Why not more Singaporean type laws here in the US?

geepondy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 15, 2001
Messages
4,896
Location
Massachusetts
I've read here in the cafe about quite a few thefts and break-ins lately. Well yesterday my good friend had her small convenience store robbed by a guy that held a knife up to her. He got away with a couple of hundred dollars. It makes my blood boil to think of that and I say why not more Singaporean laws here in the US? For an instance I believe if that thief should get caught, he should have his hand that held the knife cut off or at least a finger or two. Don't bother wasting tax payers money on sending him to jail. Likewise swift and appropriate actions for other deeds such as car vandalism. I'm in agreement with the caning they do in Singapore.

What would be the downside of such stringent punishment? I guess the deeper question is, would it create a deter to crime.
 

Coop

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
2,199
Location
Tilburg, the Netherlands (perfectly reachable by U
Not just in the US.... here in the Netherlands the justice system is an absolute joke.

I think human rights organisations will get pretty pissed off, so maybe not start cutting off body parts, but do a trial with some good canings on the town square...
 

Diesel_Bomber

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
1,772
Works for me, bring on the public floggings! Make the minimum age be pretty low too. If they got beaten bloody in view of the people they'd stolen from when they were 12 instead of getting a slap on the wrist, then maybe they'd stop there instead of continuing into adulthood.

And don't wipe crime records when a person turns 18. It's not like the passing of a certain age makes them a different person.

:buddies:
 

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
7,505
Location
Flushing, NY
For an instance I believe if that thief should get caught, he should have his hand that held the knife cut off or at least a finger or two. Don't bother wasting tax payers money on sending him to jail. Likewise swift and appropriate actions for other deeds such as car vandalism. I'm in agreement with the caning they do in Singapore.
I agree that jail (i.e. taxpayer-funded room and board) is a complete waste of money the way it works now. Jail sentences of many years or even decades are pointless. Incarceration should be used to reform a person, if indeed they can be reformed, not as punishment. Such reform programs should be modeled after China's highly successful reform through manual labor program (a combination of rote labor plus "reprogramming" ). At most this reform would take a few years. In most cases my guess is weeks will do. Once deemed reformed, the person should be let back into society. If they commit another serious crime, perhaps they get one more try at reform. After that they get sent off to some island or other fenced off space for unreformable convicts. There would be no cells, no guards, no public support. It would basically be a place where inmates will survive or die by their own hands.

For lesser offenses caning and other forms of corporal punishment/public humiliation are very appropriate, especially for juvenile offenders who would be punished right in front of their fellow gang members. I'm not on board for cutting off body parts. By physically disabling a person, you decrease their ability to earn an honest living. I couldn't do what I do if I was missing a hand, for example.

What would be the downside of such stringent punishment? I guess the deeper question is, would it create a deter to crime.
IMHO the only downside would be the complaints from people who see such a program as "inhumane". Well, keeping people in jail for 50 years is probably even more inhumane, and it hasn't done much to deter future criminals. At least under the program described, the vast majority of petty criminals will have their "careers" nipped in the bud, and nobody will be spending their natural lives behind bars.

The deeper question of not having people turn to crime in the first place involves raising our children to higher standards, providing more economic opportunities, and taking many petty laws off the books. It's one thing to have laws against murder or rape or robbery, quite another to criminalize many things which aren't necessarily harmful to others. Our drug laws are a great example. Provided you're an adult, you should be free to use any substance you want no matter it's effects on you. If you happen to commit real crimes while high on something, then there are laws to deal with that already.

Sure, this is a highly complex issue, but crime can be dealt with better. There have been societies in the past where murder and robbery was practically unknown. Maybe we should look at what they did. I suspect most of the reason was how they brought up their children. Today's society glamorizes violence in movies and covets wealth. Both things lead to antisocial behavoir, even among law-abiding citizens. In a society where someone's standing was based more on their knowledge and usefulness, rather than their net worth, there would be a lot less crime. Maybe a good start might just be stressing cooperation instead of competition in schools.
 

daveman

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Messages
911
I think hard labor should suffice. Not just in China, but the way it was here in the U.S. not so long ago... don't we need a couple of new freeways here in California?
 

RadarGreg

Enlightened
Joined
May 10, 2002
Messages
453
Location
Bamberg
Ah, the Singapore utopia. Sure, you can lop off a hand for petty crimes, or take a cane to someone for vandalism, but can you get a jury trial of your peer? Nope. Want to express some opinions with your First Amendment Freedom of Speech in Singapore? Forget it. You can end up in prison for Sedition. Perhaps you enjoy your Second Amendment right to own a firearm for sport shooting or home protection. Not in Singapore. Maybe you aren't too keen on your political party's choices this election year. Want to switch sides, or vote for an independent? Singapore gives you one political party choice.

Before you go enjoying seeing all the "stumpies" walking around with a hand missing, or someone caned for a misdemenor crime, think about what else you would be giving up. If it still sounds like the perfect place to live, with no chewing gum on the ground and amputees in abundance, then there are several flights leaving daily from LAX.:ironic:
 

cat

Enlightened
Joined
Jun 24, 2007
Messages
558
Location
South Africa
Sure, this is a highly complex issue, but crime can be dealt with better. There have been societies in the past where murder and robbery was practically unknown. Maybe we should look at what they did. I suspect most of the reason was how they brought up their children. Today's society glamorizes violence in movies and covets wealth. Both things lead to antisocial behavoir, even among law-abiding citizens. In a society where someone's standing was based more on their knowledge and usefulness, rather than their net worth, there would be a lot less crime. Maybe a good start might just be stressing cooperation instead of competition in schools.

+1


"glamorizes violence in movies and covets wealth"

Especially that.
Why is violence glamorized in movies? Who stands to benefit? That needs to be asked, and answered.

Years of jail are for removing the criminal from society. The old, widespread use of prison with hard labourand other austerities is a deterrent, as well as having some sort of "reprogramming" effect.

Amputation of limbs is specific to Islamic law of Sharia. For habitual criminals who have not been reformed by jail.


Maybe a good start might just be stressing cooperation instead of competition in schools.

Not likely, in competitive consumer capitalist societies, irreligious societies.
 

daveman

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Messages
911
Freedom of speech, baby. We can glamorize or covet whatever the heck we want to death in the U.S.. Educate our youth with violence and porn, save them from the vices of Biblical principles, all in the name of free speech. As long as we're a democracy, all is justified. I wonder what we'll tell ourselves the day when an authoritarian country whose name begins with a capital C overtakes us as the super power of the world.
"It must be luck, our democratic ways and freedom of speech means our ways must be superior."
 

geepondy

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 15, 2001
Messages
4,896
Location
Massachusetts
Why can't you have the first, second and other rights of the US but still impose much more harsher penalties for the committed crimes? I think they are independent issues.

Ah, the Singapore utopia. Sure, you can lop off a hand for petty crimes, or take a cane to someone for vandalism, but can you get a jury trial of your peer? Nope. Want to express some opinions with your First Amendment Freedom of Speech in Singapore? Forget it. You can end up in prison for Sedition. Perhaps you enjoy your Second Amendment right to own a firearm for sport shooting or home protection. Not in Singapore. Maybe you aren't too keen on your political party's choices this election year. Want to switch sides, or vote for an independent? Singapore gives you one political party choice.

Before you go enjoying seeing all the "stumpies" walking around with a hand missing, or someone caned for a misdemenor crime, think about what else you would be giving up. If it still sounds like the perfect place to live, with no chewing gum on the ground and amputees in abundance, then there are several flights leaving daily from LAX.:ironic:
 

Coop

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 6, 2006
Messages
2,199
Location
Tilburg, the Netherlands (perfectly reachable by U
Why can't you have the first, second and other rights of the US but still impose much more harsher penalties for the committed crimes? I think they are independent issues.

+1

I wish for a country with the dutch social security system, the rights and taxes of the US and the penalties for convicted criminals as found in singapore and the like. Oh, and the speedlimits of the german autobahn.
 

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
7,505
Location
Flushing, NY
Freedom of speech, baby. We can glamorize or covet whatever the heck we want to death in the U.S.. Educate our youth with violence and porn, save them from the vices of Biblical principles, all in the name of free speech. As long as we're a democracy, all is justified.
That's actually the problem these days-very loose interpretation of the meaning of free speech. The First Amendment was made to protect the right of the people to criticize their government. As such, it was implicit that such a right would not be abused. Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, or "bomb" in an airport, are most certainly not rights afforded to citizens. Things which aren't speech, such as parading around naked on 5th Avenue, aren't covered at all here, either. And something is seriously amiss when we use the First Amendment to prevent closing of strip clubs. We should be able to regulate things the majority find offensive, especially if they are proven to have other negative effects. Unfortunately, thanks to individuals with way too much time on their hands bringing silly constitutional challenges, we're constantly subject to a barrage of vulgar or violent garbage courtesy of the media.

I wonder what we'll tell ourselves the day when an authoritarian country whose name begins with a capital C overtakes us as the super power of the world.
I might actually praise that day. The country you're refering to actually has the same economic freedom we do. In time I suspect they will have most of our political freedoms. What they probably won't allow, ever, is the constant torrent of counterculture garbage we have here. And guess what? Nothing would make me happier than not having to see commercials for strip clubs or Viagra while I'm watching TV at night.
 

spoonrobot

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
396
We should be able to regulate things the majority find offensive, especially if they are proven to have other negative effects.

Thinking like that is why this country is a representative republic and not a democracy.


Nothing would make me happier than not having to see commercials for strip clubs or Viagra while I'm watching TV at night.

Viagra commercials are offensive? I can't imagine how much you'd like to see lamps getting eaten up by lions then.
 

kelmo

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Aug 27, 2004
Messages
3,092
Location
Sacramento
It's called the "Constitution!"

The Bill of Rights is there to protect us against excessive punishment. Now in theory the Singapore system is great. But common man, 750 Singapore dollars and 6 whacks of a bamboo cane for chewing gum in public (my apologies to the Singaporian's out there if I got this wrong)?!

If we continue to live in fear of the 911 Boogy-man we will be that police state that cuts off the hands of thieves sooner than you think.

Don't get me wrong, I've been to Singapore and it is truely a friendly beautiful place. But they don't call their leader the Benevalent Dictator for nothing.

It works for them. It will not work for us.

Freedom Baby! Freedom!
 
Last edited:

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
7,505
Location
Flushing, NY
Viagra commercials are offensive? I can't imagine how much you'd like to see lamps getting eaten up by lions then.
Yeah, they are, in much the same way that commercials for poor bowel movement or excessive urination are. I *don't* like to be constantly reminded of basic bodily functions while I'm watching TV, especially when the same Viagra commercial repeats three times in a program. Truth is I don't like commercials at all, but those for normal products like iPods or cars are at least tolerable.
 

jtr1962

Flashaholic
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Messages
7,505
Location
Flushing, NY
The Bill of Rights is there to protect us against excessive punishment. Now in theory the Singapore system is great. But common man, 750 Singapore dollars and 6 whacks of a bamboo cane for chewing gum in public (my apologies to the Singaporian's out there if I got this wrong)?!
Such as system would work here with one caveat. You need to get laws for petty, often harmless, "crimes" off the books and not make new ones. I'm referring to things like jaywalking, sidewalk cycling, etc. Once you're left with laws against only real crimes like robbery, rape, or murder, then you go with a draconian system of punishment, reform, and banishment (for hopeless criminals). You're right, a $750 dollar fine and 6 whacks is ridiculous for chewing gum. A law against chewing gum is ridiculous, period. The criteria for making something a illegal should be be if the action is harmful the majority of times it is performed, not if it might be only 1 time in 100 or 1000. On those criteria, we would probably end up repealing laws against drugs, prostitution, statuatory rape, plus a bunch of others. The idea is that a society with fewer laws, basically only those laws which are 100% necessary, has the most freedom, and works the best. Singapore sounds like a real-life version of that politically correct society in Demolition Man. I remember from the movie there were laws against cursing, swearing, harmful foods like salt or fat, etc. What an awful place, but apparently the people living there were happy because violent crime didn't exist, and more importantly they didn't know anything different.
 

daveman

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 13, 2006
Messages
911
...The country you're refering to actually has the same economic freedom we do. In time I suspect they will have most of our political freedoms.
That'll be the day I mourn for their demise. Political freedom, just like television, is an illusion to distract the masses from reality.
 

VidPro

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
5,441
Location
Lost In Space
i would hate to be the person who got Conned, and had something Planted on me.
with the wrong system, to destroy anyone all you have to do is a few tricks, to make them LOOK like they are the guilty ones.
how would you like it if some mafia dude plants YOUR DNA at a murder scene, and in the Public stoning that night, you go down for what some crafty criminal did to YOU?

the system sucks, but i can think of worse things.

of course if anyone would like to plant a $100,000 bribe into my freezer, Pm me for the address :)
 
Last edited:
Top