Real World Malkoff Device test : non-technical

Alright, I like the technical data tests that everyone posts about the new LED drop-ins. Those subjective evaluations and numbers help us determine features and evaluate the physical aspects. They help to eliminate subjectivity. However, in real world use, sometimes the objectivity is not as important as the 'subjective' evaluation.

Here is what I mean. When can list lumens, throw, bins, etc and compare the technical aspects; but those numbers are not always understood or appreciated. This especially holds true with some folks that use the technical lights. For example, the guys on my tactical team have heard me talk about how great my new Malkoff drop-ins were, especially in comparison with the lights we presently had. They had seen them in training and agreed they were 'pretty neat'. It wasn't until a real callout the other night that the true difference were noted.

My M4 has a SF 6P attached with a Daniel Defense offset mount and a-shock isolated bezel with a new Malkoff Q5 drop-in. My handheld is a SF C2 Centurions with a Q5 Malkoff.

Entry team members have MP-5s with the SF integral 6P forearm with touchpads and 61 LAs. We carry 6P/C2 handhelds and have MX3s on our pistols. During the search warrant entry two nights ago, the differenec in the weapons lights was more than significant. The wide and bright illiumination compared to the stock SF lamps was incredible. The comparison to M4s using the SCOUT light was also incredible. Granted, the SCOUT is designed to use mostly in interior use and has limited throw; but the Malkoff has a wide diffusion ALONG with an intense beam that is incredibly 'warm' in comparison to the SF 100 lumen LED. It's almost as warm as the incandescents. After the suspects were cuffed, we did a quick weapons/threats search of the interior before turning over to the DTF guys. It became a joke for the guys to yell at me and tell me to bring that "spotlight' over to lighten up the search areas. The difference, from a subjective, non-technical aspect - was profound.

This is not a comparison of different drop-ins; it is strictly our observation of the difference the M60 Q5 and the SF incans and KL4. During the actual application in a real-world environment, we saw a great difference.

The guys would have never believed the specs would be this different. Now, they are pretty much sold after the 'demostration'. The extended run time issue was pretty neat too. Anybody else have an 'epiphany' like this, where actually using and comparing lights resulted in such a result?

The new M60 is pretty amazing. The optic gives it a strong hot spot, and a lot of spill that just seems to flood out everywhere, I don't have another light like it. While I'm not a SWAT team guy, or anything close to it (except when I'm on XBOX, hehe), I could tell that it would be useful for situations where you have to move through building and clear rooms because of the wide bright spill, hot spot, etc. The tint is great as well. Gene always strives to have the best tints, white, and a little on the warm side.

I'm sure Gene will be excited to hear your report of his drop-in used in the field.

Nice report. I just ordered a drop in from Gene and I'm sure I'll be happy.

Nice report. IMHO Gene's M60 is like a kl4 on setroids. It is like a kl4 with throw !

It is no wonder the guys were calling you over. How many of them carry 6P's? How many of those guys will be ordering Malkoff M60's units for their 6P's? The proof is in the pudding.
There is no doubt the M60 is a great way to go. It is my current favorite 2 cell light. When I reach for a walking around the block light or a look in the yard light. My m60 drop in is what I go for.
Yaesumofo

WOW! Thanks for the kind words. This sincerely made my day.

Gene

I have been using my Malkoff D drop-in on the perimeter of a corrections warehousing facility (prison) for several months and have been more than pleased. But, I have desired a smaller form for inside the fences use. Since receiving the M60 I may not need the M@g except for longer runtime situations. The M60 has all the throw I need with generous spill, the best multi purpose light I have owned. Gene produces great products and seems to be a great guy. Thank you, Gene, for great products and not being afraid of success. Have a happy, safe, and productive New Year.

Howdy.

I just got one of these over the weekend and tried it out in my C2.

I expected throw, but the flood is surprising, and amazing. It excels at both. This thing is incredible; it's both a floor wax and a dessert topping.

I bought this a a What-was-that-weird-noise-from-out-back? light (we sometimes babysit some friends' farm), but I'm glad to hear the evaluation of pros. Thanks.

Cheers,

Alan

With the Q2 and Q5 LED's have finally reached the point where it is practical to have them on both a hand held and weapon light.

I'm running a G2 with Bug Out Q5 on my patrol carbine and PILA G2 with a Wolf Eyes Q2 on my shotgun.

I'm running a PILA GL3R with Wolf Eyes Q5 on the belt.

Incredibly long run times, Superb brightness with both flood and throw.

Things can only get better when R bins and higher start to come out.

FiftyCalAl -

Your report is much appreciated.

I had thought for some time that I'd like to get a modder to mod my KL3 with a high power LED and put another driver in it that would deliver around 1000 mA. This is because for foggy, smokey etc. environments I wanted a very tight, very intense beam to cut through with the least amount of scatter possible. I'm still considering that option.

However, I've been happily surprised with this new Malkoff M60 in my SureFire Z3. The tint renders colors better than expected. The spot is certainly better than expected. The sidespill, being gradient in nature, is nice. I've been thinking that this light is just right for clearing my home. Outside it's pretty amazing at 40 '. So I'm still debating what I want for a handheld light to accompany a firearm.

My choice of handgun is often a tiny Tomcat.

Other times the choice is a Sig 229 Elite in Sig .357. I've been debating if I want to make use of the picatinny rail. This handgun is fairly heavy already (similar beefy slide like the .40). I want to make that decision before I buy a half a bucket-full of holsters. It sounds like from your report that a Malkoff in an X300 might be just the ticket but I'm still debating the idea of a tight beam with zero spill. What are your thoughts on this? Also, that X300 price tag is a consideration. Could I get an older model (I think it's X200), drop a Malkoff Devices in it and get similar performance?

Icebreak said:

...I'm watching FiftyCalAl's posts and other's posts to decide if I'll ever use the picatinny rail....

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I have another question. Does the C2 work well with a Roger's (cigar) grip for you? I like the Z2 and the Z3. The C2's type III anodize is an appealing finish for its durability.

As a sidenote, I work with LEOs and occasionally advise them on lights. Having a report from an actual LEO to point them to will be helpful.

Thanks again for the report. Just what I wanted to know.

For Handgun use, especially with a presumption that the engagement will be at night (roughly 70% of pistol fights occur in dim light and short ranges), especially if you are potentially using the pistol primarily for home defense, I would recommend using that tactical rail. Why? When your 'something-goes-bump-in-the-night' happens, you need to have 3 things immediately available to you (at a minimum): firearm; light; and (cell)phone. these 3 things should be with you as you clear your house, or opt to take a defensive position and wait for an aggressor. A light attached to your principle defense arm will give you the option of having a light wherever you have you weapon, in one package. Now mind you - I have one on my Glock(s) at home, but I also have a hand-held I carry with it. (the old '2 is 1; 1 is none' rule). A handheld is perfectly fine though if you decide not to mount a light. I have actually had a ligh blow on me during use when firing; my Team kept firing for the 20 seconds it took me to get my backup handheld in operation. MURPHY does live!

AS far as whether Gene mods these lights (M200) (M300), I do not know. I personally own a M300 and thinj it is a great light. It has excellent throw and has great throw with an appropriately sized wide beam. The 200B was too weak and the 200A too narrow for room clearing (imho). The 300 does it all, but is a bit cool, no where near as warm as Gene's stuff. But the 300 is a great light, all aluminum, pyrex lens and cheaper than the 200s were. Our team uses Insight MX3s with and incandescent. It is faily wide and long throwing, but can't touch the 300. . I have actually had a MX3 'pop' on me during training drills. It was a good drill, having to revert to a backup; but disconcerting. Lots of companies make good weapons lights and several are priced under $100. For me, though, the 300 SF beats them all.

You have to decide whether you are carrying your pistol in a dedicated holster accomodating a weapons light or not. For middle of the night stuff,my suggestion is have a fanny pack with the essentials I discussed and maybe some spare ammo, etc. That way you can clip it on it no time and have all the stuff with you. You can opt for a holster, but I don't have a lot of places to attach one when I am startled out of a sleep - but my waist (naked or clothed) is always gonna be ther.

I do not Personally like the cigar hold of the Rogers. I find the hold to be somewhat wobbly and can't keep my light on target as easily, having to control moevement in several different planes. I prefer a back of the hand to back of the hand approch; this tends to line up the light pattern with the bore and gives me more light and pistol control.

Again these are all opinions by FiftyCalAl, your mileage may vary

My M60 Q5 already has time under it's belt. I've been on a man hunt with it, searched for narcotics in a dim lit apartment with it, searched for stolen and dumped good in a completely dark parking lot, cleared apartments, etc... It's done it's job and then some.

Thanks Gene!!

My apologies. I did not accurately read your OP. My brain stored X300 but you said MX3. I also misread thinking the Malkoff was in the handgun's weapon light. I re-read slowly and now I believe I understand.

Also, I made a mistake with saying Roger's grip. Back of hand is intuitive with the Z3. I don't know the name of that grip.

Thanks for the great insights. Using a dedicated weapon light w/ back up light makes a lot of sense. I practice (unloaded) clearing my home and I've never carried my cell phone with me. I'll change that right now. The fanny pack is a great idea. It never occurred to me. That would be fast and I'd have everything I needed at hand.

Thanks again for the insight and the real world test report.

FiftycalAl has it right. I'm not on a tac team, but I do interact with crooks on a daily basis and rely on competent lighting for safety and to get the job done. For the last few months, that has meant using the M60 in either a 6P or 9P. What a difference compared to even the P91! It really has to be seen to be believed. The difference was significant enough that I sold my Chief on upgrading every SF in our agency with the MD drop-ins. I have also recommended these to the warrant squad at the U.S. Marshals. It's just a matter of time before they convert over I'm sure.

I plan to mount a M60-equipped G2 (with the VLTOR mount) on both the shotgun and rifle. That will prove a nearly indestructible combo I believe.

Icebreak said:

Back of hand is intuitive with the Z3. I don't know the name of that grip.

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Harries technique. Works great for me, except when illuminating from my weak side - then the FBI technique (low or high) works better from an illumination stand point (but you're shooting one-handed). Gotta practice at least two flashlight techniques and transitioning between them as you go.

I'll agree with knowing and practicing at least two techniques.

Also - there are some techniques that work well for some and are horrid for others. I can do pretty much any of them (FBI, Harries, SureFire/Rogers, and the Thorpe) with my 9Z/Z3, with my preference being the Harries and Rogers.

My wife, however, can pretty much only handle the Rogers. Her hand size and the fact that her body type (she's a bit top heavy) precludes any stance except isosceles. Things (ahem) get in the way when she's doing the Harries in combination with a Weaver/Modified Weaver, and her eye/hand coordination isn't great with the FBI. And she doesn't have the upper body strength to handle Harries/Isosceles for any long length of time.

As soon as my NovaTac comes in, I'll try the Thorpe with her. The short hands again gets into play with the CombatLight and she can't trigger the Thorpe variant well with anything other than a E1L with a thin delrin washer bored out to fit the body.

-Steve

greenLED said:

Harries technique. Works great for me, except when illuminating from my weak side - then the FBI technique (low or high) works better from an illumination stand point (but you're shooting one-handed). Gotta practice at least two flashlight techniques and transitioning between them as you go.

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Wow...looks like Gene will be a busy guy in the coming months

Can't wait to get mine

Beastmaster, thanks for sharing the Thorpe technique. Looks like it'd work well with smaller lights. Have you tried it with 2x123 lights?. Regardless, I'll have to try it some time. Seems like it allows better control than the other side-by-side techniques.

I have. It works, but I do have large hands. And you need a Combatlight or something that has a flare (either created or built in) in order to use it.

(Apologies to the OP for drifting a bit here)

There's only two advantages with the Thorpe technique that I can see after trying it at the range a few times.

1) You get direct in-line aiming with the light and the pistol. This also has an advantage for those who don't have night sights - it allows you to get a good profile of the front and rear sight in the light picture.

2) You get really good push/pull tension of the pistol's grip in the hands. It also reinforces the grip and reduces training because it reinforces a proper grip to begin with. (Sorry, the old LEO instructor in me is coming out again)

There's a few bad things. But then, all flashlight methods have their pros/cons

The biggest one - the ring finger contact. I find that I get better light control by pushing the grip hand into the support hand, thereby making low ready positions where you have the light off, and high ready where you have the light on to sweep or it's on target. Therefore, it's more instinctive - you have a tighter grip on everything when you're at a high ready, and then when you're at a low ready, it's off.

The second one - you need a flashlight with knurling, flare, or the o-ring/washer mod.

-Steve

greenLED said:

Beastmaster, thanks for sharing the Thorpe technique. Looks like it'd work well with smaller lights. Have you tried it with 2x123 lights?. Regardless, I'll have to try it some time. Seems like it allows better control than the other side-by-side techniques.

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Bloodnut said:

What a difference compared to even the P91! It really has to be seen to be believed. The difference was significant enough that I sold my Chief on upgrading every SF in our agency with the MD drop-ins. I have also recommended these to the warrant squad at the U.S. Marshals. It's just a matter of time before they convert over I'm sure.

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Outstanding. A few government contracts would be good for Malkoff Devices and it seems that their products would be highly beneficial to those organizations that choose them as issued equipment.

greenLED said:

Harries technique. Works great for me, except when illuminating from my weak side - then the FBI technique (low or high) works better from an illumination stand point (but you're shooting one-handed). Gotta practice at least two flashlight techniques and transitioning between them as you go.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Migs. Very good to know. At one local range the fellow that runs it will let me practice low light or no light. Have to go in at unpopular times and shoot by myself. I'm definitely going to practice transitioning between different techniques next time the opportunity presents itself.

Beastmaster -

Thank you! I have more to learn. To avoid my questions effecting the topic much more than they already have, I'll just say I truly appreciate my questions being answered but more importantly; it's good to hear from all of you LEOs as well as you non-LEO members as to your real world impressions of the M60's performance.

Wow. That would be good for Gene.

I'm getting a Malkoff Q5 drop in via BST. It's going into my 9Z as soon as it comes in. That's my primary non-EDC light. I'll be trying it out at the range the next time I go to a shoot.

-Steve

Icebreak said:

Outstanding. A few government contracts would be good for Malkoff Devices and it seems that their products would be highly beneficial to those organizations that choose them as issued equipment.

Click to expand...