Dereelight DBS vs. EdgeTac Raidfire Spear!

WadeF · Dec 30, 2007

I decided to take some LUX readings at 1M, 3M, and 10M to see how these two lights compare.

I started with two fully charged AW 18650 batteries, 4.20v on the meter.

The DBS has a Q5 WF 3-Stage pill installed. I will try and do more tests with some of their other pills, like a 2SD Q5 WC. Here are the results:

DBS 1M Startup: 25,900lux + 2-3%
Raidfire 1M Starup: 25,200lux

DBS 1M 2min: 25,500lux +8%
Raidfire 1M 2min: 23,600lux

DBS 3M 3min: 2,950lux +13%
Raidfire 3M 3min: 2,610lux

DBS 10M 4min: 285lux +22%
Raidfire 10M 4min: 234lux

As you can see the difference between the DBS and the Raidfire increased as the distance increased. The DBS maintains a tighter hot spot than the Raidfire (at least with my DBS and my Raidfire) which gives the DBS an edge when the target is farther away.

I'd be interested to see results from others with multiple throwers and a LUX meter if they can take readings at 3M and 10M. 10M is about as far as I can test in my basement at the moment. It would be interesting to try 50M or something outdoor sometime.

Here are some beam shots at 10M:

Color saturation removed to eliminate tint differences:

Same shot, darkened to help show difference in intensity:

Unfortunately a digital camera isn't as sensative as our eyes, or a lux meter, so the difference in the picture is subtle.

The DBS still has some room for improvement. If Dereelight can offer us coated lenses at some point (which the Raidfire has, and I think that is what is helping it do as well as it does, considering the hot spot is larger), as an upgrade, and standard with new lights, they could probably gain another 1,000LUX or more at one meter. Also when they have R2 and higher bin Cree's available the DBS will be easily upgraded to a brighter emitter for the fraction of the cost of a new light.

Some other notes, during the tests the Raidfire got noticeably warmer than the DBS due to it having much less material to absorb the heat. The DBS got barely warm, the Raidfire was noticeably warm to very warm, but not hot.

jsr · Dec 30, 2007

Great info Wade! I'd like to see how the Tiablo A8/A9 Q5 (I have no idea what the diffs are between these 2 aside from A9 has a recessed switch) and Lumapower MRV Q5. Hopefully others, particularly those with all these lights, will take similar measurements.

WadeF · Dec 30, 2007

jsr said:
Great info Wade! I'd like to see how the Tiablo A8/A9 Q5 (I have no idea what the diffs are between these 2 aside from A9 has a recessed switch) and Lumapower MRV Q5. Hopefully others, particularly those with all these lights, will take similar measurements.

I'd like to know too.

When it comes down to it, all these throwers perform fairly close. When you're lighting something up that's 700-800 feet away it's probably going to be hard to notice much of a difference. I need to get the DBS and the Raidfire out to the lake to see how they compare at 800+ feet.

Rzr800 · Dec 30, 2007

WadeF said:
"...The DBS still has some room for improvement. If Dereelight can offer us coated lenses at some point (which the Raidfire has, and I think that is what is helping it do as well as it does, considering the hot spot is larger), as an upgrade, and standard with new lights, they could probably gain another 1,000LUX or more at one meter. Also when they have R2 and higher bin Cree's available the DBS will be easily upgraded to a brighter emitter for the fraction of the cost of a new light.."

The future upgrade capability of the Raidfire seems to be a question that keeps popping up in these comparisons and is obviously one that I hope we can see answered very soon (I simply like the looks of this light and would like to 'mod it along' if possible).

machoamigo · Dec 31, 2007

Boy am I happy that I did not go in for the Raidfire, not that it is bad or not a great flashlight but because of the future upgradeability of the light.

I got myself the DBS 3SD and can't wait to receive mine :naughty:

WadeF · Dec 31, 2007

machoamigo said:
because of the future upgradeability of the light.

I wish more lights were upgradable like the Dereelights, and other lights that can take drop-ins. With LED's changing so fast I always want to check out the latest and greatest emitter.

The Raidfire is still a cool light, but I'm glad I got it at the reduced price.

Wish I got the version with the red on the outter part of the reflector though.

lightfire · Dec 31, 2007

I used these outside last night to try to get a feel for which I like better. I seem to like the Spear better because of the wider beam (more spill) and for some reason slightly better quality beam (I think due to the quality of glass). But the DBS did seem to out-throw the Spear.
I may have to sell one of them but I really want to keep both as each has its strengths. Both are state-of-the art lights. Amazing!

Zenster · Jan 1, 2008

lightfire said:
I used these outside last night to try to get a feel for which I like better. I seem to like the Spear better because of the wider beam (more spill) and for some reason slightly better quality beam (I think due to the quality of glass). But the DBS did seem to out-throw the Spear.
I may have to sell one of them but I really want to keep both as each has its strengths. Both are state-of-the art lights. Amazing!

Not sure which reflector you have in the DBS, but if you think the beam of the DBS is less than great, I'm willing to bet that you're using the SM reflector.
Slap in the OP reflector in the DBS and you'll be amazed. It turns it into a totally better light.
I bought both reflectors with mine and used the SM for a while first and noticed, like you, that the beam wasn't as nice as I expected it to be (a little "ringy"). But the moment I turned it on after changing it out to the OP reflector, the darn thing came alive and instantly became one of my favorite lights.

I'd go so far as to suggest that anyone who buys a DBS in the future can save some money and just order it with the OP reflector and don't waste your money on the SM.
This "throw" thing is totally overblown, and in order to throw as well as the DBS does, it has to use the SM reflector which gives up a lot in useful beam "quality". With the OP reflector, it's a great beam and still throws as well as anyone would want for REAL everyday use (as opposed to lighting up a tree a block away using the SM reflector with a pencil thin beam which has no real everyday use value).

lightfire · Jan 3, 2008

Zenster said:
Not sure which reflector you have in the DBS, but if you think the beam of the DBS is less than great, I'm willing to bet that you're using the SM reflector.
Slap in the OP reflector in the DBS and you'll be amazed. It turns it into a totally better light.

Thanks. I think I will try that!
I do think the glass has something to do with it as well; does anyone make a quality aftermarket lens for the DBS?

Glenn7 · Jan 4, 2008

www.dereelight.com
DBS quote - Glass: Toughened ultra clear glass lens with AR coating - what more do you want? :thinking:

WadeF · Jan 4, 2008

I know Dereelight is looking into offering AR coated lenses, but I don't think any of their current lights use them yet. With the addition of the AR coated lens the DBS should gain a bit of output.

Glenn7 · Jan 4, 2008

I just bought one of these direct from their web site [but maybe we have to ask Allan]:

DBS w/ Cree XR-E Q5 3SD LED Module

Cree XR-E Q5 LED module
3-stage of output, press and hold the switch slightly within 1 second for mode change. 100%-->50% --> 5%--> repeat. If you find a mode you like, press to lock on.If you leave on for more then 1 second this light has "Mode memory". Next time you turn it on, it remembers the last mode
Shut down at 2.7V to protect lithium battery from over-discharging
Limited reverse protection for 5 seconds
Upgradeable
Forword clicky
Smooth reflector, OP optional
Type III hard anodized finish
Using 1x18650, 1x17670 or 1x168a
Dimensions: 165mm(Length)x 48mm(Head)x 27mm(housing)
Material: Constructed of aircraft grade aluminum
Waterproof
Weight: 200-gram weight
Glass: Toughened ultra clear glass lens with AR coating
GITD switch cover
Color: Light grey
Package: Giftbox
Accessories: Spare rubbercap(black), Extra O-ring

Otherwise it would be false advertising

WadeF · Jan 4, 2008

I'll ask and see if that was recently added. Does anyone know for sure how long that has been in the description? If it was added in the past couple days, it's not false advertising if any DBS's ordered since then will come with the AR coated lens. I'll ask Alan to find out what's what.

Glenn7 · Jan 4, 2008

I purchased my DBS on the the 17th of December and I was procrastinating for about one week before that - and thats when I saw on their website that the DBS had AR coated glass - also from what I can deduct thats about the time the new website came on line.
By the way I own [and have spent stupid amounts of $ on them] and have used some very expensive torches and the DBS is as good and in a lot of ways better than most torches that I have seen :twothumbs - also add up all the extra $ I [and probably you] have spent at DX and the like on batteries & torches trying to get that perfect EDC or throw torch :ohgeez:

- I ended up cutting my losses and buying a DBS and WOW I should have done that earlier and saved more $ - as to me,it has everything I want - the last torch I bought from DX was a Aurora WF-800 Q5 at $42.35 glass lens plastic reflector - a third longer a third heavier - even tho it has a Q5 in it, on high its just a bit brighter than the DBS 3 stage when I set it at at 50% :thumbsdow :naughty:- I would have to say the DBS comes close to nearly twice the torch that the WF-800 Q5 is.:thumbsup:

Glenn7 · Jan 4, 2008

BTW can you tell that a lens is coated with AR just by looking at it?

Dragonfueled · Jan 4, 2008

You guys are killing me. I want a DBS so bad but im trying to hold out till the next generation of leds are introduced

WadeF · Jan 4, 2008

Glenn7 said:
BTW can you tell that a lens is coated with AR just by looking at it?

Yes. If you try to get a lamp, or some bright point of light, to reflect in it, you should notice it doesn't reflecty very brightly, and it may have a tint to the reflection, like purple, green, etc. If it isn't coated it would have a brighter reflection without the color tint.

Patriot · Jan 4, 2008

Well, that was a near comparison. I like to watch the difference in drop off as the distance increased. That's seems to be a good way figuring out whether the output is less or if it's less throwy.

Glenn7 · Jan 4, 2008

Well as a photographer I understand light and how it looks [but I am by no means a know-it-all] I have found that if you shine the two light sources up into a dark night sky then stand back and look up at which beam is longer - that is a simple but good way of seeing the throw or distance that the light can travel through dust/pollution and moisture [or rather it is reflecting off] but this is only good for a spot light or thrower as it will not show the accumulated over all out put of any light - we can measure light intensity with a meter but because we perceive light with our eye's and not a meter - depending on eye color and quality of our eye-sight we all perceive color and intensity differently - but to my eyes I can see that the DBS is at least 1/3 brighter in throw - well it should be! for three reasons the DBS spot is half the size [better optics] the WF-800 Q5 may only be driven at up to 1amp and DBS driven at 1.2amp's and I am not perfectly sure but I reckon Dereelight would be a little more fussy with their choice of emitters [DBS is a cleaner white & the 800 Q5 is a warmer white] - so I suppose what I am trying to say is that the old saying is true you do get what you pay for. :broke:

:twothumbs - hope that sheds some light :thumbsdowon it. :ohgeez:

Glenn7 · Jan 4, 2008

Patroit: I also see that you must have a wiseled tactical by your avatar? - me too :twothumbs - thats one butt kicking torch - not much comes close to Him! - it doesn't quite have the distance in throw - but overall accumulative output is the same as a 24W HID. :crackup:

Dereelight DBS vs. EdgeTac Raidfire Spear!

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