Large variation between the led brightness in my two A2's?

I just purchased two Surefire A2 Aviators, both with red leds. The first one had a great red beam; no rings and a very bright output. Easily bright enough to walk around with outside at night. It is actually brighter than my Kroma with the red leds on high. The second one I just purchased has a terrible ringy, very dim led output. At least 1/2 if not 1/3 of the output of my other A2. This one appears (by the packaging) to be a little older than the first one.

Is this common? Is there anything I can do about it?

You could always give SF a ringy and see if they'll take a look at it. You'll have to ship it to them, but they might take care of you. BTW...the KROMA's have 3mm LED's while the A2's have 5mm so it's reasonable for the A2 to be brighter.

- Chris

Definately call Surefire customer service (you should have better luck than emailing them). Tell them how dim and unsatisfactory the leds are. I would tell them about you having other A2's and that this one is much dimmer and nowhere near the performance of the others. They should be able to help you, but they will probably want you to send it in to them.

I just gave them a call and they said they would be happy to take a look at it. Surefire customer support really is great.

I compared the reflectors on the two and they are definitely different. The "good" one is more shiny and the texture looks different. Also, the LEDs look different in the center. The "bad" one's leds look darker in the center than in the "good" one. It appears to me that they made some sort of change between the two models I have.

One thing I did notice was the incan beam on the "good" one has a bit of a dark spot in the middle while the "bad" one does not (this is just by shining it on a wall). I wonder if the "bad" one will prove to have a better incan beam?

Just curious....Were these both purchased new? If not, any chance one is an Aviatrix or otherwise modified? Just curious as every beam shot I have seen of A2 red LEDs showed more of a spot beam with rings, and definitely not comparable in quality to the output of a Kroma on high.

Again, I am working only off of the beam shots I have seen posted. I do not own red A2. I'd just hate to see you send one in for repair and have them find a modified light.

GreySave said:

Just curious....Were these both purchased new? If not, any chance one is an Aviatrix or otherwise modified? Just curious as every beam shot I have seen of A2 red LEDs showed more of a spot beam with rings, and definitely not comparable in quality to the output of a Kroma on high.

Again, I am working only off of the beam shots I have seen posted. I do not own red A2. I'd just hate to see you send one in for repair and have them find a modified light.

Click to expand...

Both were purchased brand new, within a week of each other, at the same store. The display model I looked at before I bought the first one exhibited a beam more like my "bad" one, but I attributed it to low batteries or ambient lighting after getting the first one.

I was truly suprised with how great the beam was on my "good" one, which is part of the reason I purchased the second one. It seriously is as good as the Kroma on high, but it even has a bit more throw!

Update:

I spoke with Surefire again yesterday evening and the customer support rep said that I should probably send back both of my A2's so that the techs will have something to compare the "dim" one to. I really don't want to do that since really would like to have one of them to use while the other is in the shop.

I really am in a dilemma about what to do. I had purchased one these in anticipation of a trip we are about to take, and now if I send both back I won't have one to take.

Hello Duckhunter,

Simple solution...

Take both on your trip. When you get back, send them off to SureFire.

Tom

SilverFox said:

Hello Duckhunter,

Simple solution...

Take both on your trip. When you get back, send them off to SureFire.

Tom

Click to expand...

Well, not really, because they have already issued a pickup tag to UPS to get them next week. When I spoke with Surefire originally that tech did not mention having to ship back both. At that time I decided to wait until after the trip to issue a pickup tag. But then after looking at the dim one some more I decided to go ahead and send it back, especially since I had a spare. Then when I called back and talked to a different tech, he said I should send both back, and if I didn't go ahead and get him to issue a call tag right then, then it would need a manager's approval if I wanted to do it later. So I was kinda stuck so I told him to go ahead and issue it.

Besides, I really don't want to send back the good A2 at all. I purchased the lights to use and now I won't have either one. Plus at the same time, I purchased a U2 and the tailcap failed and the switch is on backorder, so out of the three I purchased, I will have none if I send both A2's back.

I am not griping about Surefire at all, so don't take any of this as such. Stuff like this happens sometimes, and it happens to every company. They make excellent products, and I have many others that have never had any issues. I am just simply trying to decide what to do.

I am wondering if the "dim" one will be determined to be operating within the proper parameters, especially if I don't send the second on in, too. The "brighter" one looks like it has a slightly different reflector (shinier and the texture is different) and LEDs (they appear more "yellow" in the center) than the "dim" one, so I wonder if it is simply a matter of one being an updated version? If that is the case, then the "dim" one isn't really faulty, but just an older variation. If so, then I don't necessarily think I should send it to Surefire, since they can't be expected to update ever light every time they make improvements. After looking around on CPF, the "dim" in some respects more closely resembles the beamshots of other red A2's. I just don't want to waste Surefire's time and money having to look at it if that is all it is. However, I asked the Surefire tech if any updates had occurred and he said no, and he said both A2's should be equally bright. But they sure look different inside...

Hello Duckhunter,

Well... not so simple after all...

Let's look at this again.

I believe SureFire should have at least one A2 laying around to compare your light to, so just send the dim one back. If it turns out that it is considered "normal," then I would suggest a piece of cellophane tape over the lens of your other one to reduce the brightness...

Tom

I just sent my 4 sider A2 back because the incan seemed like it got lower after the batteries got a little long in the tooth. Surefire has always done right by me.

z282z06 said:

I just sent my 4 sider A2 back because the incan seemed like it got lower after the batteries got a little long in the tooth. Surefire has always done right by me.

Click to expand...

That's normal behaviour for an A2. But it's good service for them to agree to look at it.

Jim Sexton explained this 'low mode' well in his A2 magnum opus thread.

Consider it a 'low battery' warning.

Anyway, when the batteries won't light the incan you still have 20% left on the batteries - the A2 is deliberately configured to leave you a decent reserve this.

Same boat ..sort of.
My A2 is an under performer. It puts out around 1800 lux at one meter. most A2's put out about 1500 Lux at a meter. I fixed this by installing a strion globe. It effectively doubled the A2's output.

Me emitters are not white they are on the white side of purple. I can't believe that SF used such a crappy white emitter.
Should I send it in to SF for fixing?

Yaesumofo

I'd be very upset if I were told to send back both of my lights in your situation.

First, SF will wait for you to take your A2 on your trip.
Second, I assume you've tried new cells or switched the cells from one to the other.
It is possible to get the 5mm leds out of the A2. Are you comfortable switching the led rings of the two lights? Doing so will ensure that it is the LEDs that are underperforming and not some other component in the system. Just what I'd do but really I don't see it "fixing" your problem.

Beyond that you're likely at the mercy of SF customer support.

yaesumofo said:

Same boat ..sort of.
My A2 is an under performer. It puts out around 1800 lux at one meter. most A2's put out about 1500 Lux at a meter. I fixed this by installing a strion globe. It effectively doubled the A2's output.

Me emitters are not white they are on the white side of purple. I can't believe that SF used such a crappy white emitter.
Should I send it in to SF for fixing?

Yaesumofo

Click to expand...

I am assuming that you meant most A2's put out about 2500 lux at a meter. The average lux for the A2 without the leds for the Light Meter Benchmark Testing – CPF style, was 2352, some were higher some lower but none were as low as 1800 lux, though one was close. My A2, prior to changing out my incan bulb, was an underachiever.

Bill

Update:

I ended up sending in the dim flashlight along with a note and comparision pictures between the dim and bright lights. I just got it back today. The LEDs are no different than they were before. Also, a the bulb had a loose base, which I mentioned in the note, and they did nothing about this also. And there was no sort of note inside the package describing what they did or what they found. I am kinda disappointed. :sigh:

I at least would liked to have had a note that said "found to be within specs" or something....

WOW! Thats messed up!!! They didn't call or include a note describing what they did or if it was within specs or something?!?!?!....

I would have asked to speak to another customer service rep. if they wanted me to send both lights back!......like they don't have other A2's to compare it to!
I have always (so far) had great luck with the Surefire Customer service! After having a few small problems with a few of my first lights, they took good care of me, which in turn made me more comfortable in buying more lights. It seems as of late there have been a few more unsatisfied customers than I have heard of than before. I'm sure they do get a few people who are just WAY to picky about their lights, but the least they could do in your situation is include a note descibing what steps were taken and a reason a replacement head or LED ring was not replaced. I currently have a KL5 Head and SR Switch in for repair. It has been at least a month or two. I really liked the tint of the LED on the KL5 and just needed the (+) spring soldered back on, so it is there for repair. At this point I'm gonna call and tell them to just replace it and hopefully the tint/donut hole will be good on the replacement.

I REALLY hope Surefire customer service doesn't go down the tubes....its one of the top reasons I purchase so many of their lights!

DaFABRICATA said:

WOW! Thats messed up!!! They didn't call or include a note describing what they did or if it was within specs or something?!?!?!....

I would have asked to speak to another customer service rep. if they wanted me to send both lights back!......like they don't have other A2's to compare it to!
I have always (so far) had great luck with the Surefire Customer service! After having a few small problems with a few of my first lights, they took good care of me, which in turn made me more comfortable in buying more lights. It seems as of late there have been a few more unsatisfied customers than I have heard of than before. I'm sure they do get a few people who are just WAY to picky about their lights, but the least they could do in your situation is include a note descibing what steps were taken and a reason a replacement head or LED ring was not replaced. I currently have a KL5 Head and SR Switch in for repair. It has been at least a month or two. I really liked the tint of the LED on the KL5 and just needed the (+) spring soldered back on, so it is there for repair. At this point I'm gonna call and tell them to just replace it and hopefully the tint/donut hole will be good on the replacement.

I REALLY hope Surefire customer service doesn't go down the tubes....its one of the top reasons I purchase so many of their lights!

Click to expand...

I have had good luck with their customer service, too, and I don't want anyone to take any of this as me being unsatisfied with their service. They have sent me two replacement tailcaps with no questions asked and they were more than helpful and very willing to take a look at the light. I am fine with the fact they sent back the dim one with no changes being made.

It is my guess they made some "running" improvements to the A2 and that is why one is dimmer than the other. If that is the case, it cannot be expected that they upgrade everyone's light, when they aren't faulty but have just been improved. When comparing the two lights, the LEDs look slightly different and the texture of the reflectors is different. In fact, I asked the rep about this prior to sending it in (because I didn't want to waste Surefire's time and money sending it in if the variation was just because of a running production upgrade), but the rep assured me that no upgrades had been made and they should both be equally bright. But after receiving the light back unchanged, I have to assume that some sort of production changes were made.

I am just curious about what they found, but that is no biggie. I'll probably just call them tomorrow and see if a rep can tell me what they found.

Do a little test yourself. Swap the "good" A2 head for the "bad" one. Now see if there is a corresponding difference in the LED's. Then, if you're skillful, and using JS advice on how to take the LED ring out very carefully, swap LED rings in both heads, and check for a difference. By now you will know if the regulator in the body is causing the LED's to flash brighter, or if the LED rings are different.

Also, try taking the MA02 lamp out of the head in both lights. Now screw the head back on. Turn the tailcap switch to the LED only position, then, slowly continue to screw the tailcap to full on. You should see a minimal change of intensity on the LED's at this point, as the 10 ohm resistor in the tailcap is bypassed and the LED's go into direct drive. I doubt however that this minimal difference matched your claimed marked difference, or I would argue that your tailcap is defective. You see, your LED's, even in direct drive configuration, should not be that bright. Unless they are different LED's, which might be the case.

Some good reading for you

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/107943

On a side note, I am skeptical on your observations. I own a very bright green A2, as well as all other colors. The super bright green A2 could never match my Kroma' beautiful, uniform, and bright red beam on high. At least if you are comparing it to a regular 8 red LED Kroma, as opposed to the 4 red LED Milspec Kroma.

LED61 said:

Do a little test yourself. Swap the "good" A2 head for the "bad" one. Now see if there is a corresponding difference in the LED's. Then, if you're skillful, and using JS advice on how to take the LED ring out very carefully, swap LED rings in both heads, and check for a difference. By now you will know if the regulator in the body is causing the LED's to flash brighter, or if the LED rings are different.

Also, try taking the MA02 lamp out of the head in both lights. Now screw the head back on. Turn the tailcap switch to the LED only position, then, slowly continue to screw the tailcap to full on. You should see a minimal change of intensity on the LED's at this point, as the 10 ohm resistor in the tailcap is bypassed and the LED's go into direct drive. I doubt however that this minimal difference matched your claimed marked difference, or I would argue that your tailcap is defective. You see, your LED's, even in direct drive configuration, should not be that bright. Unless they are different LED's, which might be the case.

Some good reading for you

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/107943

On a side note, I am skeptical on your observations. I own a very bright green A2, as well as all other colors. The super bright green A2 could never match my Kroma' beautiful, uniform, and bright red beam on high. At least if you are comparing it to a regular 8 red LED Kroma, as opposed to the 4 red LED Milspec Kroma.

Click to expand...

I thought about doing a bunch of swapping around with the two, but I first decided to send it back to Surefire before I started messing with anything. Now that they have sent it back with no change, I might at least try swapping heads and tailcaps or something.

As far as your skepticism, check out the thread below (actually part two of the one you linked to me), around the end of page 3. This member (TJx) has had similar findings with his two red A2's. He has posted side by side pics of his "bright" A2 versus his dim one and versus a Kroma. My bright one is at least as good as his, as far as the beam being bright and uniform. It may not be quite as "perfect" as a Kroma but it is dang close.

I think this should clear up your skepticism:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/141876&page=3