Does one brand/model always use the same LED

If one were to buy a torch say a Fenix LOPD and the advertisement said that Fenix or better still the LOPD models came assume with a Cree LED lets just just say a Cree 3477A LED (I just made up that model btw), does this mean all the LOPD's from Fenix will be fitted with the same Cree/model LED light.

Basically how can one really dtermine what brand/model LED light their torch has in it ?

Another thing here is both my Minimag AA LED and my MX Power 1xAA LED torch uses Luxeon LED's (Philips Lumineds) and may I also include my Led Lenser Hocus Focus (Tactical Focus) 7438 as well. But if i were to shine all the three beams onto a wall in the dark, you'll find that though they are all LED torches, the Minimaglite LED is very slightly on the yellow side or better still cream kind of colour, where as my MX Power and LL 7438 are more whiter.

Basically it's like me asking do all LL Hocus Focus come with Luxeon LED's or other might come with seoul, Nichia, Cree etc etc.

The difference in beam color that you are seeing is due to the fact that all of your Luxeon (specifically Luxeon III emitter and Luxeon I emitter) aare running at different drive currents and they are also from different bins even though they may seem to be the same LEDs. My answer to your question is that say a company like surefire will constantly, but slowly make improvements to higher output/efficiency LEDs, but there is always a chance a whole batch of Lights come out with lower binned LEDs. For instance take the L1, it started off as a Luxeon I LED light, then surefire switched it to a Luxeon III light to increase output and efficiency, and then last year surefire switched from the Luxeon III to the Cree-XRE, which is again brighter and more efficient that the Luxeon that preceded it. Some companies that make lights will stay with one LED company because they like a certain aspect from that company. Personally I am a fan of lumileds LEDs since they are strictly binned by color coordinates (dominant wavelength) and lumen output/forward voltage. Also Luxeon (the entire line up from the Luxeon I to the Luxeon Rebel or K2 with TFFC) tend to have less problems with tint shifting when driven harder and heat sinked correctly. The primary companies you see LEDs from in most flashlights these days are Luxeon emitters (Luxeon I, Luxeon III, Luxeon V, K2, K2 With TFFC, Rebel...) Seoul Semi conductor P4 LEDs, Cree XRE/XRC LEDs and Nichia LEDs.


The following is a rather brief explination, I will come back with more.
Luxeons are the most common for lower end lights now and are identifiable by either a LED with a hemisperical dome lens (high dome) or slightly flattened lens (low dome) and have a yellow over phosphor on the LED chip. This applies for the Luxeon I and Luxeon III. The Luxeon V is basically when lumileds took 4 luxeon I chips and stuffed them into the same package that a luxeon I would be in. These LEDs can be identified by looking at the LED when it is off and seeing if you can make out 4 seperate die.

Seouls tend to have a "blob" like phosphor coating and the contact wires arc in to the die and the TVS from one side. The domes are very gummy and attract dust. Seouls also tend to have a more bluish tint when on compared to lumileds LEDs.

Crees have a glass dome lens and a metal ring on the LED package. Also when looking at the LED die, one can make out the individual rectangles that formed the die. Crees either have 2, 3 , or 4 bond wires to lower the forward voltage.

Hope this helps. (Also experts on Cree and seoul, feel free to correct me if I am wrong on anything, I wrote this up in about 3 minutes.)

Most reputable torch manufacturers will use what is in their advertising. Many will use a general model # rather than a specific one. The L0D CE specs were based on the Cree 7090 XRE (P2 bin) LED. I bought 3 from January to June last year and they had as far as I can figure out P3 WC bin. I bought another one in July and my guess is it is a P4 WD from the tint change and slightly brighter.
Fenix will use better LEDs when they are available but will not commit themselves to a specific LED. So Fenix will say Cree 7090 XRE but the lights can have any version of the LED: P2,P3, P4, Q2, Q4 etc for brightness; WC, WD, WG, WH for colour/tint. Fenix like most other manufacturers will only identify the LED in short run special editions such as the L0D Q4 Christmas special.
When Fenix tried the Luxeon Rebel in some L0Ds the L0D RB80 name was used .

LEDs have variations in tint. Here is a thread with colour charts showing the colour bin #s and what you can expect from the various manufacturers. When only Luxeons were available whether you get a good tint or not was described as "the Luxeon lottery".
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/156772

Another question here is how can one tell what brand/type of LED their using in their torch. For eg. if I look down into my MX Power 1xAA LED torch all I see is a small glass dome than yellow inside that, sorry but bit confusing to explain. Or shall I say basically what I'm looking at is the whole LED itself, but I cant see any brand name written on it.

Albinoni said:

Another question here is how can one tell what brand/type of LED their using in their torch. For eg. if I look down into my MX Power 1xAA LED torch all I see is a small glass dome than yellow inside that, sorry but bit confusing to explain. Or shall I say basically what I'm looking at is the whole LED itself, but I cant see any brand name written on it.

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It's hard to tell that way unless you have a lot of experience with LED's. If you post a picture, one of the uber knowledgeable CPF'ers will help you.

There is no L0PD. There is a L0P, L0P-SE, L0D, and L0D-CE(not including the Rebel 80 and Q4 models).

The main high-power LEDs will look different. All Cree XR-E LEDs will look like this(You won't be able to tell what bin though, the center part). All Seoul P4s will look like this. All Luxeon Rebels will look similar to this. All Luxeon I and IIIs will look like this. All Luxeon Vs will look like this. All Luxeon K2s will look like this.

The LEDs can be bought bare(no star board).

The same model could have different versions with different LEDs. For example, the L0D has a Luxeon III, the L0D-CE has a Cree XR-E P4 bin LED(Unless otherwise designated, like Q4 would mead a Cree XR-E Q4 bin), and the Rebel 80 will have a Luxeon Rebel 80 LED.

You will have to read the specs and look at the pictures to find out which LED. Most won't state bin(So you could end up getting the lowest bin). That is why you stick to better know companies and flashlights.

LEDninja said:

The L0D CE specs were based on the Cree 7090 XRE (P2 bin) LED. I bought 3 from January to June last year and they had as far as I can figure out P3 WC bin. I bought another one in July and my guess is it is a P4 WD from the tint change and slightly brighter.
Fenix will use better LEDs when they are available but will not commit themselves to a specific LED. So Fenix will say Cree 7090 XRE but the lights can have any version of the LED: P2,P3, P4, Q2, Q4 etc for brightness; WC, WD, WG, WH for colour/tint. Fenix like most other manufacturers will only identify the LED in short run special editions such as the L0D Q4 Christmas special.
When Fenix tried the Luxeon Rebel in some L0Ds the L0D RB80 name was used .

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I am fairly certain that Fenix has NEVER used below a P4 bin, including the first LOD CE's.

Marduke said:

I am fairly certain that Fenix has NEVER used below a P4 bin, including the first LOD CE's.

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I bought 3 L0D CE between January and June** last year and they were cool white. I bought another one in July and it has a warmer tint and brighter. Checking against Cutter's list of available LEDs 6 months ago:
P3 WC (cool white - Luxeon XO equivalent)
P4 WD (neutral white - Luxeon WO equivalent***)
(there were no P3 WD or P4 WC)
leads me to believe I got 3 P3s and 1 P4.

The Q4 Xmas special has specs that are exactly 1.5X the standard spec.
Q4 88 lm/W. 1/1.5*88=58.66667
P2 69 lm/W
So the specs were based on the P2 but my 1st L0D CE in Jan 2007 (1st production batch?) seem to be already a P3. So all L0D CEs have a better LED than indicated by the spec.

**I did not buy the June ones from 7777 so they could be old stock. 7777 probably has the P4 versions long before then.
***I am fairly certain the LEDs in My Little Friend 3x3W are LuxIII TWOJ so is using that for tint reference.

Gunner, I believe you link to the luxeon III/Luxeon I picture is not a real Luxeon Star, the silk screen on the top of the star is incorrect, typically a luxeon star has those letters written in copper etching. Also from the view, the Luxeon I/Lux III looks like it is either lacking or has a distorted gull wing lead formation which definetly tells me it is a fake. (these are just my obervations)

Alibinoni- the LED you are talking about probably is either a Luxeon (with a plastic dome that would mean either a Lux I or Lux III) or a Luxeon with the newer silicone dome (K2, K2 w/ TFFC, or Rebel). That or it could be a SSC P4 LED. Could you take a picture of the LED for further inquiry?

Now the funny thing is when I bought my MX Power torch there had other torches there that were identical in looks to mine, but one of them said MX Power on one side, and on the other it said Nichia LED, Made in Japan. Mine says MX Power and on the other side it says 1w Super Bright.

Ok my MX Power torch is identical to this one but does not say Nichia, this is identical to the one I mentioned above re the Nichia LED.

http://www.shorelinemarket.com/ulcomxpo1aan.html

Also what do they mean by this:

"[FONT=arial, helvetica]Cranking out about 50 lumens the MX Power features a tactical style reverse clickie tailcap which can also be utilized as a reverse momentary switch."

Also the LED on mine seems to be quite a nice crisp bright white, infact I found it to be whiter than the one which had the Nichia LED in it.
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Many manufacturers use all the different LEDs to cover all bases. Also allows them to use what is the cheapest of the day.
MTE makes a 1AA 5 mode Cree:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4882
A 5 mode Rebel 80
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2315
A 5 mode Rebel 100
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.6162
A 5 mode SSC
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4896
When you multiply by battery type - AA, 14500, CR123, CR2, 18650.
And multiply again by # of modes (1 through 20) you get a bewildering array of choices.

Albinoni said:

Now the funny thing is when I bought my MX Power torch there had other torches there that were identical in looks to mine, but one of them said MX Power on one side, and on the other it said Nichia LED, Made in Japan. Mine says MX Power and on the other side it says 1w Super Bright.

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There are 2 types of Nichia power LEDs.
The 0.5W Rigel;
The 1.2W jupiter.

Albinoni said:

Ok my MX Power torch is identical to this one but does not say Nichia, this is identical to the one I mentioned above re the Nichia LED.
http://www.shorelinemarket.com/ulcomxpo1aan.html

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A forward clickie: press the button 1/2 way it lights up as long as you hold the button in, darkens when you let go. If you push the button all the way it clicks and stay on.
This is good for signalling or momentary where you want a quick flash of light to see but not have the light stay on long enough for the enemy to locate you and shoot you. Unfortunately in the excitement of a real shootout you are likely to press press the button until it clicks and you are all lit up for the enemy.
The proper momentary switch is a LOTC one. Screw the tailcap in all the way for constant on; unscrew 1/4 to 1/2 turn and you use the button for momentary. Unscrew the tailcap enough and the button is locked out.
A reverse clickie push until clicks, light stays on. A partial push while the light is on darkens it. Dark dots and dashes cannot be read easily so is no good for signaling. Also no momentary as the light is constant on.
'50 lumens' usually is at the LED, roughly 65% or 35 lumens leave the torch. Surefire has demonstrated you need at least 70 lumens to blind an opponent. LAPD swat found that a person blinded by a bright light will often give up while one shot at will just shoot back.
So the torch is not momentary or tactical. The quote is just marketing double talk to make the novice think this is the 'standard' for the SAS regiment when in fact an SAS trooper would NOT touch the thing with a 10 foot pole.

Albinoni said:

Also what do they mean by this:
Cranking out about 50 lumens the MX Power features a tactical style reverse clickie tailcap which can also be utilized as a reverse momentary switch."

Click to expand...

The Nichia Rigel LED die sits inside the case instead of on it. The light coming through the sides of the case is yellowish which to give a yellow tinge to the beam.
BTW if the light looks too white it has too much blue. This tends to give a grayscale white with improper colour rendition especially for walks in the woods. Not as critical in the city where the walls are white or gray.

Albinoni said:

Also the LED on mine seems to be quite a nice crisp bright white, infact I found it to be whiter than the one which had the Nichia LED in it.

Click to expand...