfamiliar with CR123 rechargeable batteries. Did I understand correctly that a 3 volt rechargeable battery will work in all modes on a P2D Q5? Will it harm the flashlight in any way? I am wondering why Fenix said I couldn't use them in the P2D but could in the P3D (which is too big for me for EDC).

So my next questions are:

Will I (could I) harm the P2D Q5 flashlight in any way with the 3 volt rechargeables? Is there a flashlight comparable in size, brightness and quality to the P2D from another company made to use rechargeables?

If I can use the 3 volt rechargeables, is there a recommended or best brand to get?

The first good flashlight I got, thanks to reading on this forum, is the Fenix L2D (older one rated at 88 lumens). At some point I will add another brighter light, maybe the P3D Q5 or hopefully something even brighter.

Thanks again!!!
 

Marduke

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You actually won't "harm" the P2D with 3.7v RCR123's, you just won't have any modes other than turbo and strobe. There are two types of 3.0v RCR123's.

One is the LiFePO4 cells, which are a "safe" chemistry which is naturally near 3.0v. The tradeoff is they have less capacity, which translates into less runtime. They also require a special charger for the lower voltage.

The other is standard Li-Ion 3.7v RCR123's that have a special protection circuit which reduces the voltage to 3.0v when in use. Generally, they can be used with standard RCR123 capable chargers designed for 3.7v cells. These will have a greater capacity, but still not the same as CR123 primaries.

I will leave the specifics to the experts.

Also, the P3D uses totally different circuity which enables it to use 3.7v RCR123's while retaining all modes.
 

Curious_character

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Nov 10, 2006
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AW's 3.0 volt LiFePO4 batteries also work fine in the P2D, with all modes available. I measured 31 minutes to 50% output using a standard protected 3.7 volt Li-ion cell and 20 minutes using an LiFePO4 cell, at maximum (turbo level) output. The light intensity was the same with both cells.

c_c
 

cal..45

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Thanks for your replies!

I am unfamiliar with CR123 rechargeable batteries. Did I understand correctly that a 3 volt rechargeable battery will work in all modes on a P2D Q5? Will it harm the flashlight in any way? I am wondering why Fenix said I couldn't use them in the P2D but could in the P3D (which is too big for me for EDC).

I think fenix made an incomplete statement. they should have told you, that ALL CR123 rechargeables can be used but for full versatility (all modes) ONLY 3V cells will work

So my next questions are:

Will I (could I) harm the P2D Q5 flashlight in any way with the 3 volt rechargeables? Is there a flashlight comparable in size, brightness and quality to the P2D from another company made to use rechargeables?
no, there is no harm that can be done, just be aware that runtime will significantly drop. the 3V rechargeables I use have a capacity of 650mah while a panasonic CR123 primary have 1600mah for instance - this is 2,46 times more. on a test my P2D runs 27 minutes on "turbo" with the 650mah cell and about 9 hours on "low". enough for me, because I rather seldom use the "turbo" mode and I always carry two spare cells anyway. I'm not sure but I think ist rather hard to find a flashlight that can compared to the fenix P2D regarding size, quality, price, brightness and value...

The first good flashlight I got, thanks to reading on this forum, is the Fenix L2D (older one rated at 88 lumens). At some point I will add another brighter light, maybe the P3D Q5 or hopefully something even brighter.
same with me, my first good flashlight was also the L2D (Cree CE led - 135 lumens max) bought over a year ago. lately I was looking for something smaller for EDC, so the P2D was the logical choice (I don't like the UI of the P1D). I prefer the P2D rebel100 over the P2D Q5 (I got both) btw, the rebel has a nicer spill and the yellowish tint makes it look more natural in the field. it also give a better 3D image, but this are my impressions and they are subjective.

I have already set myself a limitation about purchasing new lights. I WILL NOT buy the next generation of fenix lamps/led's, unless they put at least 33% more light out than currently. that means the successor of my P2D has to be in the 240-250 lumens range and so on. the reason is, that less than 1/3 more light is visible though, but not really significant in the field. for exactly this reason I find the P3D rather inferior to the P2D - it gives you certainly longer runtime yes, but it is also 3,3 cm longer and only puts roughly 16% more light out, not enough to be considered a good value (for me).


regards, holger
 
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gnef

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neeande

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Thank you all for sharing, this is a great neighborhood!

I will order the P2D Rebel100 if that model is still available, otherwise it's the P2D Q5.

Also, it sounds like the higher the mah number, the longer the run time. Did I get that right? Does anyone know what the highest rated battery I can use and still keep all the modes of the flashlight working?

Thanks again!
 

Alan B

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neeande, Welcome to CPF!

I have been seeking pretty much exactly the same thing for the last couple of months. Have not really found it, and I have researched, bought and tested quite a few lights.

The root problem here is the forward voltage of the LED is right in the discharge region of the rechargeable 3.7V Li-Ion cells. Primary Lithium cells have a slightly lower voltage (3.0V), so they need to be boosted to power the LED. Rechargeables start out above the Vf (LED Forward Voltage), Then toward the end of their charge they drop below the LED forward voltage. So they either need a more complicated, expensive and less efficient buck/boost regulator, or they go into "direct drive" where they bypass the regulation circuit and disable the low modes.

Using lower voltage rechargeables (Lithium Iron chemistry, 3.2V) helps reduce the 'overdrive', but the energy capacity is reduced even further. Runtimes are pretty short.

One warning about using unprotected Lithium Ion rechargeables - these lights are not designed to shut down at the right voltage to protect these cells, so they can be damaged by overdischarge. This can lead to venting and fires during charging. Protected cells reduce this danger but may be physically too large to fit properly in the light. Further research is recommended on this topic.

Fenix makes two "Light Engines", the boost model (converts voltage up) and the buck (converts voltage down) model. The boost engine is used on the 1xAA, 2xAA and 1xCR123 lights, and the buck engine is used on the 2xCR123 lights. Since the 2xCR123 (such as the P3D) lights have higher voltage from two cells they are already using a buck engine they don't mind extra voltage from the 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeables. In return they give MUCH longer runtimes since they have two cells. For rechargeable use the P3D may be a better choice.

There is one slight anomaly with the Fenix P3D buck regulator. For some reason the higher voltage causes the low output to be lower than normal. For some users this is an improvement, for others not. It is about 10 lumens instead of about 30 lumens (rough emitter estimates). This seems to fit with your low level requirement better than the standard Fenix low level, so for you it may be a good thing.

For emergency runtime the benefit of the two cells is substantial. If you carry the second cell you can have a similar benefit, but you might have to change cells in the dark... A second light would be a better plan, such as perhaps the L0D.

For the last month or so I have been experimenting with daily carry and use of a number of different flashlights. These include the Fenix L0Dq4, L1Dq5, P2Dq5, P3Dq5 and L2Dq5, plus the Olight T15q5 and Photon Proton PRO. Of the Fenix models I find the L1D 1xAA to be adequate in terms of light output, and it works really well on the new Low Self Discharge NiMH (Eneloop or Hybrio) that I tested with. I like all of these lights, but the L1D is quite adequate and cost effective free lumens. It is a little less light output than your stated number, but in actual use this difference is not very noticeable. NiMH cells don't present the same risks of fire, nor do most models have problems fitting in the light (some high capacity models are larger, beware). Of course, your mileage may vary..

The Fenix 4 in 1 special is nice in that you get the Q5 bin boost light engine and two bodies with tailcaps - one each for 1xAA and 1xCR123 - plus the candle diffuser, as well as the usual lanyards, O rings, tailcap covers and holster. Also included is a threaded body cap that keeps the threads clean and holds the battery in the unused tube. With this setup you can run NiMH AA for most things, and switch to CR123A when you want that extra little bit of light, or a shorter light. Or just keep the CR123A tube, tailswitch, cell, and protective cap module in your briefcase or backpack for the emergency situation after you run out of available AA's. You can also add a 2xAA body tube which will up the output to the CR123A level and increase runtime as well, for longer emergencies when AA's are readily available (and the CR123's have run out). All in all, a very flexible system.
Good luck in your quest,:candle:

-- Alan
 

mikehill

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The Fenix 4 in 1 special is nice in that you get the Q5 bin boost light engine and two bodies with tailcaps - one each for 1xAA and 1xCR123 - plus the candle diffuser, as well as the usual lanyards, O rings, tailcap covers and holster. Also included is a threaded body cap that keeps the threads clean and holds the battery in the unused tube. With this setup you can run NiMH AA for most things, and switch to CR123A when you want that extra little bit of light, or a shorter light. Or just keep the CR123A tube, tailswitch, cell, and protective cap module in your briefcase or backpack for the emergency situation after you run out of available AA's. You can also add a 2xAA body tube which will up the output to the CR123A level and increase runtime as well, for longer emergencies when AA's are readily available (and the CR123's have run out). All in all, a very flexible system.
Good luck in your quest,:candle:

-- Alan

Exactly what I do ... works great ! You put it much better than me though :D
 

PlayboyJoeShmoe

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:sigh:

So many good lights. So few dollars.

The 4 in 1 special sounds GREAT! But I hope it's still around in months. Because I have a bit over $50 inbound from DX that I will have to send a MO for. I just got a P6L which won't make "The Power" very receptive to spending more $$$ on flashlights for some way into the future.

:sigh:
 

neeande

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Jun 16, 2007
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Thank you all so much for your help, it's very appreciated.

I will order a P2d Rebel100 or the P2D in the 4 in 1 pack w/L1D body.

I will order the Tenergy 3.0 900mah charger and four batteries and get some non-rechargeable CR123s as extras to have with me.

Then I will decide on what EDC to get for my wife, she isn't very interested but I'll fell better if she has light with her (that's another thread, though).

Thanks again!!!
Ernie
 

neeande

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Jun 16, 2007
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Wow, all that valuable information and a discount coupon too!

THANKS!!!
 
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