Recommend an EDC/secondary combo?

Hi all :wave: Until a few days ago I was unaware of any flashlight brand other than maglight, so as you can imagine I have been lurking in a pretty confused state. Hopefully you guys can help me sort out what to buy as my first decent lights.

First, I want a small EDC usable as a keychain. For me this means less than, maybe, 9cm long and 2.3 cm wide (3.5"x0.9"). It should have a simple interface, for example off-low-high or off-low-med-high; low should be a real low, for reading and preserving night vision, and another mode must be usable as a night walking light. Beam ideally a little floody and with regulated output. Finally, call me shallow, but if I'm carrying it around all the time I want something pretty.

Second, I want a 'backpack' light that is larger but pocketable, given a good sized pocket. A medium setting for night walking, with good (preferably 8h+) runtime, and a 'shock-and-awe' setting. Here I'm OK with a more compicated interface and more modes. Beam a little more throwy but not a true thrower.

Both lights must be able to run off the same battery type. Both must be grippy, have easy one-handed operation and be weatherproof enough that I can confidently carry them through snow, desert or monsoon. Reliability is important as is decent shock resistance, though they shouldn't see excessive impact abuse.

Cheaper is of course better but I'm not very price sensitive. Keep it below $300 for both and I will not complain too much.

I have some ideas but I don't want to prejudice anyone's recommendations yet. Thanks!

Give us the ideas that you currently have in your head, and we can let you know what to expect from those lights.

I had a couple of ideas myself.... until you made it clear that both lights have to run off the same battery.

OK then; the Muyshondt Nautilus looks pretty close for the EDC, but is unregulated (not a huge deal) and I don't know anything about reliability/weatherproofing. Obviously it's also pricey. There is some new 123A twisty out with a similar action and programmable levels, I forget the brand; it's untested though and ugly.

For a main 123A light the Fenix P3D is OK but seemingly has poor grip, although I can modify that. Dereelight CL1H might be OK but I don't know how usable the 'low' is on the 123A model. Fenix T1 looks OK but again needs modifying for grip and doesn't seem to have an edge over the P3D in non-tactical applications.

I intend to carry these around in unfamiliar and sometimes remote locations, so having the same battery type looks important I'm afraid.

Welome to CPF! I would reccomend Fenix lights. If you want to keep the same battery type, I would go CR123 if you don't mind a little extra cost for batteries.

A keychain light- https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_69_51&products_id=317

This may be a little much for a keychain, but fits easily in a pocket- https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_69_51&products_id=327

A slightly bigger WOW! light- https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_85&products_id=386

I can't personally reccommend the P1, but I own the T-1, and the P2D.

The T-1 is awesome; low mode is nice with 10 hours runtime, but high mode is BRIGHT, and definately has a wow factor. I prefer high mode just cause it's so awesome.

The P2D has a few more levels than you wanted, but they are not complicated to use. High on this also has a wow factor. There is a premium version, but having used both, it is not worth the extra money IMHO. Here is the premium version- https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_65&products_id=360

I'm sure others will reccommend some other great lights, but I have hands on experience with these so I will reccommmend them. I hope this helps.:thumbsup:

EDIT: I noticed you were thinking you wanted more common batteries after I posted this, I don't personally own these, but maybe a L2D- https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_65&products_id=362

And an L1D; it comes in Cree and Rebel versions, here is the Rebel- https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_69_50&products_id=329

jugg,

thanks! I can certainly see the attraction of the P2D/T1 combo. For me, the P2D is a fine size for a keychain. However;

- it's ugly :nana:
- it's not grippy. Modifying it would make it even more ugly and less compact.
- 5-cycle main mode is nsg, especially when I would never use 2 of them.

Something based on AA's is very tempting, but the performance of the available AA's seems pretty weak and the tech out of date. Also the ergonomics seem bad, especially for a keychain. I'm interested if someone can convince me otherwise.

I'm going to completely ignore your requirements and suggest to you two bombproof lights that do not use the same battery type, offer long runtime and good output, are grippy and waterproof.

HDS Twisty (or, Novatac EDC if you like complicated things) for your main light. You can get it in the standard CR123-size version, and I hear there's some kind of AA-based battery tube supposed to be available for these? Absolutely durable, reliable lights with multiple levels that will cover all manner of spectrum that you specified.

Arc-AAA DS. Using AAA batteries, which you can find in most developed countries anywhere, you'll have a tiny reliable light that is bright and floody with excellent runtime and reliability. Will disrupt night vision but has a completely intuitive dimming system, as advertised by Peter Gransee -- to lower the output, just cover the bezel with your finger as much as needed!

If you find yourself often in third world countries, AA batteries are a must, so pick up an Arc-AA instead. They're not too bright but back in their heyday not a single person complained that they were dim. Excellent for night-time reading.

I figure using the same battery type in a keychain and primary light is a pretty difficult requirement to fit. If you use AA's for keychain and primary you'll have a really big keychain (the Arc-AA is the smallest AA light I can think of and the only AA light I'd put on a keychain), and a decently powered primary. If you use 123's, again you'll have a pretty huge keyring light -- Fenix P1-CE is probably the most popular one nowadays, and it is not really that small -- or you can hope you can find one of Larry's LL-CR123's... which I've only seen sold once, for $600 or so. If you use AAA's you're stuck with some pretty gnarly 3xAAA-based primary lights and nobody here seems to like them... mostly because the battery carriers are terrible. CR2's... well, they're the odd duck in the crowd, but most CR2-based lights function well as a primary light... on a keychain. Take the CR2 Ion for example, which is an excellent primary light... but also keychain-sized. Don't know any lights that'd be bigger in a CR2 pattern.

Howdy Jamougha, and welcome to CPF,
I would recommend that you spend a bit of time checking out these flashlight review and information sites:

http://lightreviews.info/news.html
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/features/buyers_guide.htm
http://www.cpfreviews.com/
http://flashlightnews.org/
http://ledmuseum.home.att.net/

And of course, for all other flashlight info., the infamous CPF welcome mat:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172991

Hopefully you are not in a hurry, as this much information can be a bit overwhelming at first..... but give it a few weeks and I'm sure your choices will begin to become a bit more clear. Happy hunting.

I'd like to note that the P2D's low, if it is anything remotely similar to that of the L2D-CE's low, then it is completely incompatible with night-adapted vision. Blows it right out of the water. After using the L2D on low your night vision is gone.

AA's are a fantastic battery size, but nobody seems interested in making keychain-sized AA lights any more. Probably because AAA-based lights are nearly as capable in a much smaller size and multi-levels make the higher capacity of AA less important in a keychain light than it used to be.

For night vision, use a red led. Get a Photon II with a red led from photonlights.com or wherever. Do NOT get one of the cheap clones. The clones ("fauxtons") with white leds are great and I buy them by the dozen. The ones with red leds suck for some reason.

IMO a 123 light is too big to put on a keychain. An Arc AAA is about the maximum and I carried one for a while but switched to a Photon (actually two of them, one white and one red).

I think Carrot's suggestion of an Arc AAA and an HDS TR70 is good.

For reading, you want a pure flood. Anything less than that will be really annoying by comparison. For 123 power that would be McGizmo's Aleph Mule which is a bit on the expensive side but is a wonderful light. A cheaper (nowhere near as nice) substitute is the Zebralight H50 headlamp which is powered by 1aa with 1x123 and 1aaa versions in the works.

Jamougha said:

OK then; the Muyshondt Nautilus looks pretty close for the EDC, but is unregulated (not a huge deal) and I don't know anything about reliability/weatherproofing. Obviously it's also pricey.

Click to expand...

Per Enrique..........the Nautilus is regulated
Quote from Endeavour in original Ti Nautilus thread............

"Runtime is two hours and forty-five minutes on high mode before the light starts going out of regulation, and it'll run for several hours after that in a dimmer mode. Low mode will run for several days - likely for around 85 hours. On high mode the light does not get particularly hot since the power consumption is low."

Same driver is in Hardcoat version and I believe is 350ma..........amazing, useful brightness for 350ma IMO.

Ti Nautilus

I find an ARC AAA on the keychain (backup light and battery carrier) and a Fenix LOD AAA on a neck lanyard meet my needs offering 18 hours of very usable light with the ability to blast much higher for several hours if needed.

Jamougha said:

I intend to carry these around in unfamiliar and sometimes remote locations, so having the same battery type looks important I'm afraid.

Click to expand...

Crap.... Well, you can forget about using CR123-based lights. AA or AAA cells are common through out the world. CR123s are not. I was going to recommend a Fenix P3D for primary use. Wrapping the barrel with a layer of friction tape would help with grip. And a Fenix P1 as your key-chain light. Yeah, a bit thick for key-chain carry; but not too big for that assignment.

Ironically, my dad was in a similar situation last year. He lives most of the year in Russia. And even the cities are not that modernized. Before he left to go back, I got him 3 lights. (Ironically, one of them was a cheap, Made in China, no-name, 5mm cluster LED light that he told me he really wanted). I got him the light he wanted. It runs off of 3xAAA cells in a battery carrier. I decided he needed a smaller light. So I got him the 2AAA River Rock model. Then for his key-chain, I got him a 1AAA Dorcy key-chain light. All run off of common AAA cells. All are LED lights.

I have included links to reviews for all three of these lights, at the end of my post.

But in your case, although an Arc AAA-P would be the best overall key-chain light to take into remote places around the world, finding a good 3xAAA primary light is going to be an issue. There's the Dorcy Metal Gear, but I doubt it'll be bright enough for your needs. There's the Coast Focusing LED Lenser model. But to be honest, my experience with Coast lights has generally been negative. Still, the Lenser model might be the best 3xAAA light on the market.

More links below, for these models as well.

Overall, your best bet might be to take carrot's advice.
I would also recommend taking a serious look at Fenix's AA offerings. A single AA light can be pressed into duty as a key-chain model. All you need is a lanyard hole on the light. Then, a 2AA light can be used as your primary light. If you don't like the offerings from Fenix in a 2AA form factor, get a Mini-Maglite with Terra-lux drop-in. Terra-lux also has an aftermarket tailcap switch you can use on a 2AA Mini-mag. Then just get the pen clip that Maglite makes for their Mini-mags.

Still, in your shoes, I'd get the Fenix L2D Q5. Then for use on a key-chain, try to get the Arc AA model.

Links:

Made in China 3xAAA light.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/amart_ll.htm

River Rock 2AAA
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/nuwai_tm-311h_2aaa.htm

Dorcy AAA light
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/dorcy_aaa.htm

Arc AAA-P
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/arc_aaa-p.htm

Dorcy Metal Gear
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/dorcy_metalgear.htm

Coast Lenser
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/141977

Wow the HDS Twisty looks wonderful, but if I can standardize on AA's it seems like such a sensible idea. And the Fenix L2D Q5 appears much better than I had realised!

The Arc AA looks sturdy, but how about... the Zebralight H50? Detached the light is tiny (67mmx18mm, smaller than the Arc AA) and I like the pure flood with the L2D as backup. It looks like the H50 ticks every box - except one - it doesn't seem to have a hole for a keychain. :sigh:

I could either use the pocket clip attachment to mount a spit ring or fix a new mounting point somehow. :thinking: If anyone has one of these I'd like to know if they think either method is possible.

Thanks again for all the help, this forum is... brilliant!

HDS has claimed there will be a 2AA tube available for the twisty. As with most such things I wouldn't count it as available until you can actually buy them, but if you're not in a hurry, you could sit and wait.

The H50 is a great headlamp but is a bit of a pain in the neck to operate as a general purpose handheld light (multi-twist UI).

Now that I understand your plan a little better, I think you should just bite the bullet and deal with two separate battery types. Arc AAA on the keychain, and something AA powered in the backpack. Keep in mind that if you have to buy local AA's, you won't even easily be able to get alkalines, you'll be stuck with zinc-carbon cells of really crap quality. So you might choose a lower powered light or a 2 cell light, L2DCE if you like Fenix. In my case when I did a trip like that last year, I had a Fenix L1P and some nimh cells and a universal voltage charger, and that worked out just fine. I used the L1p quite a lot and simply recharged or swapped cells when needed. Unless you're going to spend long periods in places with no electricity, this approach might be worth considering. You could even get a solar charger but I don't know how much of a nuisance that would be. I used a Lacrosse BC-900 charger which could charge any combination of up to 4 AA and AAA cells simultaneously, and I had an mp3 player and Arc AAA that ran on AAA cells, and a digicam that used AA's. In reality I rarely had to charge AAA's, but used the L1p quite a lot, mostly on one cell that I recharged once a week or so, and I recharged the digicam cells a few times as well. I had a total of 4 spare cells of each size, not much pack space in those little plastic snap boxes, and was way more batteries than I needed.

If you really want an AA light on your keychain, you could look for a rare and expensive Arc AA (corrected!), or go for something like a CMG or Gerber Ultra or a Peak Kilimanjaro. It occurs to me that the LRI Proton Pro might also be of relevance.

Interesting thread.


And to Jamougha --

Welcome to CandlePowerForums !

:welcome:
_

Arc AAA are not rare. aqnd they aren't that expensive. they are currently avle directly from arc for a reasionable price.
Yaesumofo

paulr said:

If you really want an AA light on your keychain, you could look for a rare and expensive Arc AAA, or go for something like a CMG or Gerber Ultra or a Peak Kilimanjaro. It occurs to me that the LRI Proton Pro might also be of relevance.

Click to expand...

Whoops! Typo, of course I meant Arc AA.

If I had the money, my setup would be the L0D-CE Q4 or Liteflux LF2 for the keychain and probably the Dereelight CL1H powered by a rechargeable 18650 battery to be the bigger more powerful light.

But they do use different batteries.

IMO, AA id a bit too big for keychain and AAA aren't that good for powering a highpower LED at a good output(around 39-50 lumen) for a real length of time(Over an hour) so two different batteries might good option.

Going with the same batteries, how's a P1D-CE Q5 as the keychain light and wither the CL1h or the P3D. The CL1H's low should be around 30-40 lumen.

Fenix Store also has a 8% off coupon for CPFers, "CPF8".

:welcome:

My current carry is a Fenix L0PSE in my pocket, and a Streamlight Stylus Pro in the breast pocket of my leather jacket. Both use AAA batteries and both have decent runtimes and are plenty bright for daily uses. The Stylus Pro even throws a respectable distance. Perhaps not as bright as the eye scorchers so many prefer for EDC, but they work well for me.

They replace almost exactly in size the lights I carried EDC for perhaps 10 years, in MUCH brighter, longer running packages. I used to carry a Solitare and AAA Minimag.

carrot said:

I'd like to note that the P2D's low, if it is anything remotely similar to that of the L2D-CE's low, then it is completely incompatible with night-adapted vision. Blows it right out of the water. After using the L2D on low your night vision is gone.

Click to expand...

Unless you use a red filter. They're available for the Fenix P3D and the L2D from the usual suspects. I'd still prefer a really low low, but a red filter helps a lot:

https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_38&products_id=338

Hans