LEDs in the snow - Really that poor?

I've read some posts in some of the other flashlight areas of these forums recently where people are really dogging LED based lights for use in snow, and sometimes in wet environments. They say that they do not work well at all in those situations.

These posts usually end with a statement about how great the Surefire incandescents are.

Does anyone have experience in these environments with both LEDs and incans that can offer some objective comments?

I have a Fenix P2D with the Luxeon Rebel LED that I'm currently in love with, but have not had in the snow yet. I want to know if I'm going to be sorely disappointed with it before I go snowshoeing in the evening.

Thanks!

Its all personal opinion. To my eyes, Leds and Hid's light up stuff better in rain or snow. Other people see things differently. I do not think either lights up stuff well in rain. Leds are cool in snow though.

Keep in mind that LEDs have been improving rapidly, and opinions on LED's may not keep up with the advances they are making. Someone who says LED's stink in the rain, fog, snow, etc, may have been using some 40-60 lumen LED light from 6-12 months ago, or more. Had they been using a 200+ lumen LED light, they may have had a different opinion.

Lights like the MRV, Tiablo, DBS, are a fairly new breed, putting out around 200 lumens in a tight beam. They should cut through fog, etc, as well as an incan of similar power and throw.

If you are speaking of water resistance issues, then the Fenix light will be fine(Along with any light that has good seals).

If you are speaking of color rendering, then it's more of a personal opinion.

Should work fine either way. If you are used to incans, the LED will seem whiter and everything won't seem to pop up as much. The Rebel seems to be one of the better color rendering LEDs used in a Fenix so you should be fine.

FWIW I have used my 3D mag with Malkoff LED dropin in freezing rain and snow. It worked well for me with no complaints.

Also use A2, Z2 and ROP with no problems.

Technically, a properly driven incandescent light will do better, but some modern LEDs make up for their narrow spectrum with sheer output.

Don't know why, but car headlamps have always appeared dim at illuminating the road ahead in the rain.

Ie poor distance throwing.

Last year we had a very strong snow storm/blizzard and lost power. I used my Inova X0 (Tiros version) to go out and check on my parents, inlaws and sister and it works just fine for working up to their houses and back to the truck. That was the heaviest snow I have used one it.

Personally, I think they are great. During the hardest snowfall that we've seen this year, LED lights made the snow seem even poofier. This can be either a plus or a negative depending on how you look at it. When it's not snowing, things do look much colder though.

GuyZero said:

I've read some posts in some of the other flashlight areas of these forums recently where people are really dogging LED based lights for use in snow, and sometimes in wet environments. They say that they do not work well at all in those situations.

These posts usually end with a statement about how great the Surefire incandescents are.

Click to expand...

I think that those particular people need to throw out their 4 year old 1xAAA Dorcy 5mm LED keychain lights and get a REAL LED light for comparrisions.

My experience is they work perfectly fine in snow, never noticed any color rendering problem.

having just gotten back form a night hike in snow (both on the ground and falling), i will say this:

my WE Defender with 130 lumen incan drop in sucked snow, about 75 feet down the trail, of yellow light.

my NiteCore LED lit up the trail for about 300 feet and flooded the sides of the trail with light.

my FENIX P1DCE flooded the trail and the river beside the trail with light.

LEDS poor in the snow? if anyhting they are VASTLY superiour, the snow on the ground reflects all that bright white light and you can actually see MORE.

GuyZero said:

I've read some posts in some of the other flashlight areas of these forums recently where people are really dogging LED based lights for use in snow, and sometimes in wet environments. They say that they do not work well at all in those situations.

These posts usually end with a statement about how great the Surefire incandescents are.

Click to expand...

That would probably be me, or if others said the same, I haven't noticed. As for Surefire incandescents, that's not necessary. I have an A2 and I like it and use it, so I probably have been praising it in this context, but any decent incan will do. Furthermore, I will readily grant that I don't have any of the latest and greatest LED lights. My newest is more than 6 months old! Talk about old tech, it's not even a Q5! :laughing:

But like others said, it's probably all relative and in the eye of the beholder. My LED lights don't work well for me in snowy conditions. I don't know why, but the light just seems to disappear. Maybe I just have defective eyes or something. But I do like LEDs indoors or when it's dry and I never meant to bash LEDs, I just reported a personal observation because I was curious to see if anyone had noticed or felt the same.

When someone makes such a sweeping statement, you know what you should do? Go out and test it! Next time you get snow, take your lights out for a walk and try it out. If your LEDs work for you in the snow, that's great!

One of the things that I still can't get my mind around is how so many people complain about the color temperature of LED's (and I'm referring to only the newest, whitest variety such as the WC/Q5).

People complain that they are "too white" and that incans are "more natural" in showing detail at night.
Here's the deal, the suns color temperature is, at it's typical "warmest" daylight, at 5000K which is only a little warmer than LED temps of 6000K.
However, more correctly, the suns most typical "cool daylight" is at 6500K; even cooler than LED's.
Then there's incans at a temperature of 3000K.

So what's the big deal? Today's LED's are almost exactly "natural sunlight" in color, while incans are distinctly yellower and not natural at all.
For those who feel that yellowing up a beam allows them to see better at night, I don't see any reason to give up a highly efficient, bright, and long runtime LED light in favor of a yellower but dimmer and very INefficient light (dismal runtimes).
Just slap a 3000K color temperature amber filter on the LED light and leave it there permanently and you'll be right there with your "incan" light.

For my part, I have left incans behind and am not looking back. On the rare occasion when I pick up an old incan work light and go outside after dark, I feel like I'm wearing dark sunglasses at night.
I'll take a bright, white, WC/Q5 based light anyday.

That's it for me... carry on.

i think that what we are dealing with here is how different people's eyes react to the different colour properties of different lights at brightness levels just above not seeing light at all, i.e. At the edge of the throw... Snow is pure white, and snowy conditions act like 'outdoor white walls' that extend away from you indefinitely... Ive read somewhere that as people age, their eyes see some colours better than others, and maybe this can explain people's experiences?

It is a scattering issue. IIRC light towards the blue end of the spectrum (where LED resides because of the blue primary chip used to produce light) scatters way more than light towards the red end of the spectrum, where incan lives.
Now ... if you have things in your fild of vision that you do not want to see, like raindrops or snowflakes or mist, LED will produce more scatter and blind you more than incan does ... and it will deliver less light on target.
This is one of the reasons why incan are said to do better in such environments.

Then there is the focussing issue, but LED has overcome that. Just like the lack of sheer power, we have that now.

bernie

Another thing: just becasue LEDs do look white does not mean they are really full spectrum. They are just as deficient in that regard like HID or incan, only with a different quality.

yes, thats why sunsets have a lower temperature colour than midday...
Has anybody tried like, having someone shine an led torch at them from a distance through falling snow? Will the blue portion of the light be removed by scattering, leaving the beam with more of the yellow that they add to the blue to give white?

I haven't yet but that's a good idea. If we get some snow today/tonight I'll hop on a snowmobile and put some distance between myself and my crappy bluish chinese-remake LED light, and we'll try to see if it becomes less blue. It'd be good if someone with a warm rebel or Q5 could do the same.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when there is snow on the ground, the ambient light levels have increased. When illuminating something in higher levels of ambient light, a more powerful light is required.

Tom